Deeply Disturbing Concerns

[jckstraw72]

I am not judging him but this is clearly against the sermon on the mount if true. A Saint cannot overule the word of God himself.

when something in the Tradition seems to contradict, look for the problem in yourself first. Why are you not able to see the inner harmony between Christ and His Saint Whom He illumined? We all have to ask ourselves this first before making hasty judgments against those who bear the mind of Christ.

 

[SeventhValley]

It is one thing to use force to oust a iconoclast breaking icons out of a church that would be allowed. But out in society we are told to turn the other cheek which will heap coals on the heads of our enemy.

 

[Damaris]

Lord Jesus says turn the other cheek. He says to love your enemies.

Killing blasphemers is something Islam dose not Christianity.

Around the same time, a militant group called Boko Haram murdered 2000 villagers in Africa. Maybe those villagers deserved it, though. I wonder what kinds of cartoons they drew? (The last two sentences are sarcastic!)

"Break their mouths" does not justify mass murder. I think St. John's point is that we should silence blasphemers for their own good, that's all. Our tradition still has rules on justifiable force.

 

[GregConstantine]

Thank you Damaris, you are one of the few voices of sanity on this site!

 

[Nik0s]

Outrageous! I'm shocked and dismayed immensely by this, and am fearful of what the future holds for Orthodoxy in America. Christ is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, there can be no compromise on the faith.

 

[jckstraw72]

"Break their mouths" does not justify mass murder. I think St. John's point is that we should silence blasphemers for their own good, that's all. Our tradition still has rules on justifiable force.

we should seek to understand the Fathers, not dismiss. thank you.

 

[SeventhValley]

we should seek to understand the Fathers, not dismiss. thank you.

Ummmm that is exactly what I said.

 

[SeventhValley]

Just read the whole quote from St.John C. On breaking the mouth of those in public.

That one quote (not the Saint we all make mistakes) is heretical.

It dose not follow Jesus example of least amount of force to get people out of a holy site. It dose not follow Jesus turn the other cheek. Jesus rebuked Peter for using violence in public.

It is totally against the tradition of martyrdom started by Christ.

It is no doubt about it heretical.

 

[GregConstantine]

It is not the teaching of the Church that every word that proceeds from the mouth of the saint is infallible.

Let's get back on topic, thanks

 

[buzuxi02]

Ok back on topic, how do we silence those clergy who find it convenient to assimilate and not rock the boat? The only thing I can think of is somehow showing the Orthodox youth that we are the ultimate rebels. Instead of conforming to the world we are sticking our middle fingers at it.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Ok back on topic, how do we silence those clergy who find it convenient to assimilate and not rock the boat? The only thing I can think of is somehow showing the Orthodox youth that we are the ultimate rebels. Instead of conforming to the world we are sticking our middle fingers at it.

I can only hope the gesture you suggest does not have the same meaning to you. I wouldn't like to consider such to be the mindset of Orthodoxy!

I think surely I MUST be misunderstanding. But if that is (hopefully) the case, it probably ought not to stand uncorrected and archived.

 

[Damaris]

Ok back on topic, how do we silence those clergy who find it convenient to assimilate and not rock the boat? The only thing I can think of is somehow showing the Orthodox youth that we are the ultimate rebels. Instead of conforming to the world we are sticking our middle fingers at it.

We don't have to silence them, only speak the truth, and make our voices heard.

 

[buzuxi02]

I can only hope the gesture you suggest does not have the same meaning to you. I wouldn't like to consider such to be the mindset of Orthodoxy!

I think surely I MUST be misunderstanding. But if that is (hopefully) the case, it probably ought not to stand uncorrected and archived.

The younger generation wont respond to what they consider old fashion religion. The gospel has to be presented in a way thats more edgy, more anti-establishment. They need to know that they are in an exclusive club which the establishment are jealous of.

Priests shouldnt speak about accepting gay marriages they should speak about how useless civil marriages are. They shouldnt promote equality of society, they should promote our superiority over the established society.

 

[RileyG]

I'm not surprised at what I read in the top article. Apostasy is creeping in in the Church's body all around the globe, although in different forms.

Here in Bulgaria for example our Patriarch just ordered liturgy for the ones killed in the Charlie Hebdo attack. For this same bunch of blasphemers who desecrated the Holy Trinity and the Theotokos with their sick caricatures and got what they deserved. And to that, who are probably not even baptised Orthodox! He broke the church canon and there are already people sending him a petitional letter for a public repentance of the act. I decided to point this out in this thread since it's a similar issue.

Yikes! I regret searching for the Charlie Hebdo anti-Christian tacts.

Lord, have mercy!

 

[RileyG]

I think, in general, it is the sort of society that we live in. We live in a society that says sex= love, no sex= no love, which is GARBAGE.

Likewise, we are told "if you do not accept everything I do, you hate me/ you are a bigot". It shows how damage much sins, specifically *unrepented sins of the flesh, has done to the soul and mind.

Lastly, our society tells us to find "pleasure" in everything despite its consequences. This is a dangerous road to be on!

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

You're correct---we ARE a feel-good entertainment junkie culture. I must admit that I struggle with this. I am constantly NOT wanting to be "bored" and spend way more time with TV than reading these days, or stuffing my face! We're pretty hedonistic. And you're correct, Riley, about how people see love--totally in an emotional high sort of way. When the "high" of the 'love drug' abates, move on...

I think, in general, it is the sort of society that we live in. We live in a society that says sex= love, no sex= no love, which is GARBAGE.

Likewise, we are told "if you do not accept everything I do, you hate me/ you are a bigot". It shows how damage much sins, specifically *unrepented sins of the flesh, has done to the soul and mind.

Lastly, our society tells us to find "pleasure" in everything despite its consequences. This is a dangerous road to be on!

 

[jckstraw72]

I think surely I MUST be misunderstanding. But if that is (hopefully) the case, it probably ought not to stand uncorrected and archived.

Kylissa, your posts are so refreshing. Thank you!

 

[Boris89]

we ARE a feel-good entertainment junkie culture. I must admit that I struggle with this. I am constantly NOT wanting to be "bored" and spend way more time with TV than reading these days, or stuffing my face! We're pretty hedonistic.

We can only talk about hedonism and apathy when you consider this: In the center of our town, we have a small monastery founded in 1644, one of our martyr saints was hanged there with his grave placed in the courtyard. You'd be mad to not use the opportunity to go there as often as you can and yet we barely gather 20 people at the sunday liturgy (town population numbers around 28 000 and we're talking about a country which has been Orthodox since 863 A.D!). The monastery is 3 minutes from my apartment and last sunday I was actually considering skipping church service for whatever dumb reason came into my head. That is a problem. It was probably my guardian angel who pushed me out of home in the last moment. Compared to you guys in the USA, here in Eastern Europe we'll be judged much severely.. because we have all the Church tradition you can get and yet we do not appreciate it.

 

[buzuxi02]

Yikes! I regret searching for the Charlie Hebdo anti-Christian tacts.

Lord, have mercy!

Yup better off, I dont want to see any cartoon (or any other genre for that matter) where guys are sodomizing each other, let alone the figure inscribed with the holy name. And even with such vulgarities we restrained ourselves and now many are blaming christianity for the attacks. The same Christianity whose adherents gave them freedom of speech!

And thats evidence enough to distance ourselves from the establishment, as that establishment has retreated from our values. We must become anti-establishment.

 

[buzuxi02]

I think surely I MUST be misunderstanding. But if that is (hopefully) the case, it probably ought not to stand uncorrected and archived

Well, if its any consolation i took the expression from a song, i think pearl jam maybe? Its not one of my originals.