Death Penalty

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The Madcap

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Theft does not merit the death penalty but a harsh punishment nonetheless.
You missed my point. I was displaying the flaw of that argument.
The logic of killing those who kill is just.
This logic, whether it's valid or not, is not something the death penalty does 100% of the time.
Of course the death penalty is not the only punishment however it is the only one worthy of a murderer.
Okay, God. Who the hell are you to determine that there are people who do not deserve to live?
 
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Tanakh

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You missed my point. I was displaying the flaw of that argument.This logic, whether it's valid or not, is not something the death penalty does 100% of the time.Okay, God. Who the hell are you to determine that there are people who do not deserve to live?

The argument is not flawed.

The correct question is not who the hell am I but rather who the hell does a criminal think they are to decide who dies.
 
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fragmentsofdreams

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Tell me how the death penalty is moral according to Catholic teaching as practiced in the United States and in the current situation of the United States.

I'm not interested in secular, Jewish, or non-Catholic Christian views on the subject except to the extent they are relevant to Catholic theology. Those who want to discuss them can create a thread in Ethics and Morality. In this thread, I'm not even concerned about whether the death penalty is prudent or moral. I'm curious whether those who demand that others follow the Catechism in every detail can support the death penalty without disagreeing with the Catechism and other relevant documents.
 
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JoabAnias

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I'm not interested in secular, Jewish, or non-Catholic Christian views on the subject except to the extent they are relevant to Catholic theology. Those who want to discuss them can create a thread in Ethics and Morality. In this thread, I'm not even concerned about whether the death penalty is prudent or moral. I'm curious whether those who demand that others follow the Catechism in every detail can support the death penalty without disagreeing with the Catechism and other relevant documents.

What I find odd is that its not justified in how its administered either.

Some of the greatest murderers will be held for life because they can be while there are actual cases of some put on death row being exonerated.

For example; was McVey any worse than Manson?

I do think in some instances the threat of death row can be a tool to bring a felon to repentance though. For that reason alone do I find some debate for having it but its a catch 22. You can't just come out and say, we maintain it to scare criminals straight and never intend to use it. The problem is when it is used for the wrong reasons (which is almost always in our age) the state is playing God by removing an incorrigible threat to society who could repent in time, surely even more plausibly in the amount of time McVey would have had left. And who at the state level really has the where with all to determine if a felon is completely lost to rehabilitation. Yet that is not the consideration of the state, they would rather do it to save a buck, ease the penal system burdens, placate the angry victims, or not do it to study the psychopaths. I don't think the criteria of the Church play a part in the states system one iota. Its simply another aspect of the power structure placing a value judgement on a life.
 
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Tanakh

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Some of the greatest murderers will be held for life because they can be while there are actual cases of some put on death row being exonerated.

For example; was McVey any worse than Manson?

I do think in some instances the threat of death row can be a tool to bring a felon to repentance though. For that reason alone do I find some debate for having it but its a catch 22. You can't just come out and say, we maintain it to scare criminals straight and never intend to use it.

Manson and his "family" did not kill as many as McVeigh but to the victims of people like them the terror they inspire is just as bad as the physical damage they did. Richard Speck is a good example of what prison life can do to a criminal. In the end human nature dictates the criminal mind and thus the use of the justice system because in the end it is based on all of us.
 
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JoabAnias

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The argument is not flawed.

The correct question is not who the hell am I but rather who the hell does a criminal think they are to decide who dies.

Christian teaching is rather clear on the issue.

You cannot take an eye for an eye period unless there is absolutely no other recourse.

Please do not debate Catholic teaching in OBOB.

This is a friendly warning for all visitors to this forum.
 
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Tanakh

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Christian teaching is rather clear on the issue.

You cannot take an eye for an eye period unless there is absolutely no other recourse.

Please do not debate Catholic teaching in OBOB.

This is a friendly warning for all visitors to this forum.

:)
 
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Annolennar

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Tell me how the death penalty is moral according to Catholic teaching as practiced in the United States and in the current situation of the United States.

I live in Texas. The death penalty is moral for the following reasons:

1) Shotguns
2) Liquor
3) Cowboy hats
4) Boots with spurs
5) Chuck Norris (the epitome of Texas lawmen)

I dare anyone to disagree with a state in which buying ammunition, whiskey, and a Bible is a one-stop shopping trip. :p

Disclaimer: It should be noted that the above may, in fact, have been said in jest.
 
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JoabAnias

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I live in Texas. The death penalty is moral for the following reasons:

1) Shotguns
2) Liquor
3) Cowboy hats
4) Boots with spurs
5) Chuck Norris (the epitome of Texas lawmen)

I dare anyone to disagree with a state in which buying ammunition, whiskey, and a Bible is a one-stop shopping trip. :p

Disclaimer: It should be noted that the above may, in fact, have been said in jest.

Love the levity but you left out the govenor. ;)
 
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Annolennar

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Love the levity but you left out the govenor. ;)

The governor is too busy making the state capitol more awesome.

I saw it yesterday and was quite impressed, btw.

Edit: When we saw the statue of Justice standing on the roof, it was too easy to make jokes about "Texas justice". Heh.
 
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JoabAnias

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The governor is too busy making the state capitol more awesome.

I saw it yesterday and was quite impressed, btw.

Edit: When we saw the statue of Justice standing on the roof, it was too easy to make jokes about "Texas justice". Heh.

Its probably just the heat making everyone a bit .... ^_^
 
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The Madcap

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The argument is not flawed.
Great contribution.
The correct question is not who the hell am I but rather who the hell does a criminal think they are to decide who dies.
That question doesn't have to do with what we were talking about.
 
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