Dems version of the stimulus package.

[ElizabethVu]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/23/opinion/23wed1.html?hp

If there is one message above all from this week’s global market turmoil, it is that the White House and Congress need to put aside their political and ideological differences and come up with a sound stimulus plan that helps to restore both confidence and the economy. The best way to do that is with a package that will get money back into the economy as efficiently as possible: bolstered unemployment benefits, more generous food stamps, aid to states and tax rebates that also go to low-income workers who are most likely to spend their extra cash immediately.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/17/business/17fiscal.html

Among the proposals circulating among Democrats are one-time tax rebates to almost all workers; temporary increases in unemployment benefits, food stamps and Medicaid payments; and federal grants to state and local governments.

Does anyone here think that running up the deficit to give more money to the unemployed, increasing food stamps and medicaid, and cutting the amount of taxes to small businesses is going to do anything to the economy? Just because they will spend there money real fast means nothing. They aren't going to stimulate jobs, or provide any lasting economic growth or stability.

 

[HannahBanana]

Since when are jobs the end-all, be-all of existance? Like it or not, not everyone wants to have a job, nor does everyone have to have a job in order to live in this country.

Plus, what about unemployable people, people who cannot afford to go to college, yet who don't have any other marketable skills? Why are you ignoring those people?

 

[ElizabethVu]

Try living without a job, then you'll understand why they're pretty important to an economy. I'm not ignoring any, either. I'm one of those people who can't afford college. Oh well. Do something else. College isn't a right, nor is it even required to have a good life or make money.

 

[HannahBanana]

Try living without a job, then you'll understand why they're pretty important to an economy. I'm not ignoring any, either. I'm one of those people who can't afford college. Oh well. Do something else. College isn't a right, nor is it even required to have a good life or make money.

Plenty of people in this country live without a job. What about the Amish, or what about the homeless?

And since when is education not a right? Do you think it's okay that America's education system is so abysmal, when compared to the education systems of other countries?

 

[Billnew]

Plenty of people in this country live without a job. What about the Amish, or what about the homeless?

And since when is education not a right? Do you think it's okay that America's education system is so abysmal, when compared to the education systems of other countries?

The Amish are some of the hardest working people in our country, they work for themselves, not for a big company.

Which right is education covered in?
1st-free speech/religion, Press,
2nd-Right to own firearms
etc.
Which one has the right to education?

We pay good money for our kids to be educated, but it isn't a right, and it isn't done right either.

 

[HannahBanana]

The Amish are some of the hardest working people in our country, they work for themselves, not for a big company.

Which right is education covered in?
1st-free speech/religion, Press,
2nd-Right to own firearms
etc.
Which one has the right to education?

We pay good money for our kids to be educated, but it isn't a right, and it isn't done right either.

So you're saying that knowledge is something that should only be had by those who can afford it? Since when is knowledge a commodity?

And yes, the Amish do work, but, like you said, they don't work for any companies. They work for themselves. And yet no one makes a fuss about that. So why should anyone make a fuss about other people not working for companies?

 

[Billnew]

So you're saying that knowledge is something that should only be had by those who can afford it? Since when is knowledge a commodity?

And yes, the Amish do work, but, like you said, they don't work for any companies. They work for themselves. And yet no one makes a fuss about that. So why should anyone make a fuss about other people not working for companies?

No, we have decided to provide an education to our children, but it isn't a right.
I support a voucher system, so that no child has to be stuck in a failing school.

Back on topic:
Short term:
We need to stimulate the economy. This means we need to cut taxes, cut taxes on the lower incomes, and you get more money being spent on products. Cut taxes on the rich and they will invest it into expanding business, creating jobs, and buying expensive products.
Medium term:
We need to try to fix the leak that is draining our jobs away.
We need to set up restrictions to prevent over saturation of the housing market, and unsustainable loans.

We need to make goverment live within its means, and establish fair trade with all countries, If they severely restrict our products, then we need to do the same.

Also, the majority of low income and minority, or women can get college assistance for little or no cost to them.
So college isn't out of reach for people wanting to put their mind to it and actually pass the courses.

 

[HannahBanana]

Also, the majority of low income and minority, or women can get college assistance for little or no cost to them.
So college isn't out of reach for people wanting to put their mind to it and actually pass the courses.

What about people who work full-time at a minimum-wage job, and who could not afford to work less hours than they currently do?

 

[ElizabethVu]

What about people who work full-time at a minimum-wage job, and who could not afford to work less hours than they currently do?

Get a different job.

So you're saying that knowledge is something that should only be had by those who can afford it? Since when is knowledge a commodity?

Libraries have all the cheap knowledge one could want.

And yes, the Amish do work, but, like you said, they don't work for any companies. They work for themselves. And yet no one makes a fuss about that. So why should anyone make a fuss about other people not working for companies?

No one said anything about working for companies. I said jobs. The Amish have jobs. It's called farming. Pretty old profession, right up there with turning tricks.

Plenty of people in this country live without a job. What about the Amish, or what about the homeless?

I wouldn't point to the homeless as a model of success.

And since when is education not a rightDo you think it's okay that America's education system is so abysmal, when compared to the education systems of other countries?

It people who think that there is a right to education and to have it provided by the government that has led to our abysmal education system.

 

[HannahBanana]

Get a different job.

What if they can't?

Libraries have all the cheap knowledge one could want.

True. But libraries don't usually have academic-level textbooks.

No one said anything about working for companies. I said jobs. The Amish have jobs. It's called farming. Pretty old profession, right up there with turning tricks.

Do they actually sell the items that they farm, though? In most cases, they do not. So they're not actually contributing to the economy at all.

I wouldn't point to the homeless as a model of success.

Why not? Are homeless people not just as capable of success as any other person is?

It people who think that there is a right to education and to have it provided by the government that has led to our abysmal education system.

Really? Then why are other countries able to offer state-sponsored higher education, and how is that state-sponsored higher education able to rank much higher than American higher education, in terms of quality?

 

[Billnew]

What about people who work full-time at a minimum-wage job, and who could not afford to work less hours than they currently do?

I stopped working to go to school full time. Lived on
grants and loans, No one can get away from minimum wage unless they comit. Commit time to the job your at, or commit time to college, either way, they will get off minimum wage. college will get you away from minimum wage faster then time on the job, as long as you pick the right job.

ElizabethVu
No one said anything about working for companies. I said jobs. The Amish have jobs. It's called farming. Pretty old profession, right up there with turning tricks.

uh, couldn't you have worded it better? Makes the Amish sound like streetwalkers.

 

[HannahBanana]

I stopped working to go to school full time. Lived on
grants and loans, No one can get away from minimum wage unless they comit. Commit time to the job your at, or commit time to college, either way, they will get off minimum wage. college will get you away from minimum wage faster then time on the job, as long as you pick the right job.

So you're saying that people who live from paycheck to paycheck should just say "I don't need to pay for rent, utilities, and groceries. I'm going to go to college instead!"? Do you not see how foolish that would be?

 

[Meshavrischika]

No, we have decided to provide an education to our children, but it isn't a right.
I support a voucher system, so that no child has to be stuck in a failing school.

Back on topic:
Short term:
We need to stimulate the economy. This means we need to cut taxes, cut taxes on the lower incomes, and you get more money being spent on products. Cut taxes on the rich and they will invest it into expanding business, creating jobs, and buying expensive products.
Medium term:
We need to try to fix the leak that is draining our jobs away.
We need to set up restrictions to prevent over saturation of the housing market, and unsustainable loans.

We need to make goverment live within its means, and establish fair trade with all countries, If they severely restrict our products, then we need to do the same.

Also, the majority of low income and minority, or women can get college assistance for little or no cost to them.
So college isn't out of reach for people wanting to put their mind to it and actually pass the courses.

 

[Meshavrischika]

I think the American dream is already in reach for 99% of people if they're willing to work... we should be taking care of the 1% left...

I don't think handouts make a lasting impression... and generally, increase the strain on society as a whole. There ARE some cases where handouts are warranted... but not nearly as much as are already being given out.

We need to rope in our overspending, pork inserting, governmental "leaders".

We need to focus on important things... rather than fluff (i.e. in the city in which i used to live... they built a bike path over the river... when there were much more urgent needs to be addressed and dealt with - fluff)

We need to find reasonable ways to save the environment (ways that do not cost 10 x more than what we're doing now). I'm all for saving the planet, but not at the expense of people being able to live.

We need to stop outsourcing jobs that can be done here. Period.

People need to stop being able to borrow beyond their means. Period.

We need to realize that hard work is what is required to survive and thrive, rather than handouts and a "poor me mentality"

 

[HannahBanana]

We need to realize that hard work is what is required to survive and thrive, rather than handouts and a "poor me mentality"

Just a question: are you counting people with clinical depression as having a "poor me mentality"?

 

[reverend B]

do you honestly think that the people who's manufacturing jobs have been shipped overseas, or have been downsized out of employment, are lazy? this is widespread and huge. 30,000 from GM. 30,000 from ford. and on and on. 99%? i don't think you understand the dire nature of what's going on in this country.

 

[Meshavrischika]

Just a question: are you counting people with clinical depression as having a "poor me mentality"?

I'm bipolar... so no.

 

[Meshavrischika]

do you honestly think that the people who's manufacturing jobs have been shipped overseas, or have been downsized out of employment, are lazy? this is widespread and huge. 30,000 from GM. 30,000 from ford. and on and on. 99%? i don't think you understand the dire nature of what's going on in this country.

like i said, stop outsourcing. that would nix that problem in the rear. my aunt is in michigan. i get it. but there are other jobs and ways of changing professions, even late in life. it is not out of reach. really.

 

[HannahBanana]

I'm bipolar... so no.

Good, I'm glad. I myself have clinical depression, so I was about to get pretty mad at you if you admitted that that was what you meant. Glad to hear that it wasn't, though.

 

[Meshavrischika]

Good, I'm glad. I myself have clinical depression, so I was about to get pretty mad at you if you admitted that that was what you meant. Glad to hear that it wasn't, though.

my mom does too (depression). i feel ya.