ZacharyB

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... the Holy Spirit does a lot of things but I do not know that the Holy Spirit testifies to the person that they do not have eternal security in salvation, if that is what you are saying.
Yes, this is certainly the case!
For those of us who "see" the dire warnings for what they are ...
"see" that salvation can be lost for several different reasons.
As I have shared before ...
IMO, a believer should be able to see this just from reading, and therefore,
I'm not sure IF a revelation from the Holy Spirit is a necessity in everyone's case.

I actually believe that an unbeliever could read and see the warnings!
Thus and therefore, IMO ...
-- some believers are spiritually blind to these warnings for some reason
-- some believers just refuse to see and acknowledge the truth
 
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nobdysfool

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Yes, this is certainly the case!
For those of us who "see" the dire warnings for what they are ...
"see" that salvation can be lost for several different reasons.
As I have shared before ...
IMO, a believer should be able to see this just from reading, and therefore,
I'm not sure IF a revelation from the Holy Spirit is a necessity in everyone's case.

I actually believe that an unbeliever could read and see the warnings!
Thus and therefore, IMO ...
-- some believers are spiritually blind to these warnings for some reason
-- some believers just refuse to see and acknowledge the truth


And it could be that YOU are blind in not seeing that you are arguing for and raising (or attempting to raise) all sorts of worry and angst over something that a true Christian is not in danger of. Have you ever considered that possibility? Yours is a negative message, whereas the Gospel is a positive one.
 
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brotherjerry

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Yes, this is certainly the case!
For those of us who "see" the dire warnings for what they are ...
"see" that salvation can be lost for several different reasons.
As I have shared before ...
IMO, a believer should be able to see this just from reading, and therefore,
I'm not sure IF a revelation from the Holy Spirit is a necessity in everyone's case.

I actually believe that an unbeliever could read and see the warnings!
Thus and therefore, IMO ...
-- some believers are spiritually blind to these warnings for some reason
-- some believers just refuse to see and acknowledge the truth
Funny...I am not seeing you post any Scripture to support what you said. And here you claim to post all sorts of Scripture....Must be that invisible font I have heard about :)
 
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ZacharyB

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Okay, so you boys 'n gals want me to post the 100 warnings that you are blind to.
If you have been blind to them in the past, is that likely to change?
However, if you insist on wasting Forum space ... I will list them again.
It's a simple copy and paste.

Der is, however, a pre-requisite to "seeing" these dire warnings!
Which is ... an OPEN mind and heart to spiritual Truth.
Which means ... trashing all of your "doctrines of men".
Is this possible for you?

P.S. I entered this fray years ago with NO pre-conceived ideas !!!
I was totally and completely OPEN to being taught by the Lord.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Okay, so you boys 'n gals want me to post the 100 warnings that you are blind to.
No. We'd like to see just ONE verse that plainly speaks about the possibility of loss of salvation.

I guarantee that none of your 100 warning passages even speaks of losing salvation.

So, just one verse that does will suffice.

P.S. I entered this fray years ago with NO pre-conceived ideas !!!
I was totally and completely OPEN to being taught by the Lord.
But not now, obviously.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Yes, this is certainly the case!
For those of us who "see" the dire warnings for what they are ...
"see" that salvation can be lost for several different reasons.
I'm glad to see the word 'see' in quotes, since there are no verses that tell us that our salvation can be lost. So yes, those who "see" loss of salvation are "seeing" things for sure.
 
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brotherjerry

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Zach...please...please practice what you preach. Keep an open mind. Be willing to take on discussion. If you are not willing to listen, or not willing to have an open conversation on the topics. Then don't waste time. You have started dozens of threads all claiming the same thing and when people ask honest questions you ignore it or claim they are trying to trap you or some nonsense. When people bring up errors in your interpretations or alternate interpretations you do not even consider them, and at times you lash out with vitriol.

So if you expect people to have an open mind...you better also come prepared to have an open mind.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Yes, this is certainly the case!
For those of us who "see" the dire warnings for what they are ...
"see" that salvation can be lost for several different reasons.
As I have shared before ...
IMO, a believer should be able to see this just from reading, and therefore,
I'm not sure IF a revelation from the Holy Spirit is a necessity in everyone's case.

I actually believe that an unbeliever could read and see the warnings!
Thus and therefore, IMO ...
-- some believers are spiritually blind to these warnings for some reason
-- some believers just refuse to see and acknowledge the truth
Would you share the scripture that has lead you to these ideas? Thanks.
 
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ToBeLoved

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But if someone has received the true doctrine from Jesus and knows for sure they are right then they cannot have an "open mind." They know they have the truth and have no need that any man teach them.
I believe that this attitude is a real negative when growing in Jesus Christ. None of us should or can 'know that we are right'? The Holy Spirit is consistantly revealing new revelation to us as we grow in sanctification. For someone to think they know it all, is not a humble attitude. The Lord will make the first the last and the last the first. We are all servants of Jesus Christ. Servants serve,
 
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brotherjerry

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But if someone has received the true doctrine from Jesus and knows for sure they are right then they cannot have an "open mind." They know they have the truth and have no need that any man teach them.
I can understand and respect that idea. But how is anyone to know for certain that the "true doctrine" he, or you, speak of is from Jesus? I can make the same claim that my doctrine of eternal security comes from Jesus as well. Do you honestly believe that Christ would give two different people, two different doctrines? No the Bible says we should be of like mind, so that notion is really not true. Which is why the Bible was provided to us, and the Bible says that is why it was provided to us :) To teach, edification of the saints, and to know that we have eternal life.

So if we both feel we have been given the true doctrine from Christ then we must also believe the other is either lying, deceived, or delusional. And if we both feel this way, then by definition we must also accept that the one of us that is either lying, deceived, or delusional is ourselves. That being the case then any discussion we enter into about the topic...had best be with an open mind to better make the determination of which one is incorrect.

And if one of us is unwilling to do that, then what is the point in having the discussion in the first place? Specially if the one who is unwilling to do that does not approach things with a spirit of education but instead goes about things confrontational, accusatory, rude, and outright disrespectful at time? Which by the way is not very Christlike or a very Biblical approach.
 
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nobdysfool

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But if someone has received the true doctrine from Jesus and knows for sure they are right then they cannot have an "open mind." They know they have the truth and have no need that any man teach them.

If someone thinks he has received the true doctrine from Jesus, but then attempts to present it with an attitude that is clearly not Christ-like, the hearer has EVERY right to question whether Jesus is the true source of the doctrine. Period.

Attempting to browbeat others into acceptance of whatever doctrine is not the Christian way to go about it. Jesus didn't argue with anyone. Such tactics smack of pride, self-worship, and insecurity. It is also a sign of immaturity. Claiming that your audience are apostates, unsaved, blind, or any of several other pejoratives that have been used, is not persuasion, it is bullying.
 
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nobdysfool

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But when Jesus does it, no, right? He called people all those things. Mostly he didn't argue with people though. Paul did, however. Paul also called people names.

trying to justify poor tactics. Not fooled...

Nobody is trying to force you to accept anything. We are just Scripturally speaking the truth. It is up to you to receive it.

I never tell people the "just receive Jesus, he has a wonderful plan for your life" noise. When we proclaim the truth to people we have to do what Jesus did, make sure to let them know the cost and to make sure they count it.

"Nobody is trying to force you to accept anything" Yeah, right. Just trying to bully people into it, that's all.
 
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brotherjerry

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Did True Science really use the phrase "to let them know the cost and to make sure they count it"?!

The wages (cost) of sin is death (Romans 6:23). Christians have been bough with a price (1 Corinthians 6:20). That price was Christ, for He died for sins once and for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to the death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit (1 Peter 3:18)

There is no "cost" for you or I...Jesus paid that price. He paid it with His blood. That is why we should fall at His feet and worship Him, not because we have to "count" anything, but because Christ has already done that for us.

True Science, my brother, when you talk like this you make Christ's sacrifice something done in vain as Paul warns in 1 Corinthians 15:3 "For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to Scripture"

My brother I would urge you to be of open mind and re-examine what you think you know is truth. Your salvation is not at stake, but Christ has so much more in store for you when you quit "counting" what you feel is the cost and realize He paid the cost, it is now time to spread that good news.
 
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