Deeply Disturbing Concerns

[~Anastasia~]

Well, if its any consolation i took the expression from a song, i think pearl jam maybe? Its not one of my originals.

Forgive me. I am a more visual person. I tend to imagine everything I read.

And it didn't mesh well with my image of Orthodoxy.

As I said, I believe I misunderstood your actual intent. I just didn't want others to do so as well, and for it to appear that all of TAW agreed with what I was imagining.

Peace to you.

 

[RileyG]

Yup better off, I dont want to see any cartoon (or any other genre for that matter) where guys are sodomizing each other, let alone the figure inscribed with the holy name. And even with such vulgarities we restrained ourselves and now many are blaming christianity for the attacks. The same Christianity whose adherents gave them freedom of speech!

And thats evidence enough to distance ourselves from the establishment, as that establishment has retreated from our values. We must become anti-establishment.

Eeeek! I do not even like reading that ***shudder***

 

[dzheremi]

This is why I am hesitant at all this "Je suis Charlie" stuff. I don't stand for what they do. I think they're vile. I don't believe anyone deserves to die for the cartoons whether about Islam or Christianity or any religion (I think it would be a bigger sin to deprive them of the opportunity for repentance by taking away their lives), but I likewise don't identify with a bunch of open, unrepentant blasphemers who draw filth and parade it around as the ultimate statement of "freedom of speech". I do believe that free speech is to protect the speech that we don't like, but I think that's something different than identifying with the people that do it. I am disturbed that the poles of today's western societies (not just the USA, where I live) are either you're with the blasphemers (the cartoonists)...or the blasphemers (the Islamic jihadists). It's the same garbage, just different methods (pen v. sword). The Qur'an, hadith, and sira are also full of blasphemy, garbage, and filth.

So...yeah, not a lot of good options for people who are not happy in the current climate. Perhaps that's what inspires the jihadists in their war against the west, too. I don't know. But it does stink. Satan does control this world. The only difference is whether you identify doing his work with serving God as the Islamists do or with "freedom" as much of the rest of the world does.

 

[buzuxi02]

We need to turn this around and frame the situation our way. Simply this is not our fight. Its between the secular humanists (the hebdoists) and the Islamists(saracens). Two groups that historically promote freedom of speech only when they agree with it. We have to distance ourselves from this fight.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I must say, I agree, buz.

We need to turn this around and frame the situation our way. Simply this is not our fight. Its between the secular humanists (the hebdoists) and the Islamists(saracens). Two groups that historically promote freedom of speech only when they agree with it. We have to distance ourselves from this fight.

 

[Nik0s]

This is why I am hesitant at all this "Je suis Charlie" stuff. I don't stand for what they do. I think they're vile. I don't believe anyone deserves to die for the cartoons whether about Islam or Christianity or any religion (I think it would be a bigger sin to deprive them of the opportunity for repentance by taking away their lives), but I likewise don't identify with a bunch of open, unrepentant blasphemers who draw filth and parade it around as the ultimate statement of "freedom of speech". I do believe that free speech is to protect the speech that we don't like, but I think that's something different than identifying with the people that do it. I am disturbed that the poles of today's western societies (not just the USA, where I live) are either you're with the blasphemers (the cartoonists)...or the blasphemers (the Islamic jihadists). It's the same garbage, just different methods (pen v. sword). The Qur'an, hadith, and sira are also full of blasphemy, garbage, and filth.

I feel the same exact way my friend. The cartoonists and board members did not deserve to be murdered in cold blood in the name of "God," but I have always disliked their tasteless cartoons and this changes nothing. Islam and the Atheistic Western society of the 21st century are both poisonous ideologies.

So...yeah, not a lot of good options for people who are not happy in the current climate. Perhaps that's what inspires the jihadists in their war against the west, too. I don't know. But it does stink. Satan does control this world. The only difference is whether you identify doing his work with serving God as the Islamists do or with "freedom" as much of the rest of the world does.

Exactly, +rep!
Islamic fundamentalism and the current Western secular culture are 2 sides of the same coin.

 

[ArmyMatt]

We need to turn this around and frame the situation our way. Simply this is not our fight. Its between the secular humanists (the hebdoists) and the Islamists(saracens). Two groups that historically promote freedom of speech only when they agree with it. We have to distance ourselves from this fight.

amen to that

 

[MoreCoffee]

Perhaps the OCA priests have pastoral concerns about homosexual people in their congregations that motivate them to think about ways and means of making their church welcoming. Same sex marriage recognition is primarily a moral issue and individual parishes and diocese cannot make changes to the Church's moral teaching thus making acceptance of same-sex marriage something they do not have the power to do. But pastoral concerns can make priests and bishops choose with less vision and wisdom than one ought to have in matters like same sex marriages. So I am wondering how does one bring the mistaken bishops back to orthodoxy on this issue?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Perhaps the OCA priests have pastoral concerns about homosexual people in their congregations that motivate them to think about ways and means of making their church welcoming. Same sex marriage recognition is primarily a moral issue and individual parishes and diocese cannot make changes to the Church's moral teaching thus making acceptance of same-sex marriage something they do not have the power to do. But pastoral concerns can make priests and bishops choose with less vision and wisdom than one ought to have in matters like same sex marriages. So I am wondering how does one bring the mistaken bishops back to orthodoxy on this issue?

sorry but you cannot be welcoming in the right way without the Truth. Truth and love are the same Person, so you cannot have one without the other. if Christianity is true, then the loving thing to do is tell homosexuals to stop and not condone that behavior. not to turn them away flat out, but to call sin what it is: sin.

 

[MoreCoffee]

sorry but you cannot be welcoming in the right way without the Truth. Truth and love are the same Person, so you cannot have one without the other. if Christianity is true, then the loving thing to do is tell homosexuals to stop and not condone that behavior. not to turn them away flat out, but to call sin what it is: sin.

Yes, but ... I am wondering how does one bring the mistaken bishops back to orthodoxy on this issue?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Yes, but ... I am wondering how does one bring the mistaken bishops back to orthodoxy on this issue?

you have a synod and the synod calls them to repent of their error.

 

[MoreCoffee]

you have a synod and the synod calls them to repent of their error.

If a bishop does not then what happens?

 

[ArmyMatt]

If a bishop does not then what happens?

against a synod? he is suspended and if he persists he is deposed.

 

[GregConstantine]

Sorry for being a negative nancy but the OCA synod will not do that, I'm afraid some of their members are compromised.

 

[jckstraw72]

at least half of them are Illuminati. watch them serve Liturgy - you'll see them cover one eye and do that triangle thing with their hands. i think at least one or two bishops have been seen chillin' with Jay-Z and Lady Gaga.

 

[Ignatius21]

at least half of them are Illuminati. watch them serve Liturgy - you'll see them cover one eye and do that triangle thing with their hands. i think at least one or two bishops have been seen chillin' with Jay-Z and Lady Gaga.

 

[GregConstantine]

@ignatius21, don't mind that comment, he's just being a smark aleck

 

[Damaris]

Sorry for being a negative nancy but the OCA synod will not do that, I'm afraid some of their members are compromised.

Until you can present specific allegations and evidence, that is not an appropriate topic of discussion.

On the other hand, the OCA bishops' handling of pastoral abuse is a serious problem. Since people have tried to shut down discussion of this, I hope they are not shocked when people start considering rumors like the above.

 

[GregConstantine]

It would take a long time to write out all the evidence. There are websites devoted to the whole mess that the OCA is in, there one can find some of the evidence.

You are right that discussions about abuse has been shut down many times (I suspect the abuse issue and the homosexual issue are while not the same, are related to each other insofar as how the OCA synod approaches these two issues). It is very disturbing and frankly a sickness in the Church that people shut down any discussions of any wrong doing by the clergy, not just shutting down discussions about it, but actually trying to stop people from taking action, or if they are in a position of power, they ignore the person's complaints and brush them aside, and not take the necessary action.

This is what I was referring to when I mentioned "unhealthy clericalism" that is very prevelent amongst many lay members of the Church. It is a shame because there have been folks who were sincerely abused (physical, verbal, emotionally) by clergy people and have tried to do something about it but were shut down by other lay members.

People please, stop making excuses, for those of you in the OCA, please take whatever action you feel you can take. If this keeps up, I really don't see the OCA being in communion much longer with the rest of Orthodoxy.

If you see or hear anything, please please please document it. I cannot emphasize that enough.

It is not gossipping if you do this.

 

[jckstraw72]

actually, the OCA has the Office of Review of Sexual Misconduct Allegations and one of my best friends is the Coordinator and I know she works quite hard at her job, and off the top of my head I can think of several cases that have been resolved just in the past few months. investigations, spiritual court, etc - these things take time. work is being done whether you see it or not.