Day Of Atonement Typology Relation To The Second Coming Of Christ And The Resurrection (Full Pret.)

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Correct. He will never strike down every living creature again with water. For some reason you ignored the last 4 words in the verse...

Next time, it will be by fire.

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

2Pe 3:11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness,

2Pe 3:12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn!

2Pe 3:13 But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Righteousness did not dwell on the earth after 70 AD.


2Th 1:7 and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels


2Th 1:8 in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

2Th 1:9 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

2Th 1:10 when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed.


Mat_3:11 "I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.


Rev 20:9 And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them,


.

Why was Israel promised everlasting righteous?

In order to properly understand Daniel's prophecy of the arrival of the world of everlasting righteousness, we must understand Daniel, and thus Israel's standing under Torah, the Mosaic Covenant world.

When Daniel wrote, he and Israel, was living under Torah, the law that could not give righteousness. It was under that system that Isaiah lamented, "Justice is turned back, and righteousness stands afar off; truth is fallen in the streets" (Isaiah 59:14), and, "all of our righteousness are like filthy rags" (Isaiah 64:6).

In the Jewish mentality, righteousness was inextricably related to the Torah (Luke 1:6). As a faithful Jew, Paul wrote of the Torah, "If a law could have been given that could have given life, then, verily, righteousness would have been through the Law." (Galatians 3:20-21).

So, living under that system that could never impart righteousness, Daniel was told of a new order when righteousness would be the order of the Day.

Paul spoke of the Torah, written and engraven in stone, as, "the ministration of death" (2 Corinthians 3:6f), because it not only could not give life, but, it made sin abound (Romans 5:20f). And, "sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead" (Romans 7:8). Thus, "I was alive once, without the Law, but the commandment came, sin revived, and I died" (Romans 7:9). As a result, "The commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death" (Romans 7:10). In other words, the Torah was "the strength of sin."

It identified sin.

It accused the sinner.

It made sin abound.

It brought death.

It was the ministration of (the) death.


That means that the goal of Daniel 9 was the New Covenant world of Messiah.

It must be emphasized that the seventy week countdown included the time when the Mosaic Covenant was still in effect. In other words, the Mosaic Covenant as the strength of sin and the ministration of death, would remain valid during the seventy week countdown. But, lying on the horizon, at the climax of the countdown, lay the wonderful New Covenant world of Messiah, the ministration of righteousness and life (2 Corinthians 3:9).

What is the world of everlasting righteousness?

Was Daniel's anticipated world of righteousness a renewal of material creation, the restoration of physical Edenic utopia, or was it the giving of the New Covenant relationship, wherein righteousness was given, where life was possible? Notice the strongly covenantal context of Daniel. The covenantal context cannot be ignored, for in reality, righteousness is a covenantal concept, and is not a matter of rocks and trees. It has to do with man's standing before God, not how green the grass is, or how clean the water is.

Don K Preston
 
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mmksparbud

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Or did the High Priest exiting (or rather the High Priest's second coming) declaring atonement and salvation complete the atonement process?

The Priests showing Himself to be alive after having offered the sacrifice was prove that the sacrifice had been accepted, otherwise, they would have had to pull his body out of the Most Holy Place. Jesus showing Himself alive after His death did the same thing.
 
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The Priests showing Himself to be alive after having offered the sacrifice was prove that the sacrifice had been accepted, otherwise, they would have had to pull his body out of the Most Holy Place. Jesus showing Himself alive after His death did the same thing.


No, Christ did not enter the Most Holy Place yet, He did that at His ascension.
 
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mmksparbud

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But His sacrifice was accepted or He would not be alive. Now He is our High Priest offering that sacrifice as each sinner comes up. Thus when He returns, the saved are already known and will be resurrected or changed at His return. But It will not "be done" until the earth is made new and the New Jerusalem is brought down after the 1000 years.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
 
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John Hyperspace

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Um.. what is the Seventy Weeks and The Olivet Discourse and Revelation about?

I'm not talking about prophecy being written, I'm talking about the actual fulfillment of the prophecy being recorded. The gospels are recording the fulfillment of prophecy. "And thus fulfilling..." "As it is written..." "And so fulfilled..."

There is no such a thing as "And thus came Titus according to the prophecy..." "And the Romans razed the temple of God, thus fulfilling..." there is absolutely nothing about 70a.d. in the bible at all. You are trying to point at prophecy that you interpret to mean the 70a.d. seige as being recorded fulfillment of that thing; which is clearly not something that can be taken seriously.

The fact is that God prophesized the first coming, and recorded the fulfillment of that prophecy in the bible, where it belongs, and where it is witnessed by everyone reading the bible. There is simply no way, whatsoever, that your proposal that God left the cumulative fulfillment of His Word outside of His Word and not recorded in His Word as witness to all who read it.

I mean absolutely no offence, but this is simply beyond belief. Can you honestly say to me, "I believe God left the ultimate sign and fulfillment of all redemptive history and prophecy out of the bible?" Can you look me in the eye with a straight face, and say that, and expect me to take it seriously?
 
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I'm not talking about prophecy being written, I'm talking about the actual fulfillment of the prophecy being recorded. The gospels are recording the fulfillment of prophecy. "And thus fulfilling..." "As it is written..." "And so fulfilled..."

There is no such a thing as "And thus came Titus according to the prophecy..." "And the Romans razed the temple of God, thus fulfilling..." there is absolutely nothing about 70a.d. in the bible at all. You are trying to point at prophecy that you interpret to mean the 70a.d. seige as being recorded fulfillment of that thing; which is clearly not something that can be taken seriously.

The fact is that God prophesized the first coming, and recorded the fulfillment of that prophecy in the bible, where it belongs, and where it is witnessed by everyone reading the bible. There is simply no way, whatsoever, that your proposal that God left the cumulative fulfillment of His Word outside of His Word and not recorded in His Word as witness to all who read it.

I mean absolutely no offence, but this is simply beyond belief. Can you honestly say to me, "I believe God left the ultimate sign and fulfillment of all redemptive history and prophecy out of the bible?" Can you look me in the eye with a straight face, and say that, and expect me to take it seriously?

The Olivet Discourse is a prophecy of the destruction of the Temple, the destruction of the Jerusalem, the scattering of Israel, and the end of the Mosaic Covenant. That happened in A.D. 70. Also spoken of in Daniel's seventy weeks and also in Daniel 12:1-7. Also, in Deuteronomy 32, it prophecies the last days of Old Covenant Israel. Both Jesus and the NT writers and Revelation 15:3 quote from it.

In Jesus' generation, Matthew 24:34.
 
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But His sacrifice was accepted or He would not be alive. Now He is our High Priest offering that sacrifice as each sinner comes up. Thus when He returns, the saved are already known and will be resurrected or changed at His return. But It will not "be done" until the earth is made new and the New Jerusalem is brought down after the 1000 years.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Read Isaiah 65, the whole chapter is about Israel in the 1st century and the coming of the New Covenant by which a New Heavens and New Earth are created with the destruction of the Mosaic Covenant (the Jewish Heavens and Earth). Jesus quotes from this chapter when he chastens the Pharisees in the Temple.
 
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mmksparbud

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The Olivet Discourse is a prophecy of the destruction of the Temple, the destruction of the Jerusalem, the scattering of Israel, and the end of the Mosaic Covenant. That happened in A.D. 70. Also spoken of in Daniel's seventy weeks and also in Daniel 12:1-7. Also, in Deuteronomy 32, it prophecies the last days of Old Covenant Israel. Both Jesus and the NT writers and Revelation 15:3 quote from it.

In Jesus' generation, Matthew 24:34.



Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

That is talking about the generation that is alive at the time that all the signs would be fulfilled.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

None of those signs happened in 70 AD
 
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Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

That is talking about the generation that is alive at the time that all the signs would be fulfilled.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

None of those signs happened in 70 AD

Yes, it did, just read

Isaiah 13:1-17, a prophecy against Babylon. Please note verses 10 & 13. These are Hebrew hyperboles.

Now read who is ultimately responsible for these cosmic disturbances in verse 17.


Ezekiel 32:2-11, a prophecy against Egypt. Please note verses 7 & 8. These are Hebrew hyperboles.

Now read who is ultimately responsible for these cosmic disturbances in verse 11.

Isaiah 19:1-4, a prophecy against Egypt. Please note verse 1. This is a Hebrew hyperbole.

Now read who is ultimately responsible in verses 2-4, also read Isaiah 20.

Now read 2 Samuel 22:1-16, please note verses 6-18. This is Hebrew hyperbole.

Now read verse 1 to learn who David was delivered from and who is ultimately responsible for these cosmic disturbances. Psalms 18 revisits the very same event of the deliverance of David and uses the very same Hebrew hyperboles.
 
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Are you actually saying that the new earth and the New Jerusalem were created back then???

It is really awesome and deep Scriptural study, here is an article to read from Full Preterist Pastor David B Curtis of Berean Bible Church (BaBerean, I challenge you to read this article too):

How Heaven and Earth Passed Away

David Curtis
When I first came to see as truth the fact that the Lord had come in 70 AD and all prophecy had been fulfilled my first objection was, "This means we are living in the new heaven and the new earth!" My response to that was "Yea right! If this is the New heaven and earth we got ripped off!"

Why did I feel that way? It was because I was looking for a physical fulfillment of 2 Peter 3 and Revelation 21-22. I thought that those passages were speaking of physical truths, I now know differently, I didn't understand apocalyptic language. The thing that changed my mind was seeing how the Old Testament Scripture used the concept of heaven and earth. Lets look at how the scripture uses the concept of heaven and earth, I think you'll see that it is not always used physically.

The Teaching of Jesus

Question: Has heaven and earth passed away? Ridiculous you say? Let us ask another question: Do you believe the Old Covenant has been done away? I dare say you will say it has. Few believers in Jesus would deny he has established his New Covenant. If you believe the Old Covenant has passed away, then you must believe "heaven and earth" has passed away! Please read the words of Jesus:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." (Matthew 5:17-18).

Did you notice that Jesus said heaven and earth had to pass away before the law could pass?!? Yes, he really did say it; please, get your scripture right now and read it for yourself! Has the heaven and earth passed away? Well, obviously, physical heaven and earth haven't been destroyed. But read the text again will you? Jesus DID say until heaven and earth pass away the Old Law could not pass. Our choices here are limited.

If we understand the "heaven and earth" as literal, physical heaven and earth then this means the Old Law is still in effect. Simply put the argument would go like this: If heaven and earth had to pass before the Old Law could pass; and if heaven and earth refers to literal, physical heaven and earth, then, since literal, physical heaven and earth still exist, [have not passed], it must be true that the Old Law has not passed.

A person could say the Law here is the Law of Jesus; but this will not work because Jesus had not yet died to confirm his New Covenant. He was living under the Old Law at the time also. The Jews standing there were not concerned with the passing of Jesus' law. They did not believe he even had one! They were concerned with the Old Law! Finally, if this is speaking about the passing of Christ's law it contradicts the verses in the New Testament that teach Jesus' word will never pass away in Matthew 24:35.

On the other hand, if we understand the "heaven and earth" as figurative language, referring not to physical creation, but to something else, it is possible that this "heaven and earth" could pass away, allowing for the passing of the Law.

We have Jesus' own words as to when all prophecy was to be fulfilled. In Luke 21:22 our Lord spoke of the destruction of Jerusalem and said "These be the days of vengeance in which all things that are written must be fulfilled." In verse 32 he emphatically said "this generation will not pass away until all things take place." Verse 33 contains Jesus' statement that "heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words will by no means pass away." In Luke 21:20-22. Jesus is speaking here of the destruction of Jerusalem, an event that was to occur forty years from the time that he spoke.

Luke 21 thus contains the identical elements of Matthew 5:17-18; the passing of heaven and earth, and the fulfillment of all prophecy emphatically placed within the context of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD! Note the perfect correlation of Daniel 9, Matthew 24, Revelation and Luke 21. They all tell of the time when all prophecy would be fulfilled; they all identify that time as the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD!

The Jewish idiom "the law and the prophets" in Matthew 5:17-18 means the totality of the Old Testament revelation. Jesus said he did not come to destroy it but fulfill it. Jesus is saying here, in Matthew 5, that the old law has to be fulfilled, every jot and every tittle has to be fulfilled, before it can pass away. If 2 Peter 3 is based upon the Old Testament prophets, and it is, and if 2 Peter 3 has not been fulfilled, then we are still under the Old Covenant law. That is quite simple. Do you believe that we are in the New Covenant? If we are then the Old Covenant must have passed away. And if the Old Covenant has passed then 2 Peter 3 has been fulfilled.

Let us explore the definition of the heaven and earth. Lets start by reading 2 Peter 3. Most Christians would say that this is the end of the world as we know it, the destruction of planet earth. It sure sounds that way doesn't it? That is how I had always seen it.

One of the major areas of difficulty in understanding correctly "heaven and earth" in the New Testament is the misunderstanding of how God referred to nations by this phrase in the Old Testament. Seeing the biblical concept of "heaven and earth" in the Old Testament will help us greatly in correctly understanding its use in New Testament passages. Rather than to assume that each time we encounter the phrase, we are to immediately think of this physical universe and its elements.

Heaven and Earth in the Old Testament Books

In Leviticus 26:14-20, God warns Israel that she must listen and obey Him in the commandments that He has given them. God uses various terms and expressions in describing what it will be like if they despise His statutes, but notice particularly verse 19: "and I will break the pride of your power, and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass." Compare Genesis 1:1 with Leviticus 26:19, are the terms "heaven and earth" to be understood in the same way? They clearly do not mean the same thing in each verse. Notice how the character of Israel's disposition in God's view is personalized, "your heaven" and "your earth." So the terms "heaven" and "earth" belong or relate to Israel, they evidently constitute a "heaven" and "earth."

Who is God speaking to in Isaiah 1:1-2, "…Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth." The physical creation? No, he is speaking to Israel. And who is the witness in Deuteronomy 4:26, "I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day"? Physical creation or Old Covenant Israel?

Another example of "heaven and earth" being referred to the Covenant World of Israel, and not literal creation, is Isaiah 51:16, "And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people." Notice that God is speaking to Israel. He says he gave them his law, the Old Covenant, the same law Jesus is speaking about in Matthew 5:17-18, to establish heaven and lay the foundation of the earth! Clearly God is not saying he gave the Old Covenant to Israel to create literal heaven and earth! Material creation existed long before Israel was ever given the Old Covenant.

The meaning of this verse is that God gave his covenant with Israel to create their world--a covenant world with God! God created Israel's "heaven and earth" by giving them his Covenant. Now if he destroyed that Old Covenant heaven and earth and gave a New Covenant, would he not thereby be creating a New heaven and earth? This is precisely the thought in the New Covenant Scriptures!

This idea is seen more clearly as we look at other passages where mention is made of the destruction of a state and government using language which seems to set forth the end of the world, as the collapse of heaven and earth. In Isaiah 13:1-13, this is not an oracle against the universe or world, but against the nation of Babylon. Notice verse 13, "Therefore I will shake the heavens, And the earth will move out of her place."

Now remember, he is speaking about the destruction of Babylon, but it sounds like world wide destruction. The terminology of a context cannot be expanded beyond the scope of the subject under discussion. The spectrum of language surely cannot go outside the land of Babylon. If you were a Babylonian and Babylon was destroyed would it seem like the world was destroyed? Yes! Your world would be destroyed.

This is an historical event that took place in 539 BC. When the Medes destroyed Babylon (Isaiah 13:17), the Babylonian world came to an end. This destruction is said in verse 6 to be from the Almighty, and the Medes constitute the means that God uses to accomplish this task. The physical heaven and earth were still in tact, but for Babylon they had collapsed. This is apocalyptic language. This is the way the scripture discusses the fall of a nation. This is obviously figurative language.

In Isaiah 24-27 we see the invasion of Israel by Nebuchadnezzar. He carries them away to captivity. Notice the language that he uses in Isaiah 24:3-6 and Isaiah 24:19-20. What I want you to see in these verses is how God refers to Israel as the earth. He says the earth is "utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly...the earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again" (Verses 1,3,4,19,20). Notice how many times God referred to Israel as the "earth." This is apocalyptic language speaking of the destruction of the people of Israel.

In Isaiah 34:3-5, we have a description of the fall of Edom, notice the language that is used. "...and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down...For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment." This is Biblical language to describe the fall of a nation. It should be clear that it is not to be taken literally.

In Nahum 1:1-5, the subject of this judgment is Nineveh, not the physical world. "The burden of Nineveh...the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet. He rebuketh the sea, and maketh it dry, and drieth up all the rivers...The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein." This is the way God describes the fall of a nation. If this language describes the judgment of God on nations, why, when we come to the New Testament, do we make it be the destruction of the universe? It is only because we do not understand how the scripture uses this apocalyptic language.

In Daniel 9:24-27 (and Dan.12:11), Daniel was told that 70 weeks had been determined on his people and city, i.e. Jerusalem. Daniel's prophecy then tells of the time when all prophecy would be fulfilled. When would this be? The end of Daniel's vision was the destruction of Jerusalem that occurred in 70 AD. See Daniel 9:27 and compare it with Matthew 24:15ff where Jesus said the Abomination of Desolation and his coming would occur in his generation (vs.34). Compare Matthew 24:15-19 with Luke 21:20-23; this parallel passage explains this desolation as the destruction of Jerusalem, which occurred in 70AD.

Heaven and Earth in the New Testament Books

Hebrews 12:26-28 is another text that speaks of the passing of the Old Covenant World under the imagery of the passing of heaven and earth. "Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:"

The writer alludes to the giving of the Law at Sinai, [remember Isaiah 51], as the shaking of earth. He says God promised to shake not only earth, but heaven also. This shaking signified removing them; therefore, God was promising to remove heaven and earth. Why? So that something that could not be removed would remain. Now notice in verse 28 he says they were, at that time, receiving (they had not already completely received it) a kingdom "that cannot be shaken." Reader, if they were receiving an unshakable kingdom, this of necessity means the "heaven and earth" was being removed! [Remember Jesus' words in Matthew 24:35 about the "heaven and earth" passing but his word not passing? Jesus' world then is unshakable. Hebrews is discussing the shaking of one world and receiving of another unshakable kingdom. See the comparison?].

In Matthew 24, Jesus predicted the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem. This Temple was the very center of the Jewish world. This is where the sacrifices for sin were offered by the genealogically confirmed Levitical priests. For Jesus to predict the utter desolation of this temple was the same as saying their world was about to come crashing down around their ears!

The last book in the scripture confirms that all prophecy was to be fulfilled at the fall of Jerusalem. This book is the story of the fall of the great city, Babylon. Many differing interpretations have been offered to identify this city and yet the most obvious interpretation of all has been ignored. Revelation specifically identifies Babylon--it is the great city "where our Lord was crucified" (Revelation 11:8). Reader, Jesus was not crucified in Rome; he was not crucified "in" the Roman Catholic church, he was not crucified "in" apostate Christianity. Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem!

Our point is this, John predicted the fall of Babylon, the city where our Lord was crucified. He expressed this under the imagery of the passing of heaven and earth. He said all this was to "shortly take place." See the correlation with Daniel 9, Matthew 5 and Matthew 24? Such beautiful harmony is no accident!

2 Peter 3

With this understanding of how "heaven and earth" is used in the scripture, let's look at 2 Peter 3. This was, by far, the text that I struggled with the most. I could not understand how we were in the New heavens and the New earth. As you read different commentaries you will read things like, "this is by far the strongest passage to prove the consummation of time, the termination of the earth as we know it." But what is so inherently different about 2 Peter 3 (the earth and its works burnt up) and Deut 32:22 (fire consumes the earth and its yield)?

In 2 Peter 3:1-2, Peter is reminding us of what has already been said. The New Testament does not contain brand new prophecies that just dropped out of the sky containing new information. 2 Peter 3 is just a reiteration of what has already been written by the prophets that spoke before. Peter gives us a key to interpretation. That key is that what he is saying has been written by the Old Testament prophets. Keep that in mind.

In 2 Peter 3:3-4, Peter said that these scoffers would come in the last days, when are the last days? Micah 4:1 says that God's kingdom will be established in the last days. According to Peter in Acts 2:14-20, the last days began at Pentecost and these last days included and ended with the great and awesome day of the Lord.

In Hebrews 1:1-2, the "last days" refers to the last days of the house of Israel, the last days of the Old Covenant. The last days are the period from 30 AD to 70 AD. Isn't it interesting that during that time the scoffers were already asking, "where is the promise of His coming?" If they were questioning His coming then, about 35 years after his death, what would they be saying today, two thousand years later? They knew that his coming was to be soon, sometime within the first century.

Now, some use the argument from 2 Peter 3:5-7 that the world was destroyed in Noah's day and the world will be destroyed again. Lets consider that argument.

Peter says that the world consisted of heaven and earth, and that they were destroyed by water and perished. We know that the substance of neither heaven or earth was destroyed, but it was the evil men that were destroyed, God brought "the flood upon the world of the ungodly" (2 Peter 2:5). Peter makes a distinction between the heaven and earth of Noah's day which were destroyed, and the heaven and earth that existed then which were to be destroyed by fire. The literal visible fabric of heaven and earth were the same after the flood as they were before the flood. Lets remember what we saw in the Old Testament as to the apocalyptic use of heaven and earth. The destruction of heaven and earth refers to the civil and religious state, and the men of them. What was it that really perished in the flood? Look at verse 6 – "Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished." It was the world that perished, right? Now what does the word "world" mean? It is the orderly arrangement of society, it wasn't the dirt. Now how do you go from an ungodly society that was destroyed to the destruction of the entire universe? The literal earth was not destroyed. What is to be destroyed is the ungodly nation of Israel. Nowhere do the Scriptures teach that the physical creation will be destroyed. Notice what God said after the flood of Noah's day in Genesis 8:21.

Genesis 8:21, "And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done."

Now, folks will say that the Lord destroyed the earth by water one time and He'll destroy it by fire the next time. Is God's promise here to just change his method of destroying everything? Is there comfort in being destroyed by fire instead of water? Or is he promising not to destroy the earth again?

God said the literal heaven (Psalm 148:4-6) and the literal earth (Psalm 104:5) will never pass away. Psalms 78:69, "...the earth which he hath established for ever." In Genesis 8:21, God said he would never again destroy every living thing. God can be trusted, He keeps his word. "…the earth abideth for ever" (Ecclesiastes 1:4). And remember Isaiah 9:7, "Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end." If the earth is to be destroyed, then that would be the end of the increase of Christ's government.

2 Peter 3:8-9 is simply saying that God keeps his promises. In 2 Peter 3:10, what is "the day of the Lord"? It is a time of judgment on Israel, it is the end of the Old Covenant age. We have a parallel passage in Matthew 24:42-44. Peter is talking about Jesus second coming at the end of the Jewish age. When the Lord comes, the heaven and earth of the Old Covenant age will pass away. Let me give you a question here to think about -- where is the millennium in Peters discussion? Peter is talking about the Lord coming and when He does we go right into the New heaven and earth.

When we read the word "elements" in 2 Peter 3:10,12, we think of the scientific idea of the elements of matter, all the atoms of the universe burning up. But is this what the word "elements" means? The Greek word for elements is stoicheia, it is only used seven times in the New Testament.

Galatians 4:3, "Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:"

Galatians 4:9, "But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?"

Colossians 2:8, "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

Colossians 2:20,22, "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances… after the commandments and doctrines of men?"

Hebrews 5:12, "For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat."


In other words, this is the elements of religious training, or the ceremonial precepts that are common to the worship of Jews and of Gentiles. Obviously, this stoicheia is not about atoms or destruction of the universe.

What is being dissolved in 2 Peter 3:11-13? The Old Covenant system is being dissolved, not the universe. Where do we have a promise about a new heaven and earth? Peter was surly thinking of the book of Isaiah, chapters 65 and 66 (read Isaiah 65:17).

If you read Isaiah 65 and 66, you will notice that, before God creates the new heavens and a new earth, God predicted that Israel would fill the measure of her sin (65:7); he would destroy them (65:8-15; 66:3-6,15-18,24); create a new people with a new name (65:15-16); then create a new heaven and earth with a new Jerusalem (65:17-19). When God created the new heavens and earth, notice that physical death will remain (Isa. 65:20, 66:24), home construction and agriculture will continue (Isa. 65:21-22), we will have descendants (Isa. 65:23, 66:22), the Lord will hear their prayers (Isa. 65:24), there will still be sin (Isa. 65:20, Mat.12:32, Rev.22:15 ), and it is depicted as a time of evangelism when the Jew and Gentile will be brought together under the banner of God (66:19). The new heavens and earth, therefore, cannot be referring to the eternal state; it must be referring to a period in man's history. This is the period of the Kingdom of God which Christ rules in the hearts of the believers. The Kingdom of God is made without hands (spiritual - Dan. 2:34, 44-45; c.f. Col. 2:10-11). If we take the statements from the scriptures at face value, then we should conclude that the first heavens and the first earth passed away and was replaced by the glorious reign of the Lord Jesus Christ, the kingdom without end. Notice that in this New Heaven and Earth, righteousness dwells, as it does in the New Covenant (2 Corinthians 3:9).


Conclusion

There are three heaven and earth time periods in 2 Peter 3, and the change from one epoch of time to another was referred to as a passing of heaven and earth. The object of that expression was to show a change in God's dealings with man rather than a change in the literal, material constitution of the world itself.

Futurists teach that the new heaven and earth of Revelation 21 and the new Jerusalem of Revelation 22 is the saved of all ages, the bride of Christ at the end of the millennium, when all things have ended and we have embarked into eternity: They have entered eternity; sin, death, hades and Satan have all been cast into the lake of fire. Remember that all evil has been disposed of, God has healed the Church of her ills, sin has been finally purged from her so that only a grandiose description of her can truly tell of her beauty. The futurists teach that the earth will be a physical paradise at this time, but is that what the Scriptures say?

When we look at Revelation 22:1-2, a question immediately comes to mind: why would the nations need healing? They have entered eternity; sin, death, Hades and Satan have all been cast into the lake of fire. Why would they need healing if they are now in eternal bliss? Remember that all evil has been disposed of, God has healed the Church of her ills, sin has been finally purged If one adopts the futurist view, then one is at pains to explain this tree. Why would the gates of this city be left open if everything outside this city is destroyed (Rev.21:25)? If everyone outside these gates were burned up, and there is nobody left alive outside these gates, why are there people still entering through the gates into the city after the New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven (Rev.22:14)? If one adopts the preterist view, the explanations are quite easy. Does the New Covenant gospel age end, or is it truly an everlasting covenant as Hebrews 13:20 says? It is obviously a never ending age. The new age, or the new world, will never end (Isa.45:17 Eph.3:21, Ecc.1:4).



His plan for us is an ever-deepening experience of Christ's presence, and an unfolding realization of his sovereignty over all things. God called Israel to be a light to the nations, to lead all people into a covenant relationship with the Father. His purpose for his church, the "Israel of God," is the same. We are to be calling the world to drink of the living water of the gospel. Let's be faithful to our calling.

Revelation 22:17, "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely."

Full preterists see the scripture not as the history of man, but as the history of Old Covenant Israel, and that all the prophecies in the Old Covenant concerning the future of Israel are fulfilled in Christ, and are spiritual in nature. Just as there was a 40 year period of wandering between the giving of the Old Covenant and the entering of the physical promised land, so also there was a 40-year wandering period of the church in between the giving of the New Covenant and the entering in of the spiritual promised land. In other words, it's all about shadows versus substance:

2 Corinthians 4:18: "While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal."

The book of Revelation deals with the final consummation of all biblical prophecy. In Revelation, we see the dissolution and uprooting of Old Covenant Israel out of her land and the vindication and planting of New Covenant Israel into her land.

Additions

A further proof that "heaven and earth" refers to the covenants are the following verses. Everyone agrees that Hebrews 8:13 is speaking of the change from the old covenant to the new covenant. Now, compare the wording of this verse with two others. The wording is almost identical, except the term "covenant" is replaced with the terms "heaven and earth".

Hebrews 8:13, "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."

Hebrews 1:10-11, "And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;"

Isaiah 51:6, "Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment,"

Also, the term "heaven and earth" can be seen to refer to the religious and civil state of Israel in Revelation 12:1-5, which speaks about the birth of Jesus Christ in literal Israel.

Revelation 12:1-5: "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven (religious state of Israel); a woman (Mary)…and upon her head a crown of twelve stars (referring to the twelve tribes of Israel): And she being with child (Jesus) cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon…And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth (civil state of Israel): and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born (in Matthew 2:16, the civil government tried to slay baby Jesus). And she brought forth a man child (Jesus Christ), who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne (the ascension in Acts 1:2)."


A good verse to see that the New Heaven and Earth refers to the New Jerusalem (implying the Old Heaven and Earth refers to the Old Jerusalem) is by comparing these two verses:

Isaiah 65:17, "For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth:" Now, just substitute the word "Jerusalem" where "heaven and earth" appear!!

Isaiah 65:18, "...for, behold, I create Jerusalem." Therefore, the New Jerusalem (Revelation 3:12; 21:2) is synonymous with the New Heaven and Earth!

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/heaven-earth.html

Full Preterism is the Bible read perfectly harmonious. PLEASE NOTE THE TEXT I HIGHLIGHTED IN RED!
 
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John Hyperspace

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The Olivet Discourse is a prophecy of the destruction of the Temple, the destruction of the Jerusalem, the scattering of Israel, and the end of the Mosaic Covenant. That happened in A.D. 70. Also spoken of in Daniel's seventy weeks and also in Daniel 12:1-7. Also, in Deuteronomy 32, it prophecies the last days of Old Covenant Israel. Both Jesus and the NT writers and Revelation 15:3 quote from it.

In Jesus' generation, Matthew 24:34.

Brother you can talk about how you interpret prophecy all day long. It will never change the fact that the events of 70a.d. are not recorded in the bible at all. Clearly you're willing to believe that God recorded the fulfillment of the first advent/first half of the work of Christ in the gospels; but left the second half completely out of the book of His eternal witness. Again, I really mean no offence, but I can't believe anyone could swallow that at all. I'm not even biting.

You may as well stop quoting prophecy like it's recorded fulfillment of prophecy, because I know the obvious difference between the two.
 
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mmksparbud

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Well, can you please state the source where it says the stars fell, the sun and moon were darkened.
Astronomical records have been found dating to 136 BC----nothing recorded for 70 AD, unless you have found something.
And there is no record of :
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
I think someone would have noticed.
 
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mmksparbud

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Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
ev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Last time I checked---there is still more than plenty of tears, sorrow, crying, pain, and death.
Don't mean to be rude, but, You make no sense.
 
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BABerean2

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Show me where it says anything about water in this passage in Genesis 8,

Gen 8:1  And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters asswaged; (KJV)

Gen 8:1  Then God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the animals that were with him in the ark. And God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters subsided. (NKJV)


Quit believing everything that Don K. Preston says and read your Bible...
.
 
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Brother you can talk about how you interpret prophecy all day long. It will never change the fact that the events of 70a.d. are not recorded in the bible at all. Clearly you're willing to believe that God recorded the fulfillment of the first advent/first half of the work of Christ in the gospels; but left the second half completely out of the book of His eternal witness. Again, I really mean no offence, but I can't believe anyone could swallow that at all. I'm not even biting.

You may as well stop quoting prophecy like it's recorded fulfillment of prophecy, because I know the obvious difference between the two.

And what book in the Bible was written after A.D. 70? The Fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple would have been mentioned. It wouldn't have been excluded from the NT.
 
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Gen 8:1  And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters asswaged; (KJV)

Gen 8:1  Then God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the animals that were with him in the ark. And God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters subsided. (NKJV)


Quit believing everything that Don K. Preston says and read your Bible...
.

What does Genesis 8:21 state?

God will not kill every living thing on the earth again... with water?

Or that God will not kill every living thing on the earth.... PERIOD?
 
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Well, can you please state the source where it says the stars fell, the sun and moon were darkened.
Astronomical records have been found dating to 136 BC----nothing recorded for 70 AD, unless you have found something.
And there is no record of :
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
I think someone would have noticed.

The Old Testament is filled with examples of this language.

If you read Isaiah 65 and 66, you will notice that, before God creates the new heavens and a new earth, God predicted that Israel would fill the measure of her sin (65:7); he would destroy them (65:8-15; 66:3-6,15-18,24); create a new people with a new name (65:15-16); then create a new heaven and earth with a new Jerusalem (65:17-19). When God created the new heavens and earth, notice that physical death will remain (Isa. 65:20, 66:24), home construction and agriculture will continue (Isa. 65:21-22), we will have descendants (Isa. 65:23, 66:22), the Lord will hear their prayers (Isa. 65:24), there will still be sin (Isa. 65:20, Mat.12:32, Rev.22:15 ), and it is depicted as a time of evangelism when the Jew and Gentile will be brought together under the banner of God (66:19). The new heavens and earth, therefore, cannot be referring to the eternal state; it must be referring to a period in man's history. This is the period of the Kingdom of God which Christ rules in the hearts of the believers. The Kingdom of God is made without hands (spiritual - Dan. 2:34, 44-45; c.f. Col. 2:10-11). If we take the statements from the scriptures at face value, then we should conclude that the first heavens and the first earth passed away and was replaced by the glorious reign of the Lord Jesus Christ, the kingdom without end. Notice that in this New Heaven and Earth, righteousness dwells, as it does in the New Covenant (2 Corinthians 3:9).


When we look at Revelation 22:1-2, a question immediately comes to mind: why would the nations need healing? They have entered eternity; sin, death, Hades and Satan have all been cast into the lake of fire. Why would they need healing if they are now in eternal bliss? Remember that all evil has been disposed of, God has healed the Church of her ills, sin has been finally purged If one adopts the futurist view, then one is at pains to explain this tree. Why would the gates of this city be left open if everything outside this city is destroyed (Rev.21:25)? If everyone outside these gates were burned up, and there is nobody left alive outside these gates, why are there people still entering through the gates into the city after the New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven (Rev.22:14)? If one adopts the preterist view, the explanations are quite easy. Does the New Covenant gospel age end, or is it truly an everlasting covenant as Hebrews 13:20 says? It is obviously a never ending age. The new age, or the new world, will never end (Isa.45:17 Eph.3:21, Ecc.1:4).
 
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mmksparbud

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What does Genesis 8:21 state?

God will not kill every living thing on the earth again... with water?

Or that God will not kill every living thing on the earth.... PERIOD?


Neither-----the original Hebrew says:

Genesis 8:21
and Yhwh smelled the sweet aroma, and Yhwh said to his heart, I will not continue to belittle the ground with the crossing over of the human, given that the thoughts of the heart of the human are dysfunctional from his young age, and I will not continue to hit all the living ones which I made,


He actually was saying that this flood was now over and the destruction would not continue to keep going on. That period of destruction was over. However, it is in Gen 9 that the covenant to not flood the whole earth again is made.

Genesis 9:11
and I made my covenant rise with you, and all the flesh will not be cut again from the waters of the flood, the flood will not exist again to damage the land,

(Gen 9:11 JPS) And I will establish My covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of the flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.'
 
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Well, can you please state the source where it says the stars fell, the sun and moon were darkened.
Astronomical records have been found dating to 136 BC----nothing recorded for 70 AD, unless you have found something.
And there is no record of :
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
I think someone would have noticed.

Will the second coming of Christ entail a 5'5"-7" Jewish man (common male height of the time) appearing in the skies above Jerusalem that every man, woman, and child will witness across the whole globe in every city and village?

Or did Jesus mean something else? How long did the disciples stare stedfastly into the clouds and empty skies in Acts 1:10? 15 minutes, 30 minutes, 45 minutes, an hour or longer? The text only states stedfastly.

Please remember that Jesus ministered on earth during the Last Days - Hebrews 1:2; 1 Peter 1:20

And He shed His blood and died for us on earth at the End of the Age - Hebrews 9:26

Were these the Last Days of the material universe? Or the Last Days of the Mosaic Covenant? Was this at the end of the world? Or the end of the Jewish Age?

Have the Last Days run for nearly 2,000 years now? Has the End of the Age run for nearly 2,000 years now?

Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but desire fulfilled is a tree of life.

Seeing the Son of Man

Those who pierced Jesus lived in the first century. This helps explain Revelation 1:7 where the same wording is used. Those who "see" Him are "those who pierced Him" (cf John 19:7). John is telling us that those who pierced Jesus experienced His covenant wrath. Revelation 1:7 must refer to a pre-A.D. 70 fulfillment, before that generation passed away (Matthew 16:27-28; 24:34).

"Every eye, and those who pierced Him, shall see him" - The subject of the text is "the people of the land," viz. Judea; and it would be a direct misinterpretation, as well as false logic, to strain a term beyond its subject, by applying it to the final judgment of all. That all men shall see Him, we learn from other scriptures (2 Cor. V. 10); [the partial preterist writer of this piece has misinterpreted himself - see Hebrews 9:27] but we must deal faithfully with the text, and not force any word in order to make out a case. Truth never requires this. That the land of Judea, in the prophetic sense, is the subject, is evident from Zech. XII. 10; from which the words are taken, both here and in John XIX. 37.


"Those who pierced Him" are obviously those who had a hand in His death. The text declares that they shall see Him, employing for seeing the verb optomai, already noticed, as not limited to ocular seeing. Though those who pierced Him saw not His person after ascension, yet they saw His power bringing judgment on them, and making His cause prevail inspite of their persecution, and they speedily saw their kingdom terminated.

James Glasgow (1872)

Equating "seeing" with "understanding" is a common Biblical metaphor. In John 12:40 Jesus quotes Isaiah 6:10 to explain why some have not believed His message. Notice how "seeing" is equivalent to "understanding."

"Render the hearts of the people insensitive, their ears dull, and their eyes dim, lest they see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and repent and be healed." Isaiah 6:10

In quoting Isaiah, Jesus states Yahweh "has blinded their eyes" (John 12:40). This is not a physical blinding. The blinding is spiritual. To be blind is not to understand; to see is to understand and believe. "To open their eyes" is an expression used by Biblical writers to describe recognition and understanding (Acts of the Apostles 26:18 cf 1 Kings 8:29, 1 Kings 8:52; 2 Kings 2:16; 2 Kings 6:20; 2 Kings 19:16; Isaiah 35:5; Isaiah 42:7; Isaiah 42:16). The eyes of the disciples "were opened" by Jesus and "they recognized Him." (Luke 24:31) is another example of equating "seeing" with "understanding." David Chilton summarizes the text for us: "The crucifiers would see Him coming in judgment - that is, they would understand that His coming would mean wrath on the land (cf the use of the word "see" in Mark 1:44; Luke 17:22; John 3:36; Romans 15:21)."

David Chilton, Days of Vengeance

"And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky, to the other." Matthew 24:31

Immediately after the destruction of Jerusalem, God began to shake down the world (Matthew 24:29). The nations began to recognize Christ as King (24:30). In context, in verse 31 does not refer to the end of the world. Rather, it speaks of the spread of the Gospel in the nations.
 
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