[deleted]

[True Science]

[deleted]

 

[ZacharyB]

I say if your salvation doesn't free you from your bondage to sin,
in actual reality, not just forensically, then that is not a real salvation.
Romans 6; John 8; 2 Peter 2

Then you say correctly ... keep up the good work!
Seems you actually understand what Paul is saying in Romans 6 ...
Wow, I'm impressed that you have joined the infitesimally small group of believers.

 

[True Science]

[deleted]

 

[FreeGrace2]

Some might say that unless it is OSAS it is not true security.

Well, there is certainly no security in the insecurity crowd, aka anti-OSAS crowd. They believe that if they themselves fsall into a sinful lifestyle, they will lose their own salvation.

The issue in salvation isn't about sin. It's about where one will live in eternity. And God has promised and sealed those who believe in Christ for the day of redemption.

Well to that nonsense I laugh at as a typical worldly have your cake and eat it too gospel, and then I say if your salvation doesn't free you from your bondage to sin, in actual reality, not just forensically, then that is not a real salvation.

Romans 6; John 8; 2 Peter 2

It is clear that whatever group led you to that silly view of OSAS (that one is free to sin without any consequences) were in gross error.

The comment about "having and eating your cake" does NOT represent free grace theology or Calvinism, even while both systems are in contrast with each other.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Then you say correctly ... keep up the good work!
Seems you actually understand what Paul is saying in Romans 6 ...
Wow, I'm impressed that you have joined the infitesimally small group of believers.

Well, there may be a completely other reason by that group is so small.

 

[FreeGrace2]

YES! You are a slave to WHOM YOU OBEY! And Jesus said there is no half and half. you can't serve two masters. So that effectively nullifies their doctrine that says righteous people both do right and sin.

Free grace theology teaches this as well. But there is NOTHING in Rom 6 about losing salvation. In fact, Paul ends the chapter with the fact that eternal life is a free gift of God (v.23). Then, in Rom 11:29 he wrote that God's gifts and calling are irrevocable. And between those 2 verses, Paul does NOT define or describe anything else as a gift of God.

Therefore, eternal life is irrevocable. But those who do not understand (or like) grace will vigorously try to disconnect Rom 6:23 from Rom 11:29. But they cannot be disconnected.

Hence, OSAS.

The underlying problem of those who are anti-OSAS just cannot stand the thought of any of God's children who are rebellious staying saved and going to heaven. Kind of like the older brother of the prodigal son.

 

[ZacharyB]

YES! You are a slave to WHOM YOU OBEY! And Jesus said there is no half and half. you can't serve two masters. So that effectively nullifies their doctrine that says righteous people both do right and sin.

Does it take some kind of incredible genius to read Romans 6 (for example)
and actually understand what it is saying???
Or, does it take some honesty to accept the Truth of what is clearly written???
Or, does it take a special revelation from the Holy Spirit to see the Truth???

I see people of all 3 persuasions in vogue here (no, everywhere).

 

[True Science]

[deleted]

 

[nobdysfool]

YES! You are a slave to WHOM YOU OBEY! And Jesus said there is no half and half. you can't serve two masters. So that effectively nullifies their doctrine that says righteous people both do right and sin.

Do YOU sin? Or are you perfect in all your ways, and living in sinless perfection?

 

[True Science]

[deleted]

 

[True Science]

[deleted]

 

[ZacharyB]

But there is NOTHING in Rom 6 about losing salvation.
In fact, Paul ends the chapter with the fact that
eternal life is a free gift of God (v.23).

You are totally blind about all of Romans 6.

3 times in 8 verses (6:16--6:23) ...
Paul warns the Roman Christians:
Sin results in eternal death!

And he wuzn't talking about unbelievers
(he wuz talking to them -- about them).

Romans 6:23 means:
Those who choose wisely (no, obediently) to be
slaves of obedience, righteousness, holiness, etc.
end their lives by receiving the free gift of God's grace,
no, keeping God's free gift of God's grace!
(think I'll copyright this one)

 

[patrick jane]

You are totally blind about all of Romans 6.

3 times in 8 verses (6:16--6:23) ...
Paul warns the Roman Christians:
sin results in eternal death!

And he wuzn't talking about unbelievers (he wuz talking about them).

Romans 6:23 means:
Those who choose wisely (no, obediently) to be
slaves to obedience, righteousness, holiness, etc.
end their lives by receiving the free gift of God's grace,
no, keeping God's free gift of God's grace!
(think I'll copyright this one)

Hey ZacharyB !! I know you from TOL !!

 

[ZacharyB]

Hey ZacharyB !! I know you from TOL !!

Gee, ain't you just the whiz bang genius!

 

[patrick jane]

Gee, ain't you just the whiz bang genius!

yeah, your posts are terrible here too, whiz

 

[Soyeong]

The Bible speaks of salvation in the past, present, and future tense. We have been saved from the penalty of our sins, we are being saved from practicing sin, and we will be saved from God's wrath on the day of the Lord. Our salvation from sin necessarily involves being freed from our bondage to sin.

 

[patrick jane]

Romans 6:5 - Romans 6:6 - Romans 6:7-9 - Romans 6:10-11 - Romans 6:12-13 - Romans 6:14-23

 

[FreeGrace2]

Just because one does or doesn't do something doesn't mean it isn't true. A smoker telling you smoking is bad and you shouldn't do it and can quite if you put your mind to it is still telling you true and good info even though they themselves smoke.

I am not yet saved. So I am not sinless yet.

If that's your goal, then you've never be saved. You've FAILED to accept the work of Christ on the cross on your behalf, who already died for all your sins. That's the ONLY way to be saved.

But I do not trust in a false hope and just wallow in my filthy rags in some false assurance.

Those who don't believe God's promises certainly will be lost.

I realize I must truly fully repent to be righteous and saved, I must depart from all iniquity.

Never happen on this earth. The Bible teaches that we're all sinners. And there are NO VERSES that teach that we can achieve sinless perfection. Only Jesus Christ was sinless in His humanity. Which is the ONLY REASON He was qualified to take your and my place on the cross to die and pay for all our sins. Only faith in Him will result in receiving eternal life and salvation.

Your system is not found in Scripture.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The prodigal son wasn't saved until he got himself out of the pig pen and went home. His father said that he was dead that whole time till he repented and then he was made alive. Sinners are dead to God, dead. Romans 8 says if "we" (true saved believers according to the context) live after the flesh (sin) we will die, not just physically either.

The son was always the son in that parable. He never lost his sonship. The parable isn't about getting or recovering salvation. It's about fellowship, which is also the subject of 1 John 1.

It is not just that we cannot stand the illogical and immoral doctrine, but that the Scriptures explicitly refute the notion.

No one has yet refuted the biblical doctrine of eternal security. Disagreed with, rejected, and hated, yes, but refuted? Nope. Not ever.

Eternal life is a free gift of God (Rom 6:23). And God's gifts are irrevocable (Rom 11:29).

 

[FreeGrace2]

You are totally blind about all of Romans 6.

Your opinion, though totally wrong, is noted.

3 times in 8 verses (6:16--6:23) ...
Paul warns the Roman Christians:
Sin results in eternal death!

And he wuzn't talking about unbelievers
(he wuz talking to them about them).

Please cite and quote the verses that contain the word "eternal" in them. Just for accuracy.

Romans 6:23 means:
Those who choose wisely (no, obediently) to be
slaves of obedience, righteousness, holiness, etc.
end their lives by receiving the free gift of God's grace,
no, keeping God's free gift of God's grace!
(think I'll copyright this one)

Don't bother. It isn't what that verse means at all. We KNOW how one receives eternal life: which is through faith.

Here's the Biblical proof of that:
John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

How many verses are there that actually and plainly SAY that one can lose their salvation or eternal life? None.

The view of loss of salvation doesn't have a leg to stand on. I guess that means those who hold to that view need to get on their knees.