David Daleiden Doubles Down

PapaZoom · Jan 30, 2016

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...wade-center-medical-progress-column/79154292/

He's not afraid of PP and its lawsuit nor is he backing down one bit. As I've said elsewhere, PP won't win in this case. The videos are authentic and have been verified by a top digital forensic analyst company. PP does not dispute what top PP execs said in the videos. In fact, the CEO of PP apologized for one PP exec's comments. I know some of you will fall over yourselves trying to criticize Daleiden and CMP, but you will still be wrong. CMP has broken no laws and the indictment will go nowhere and neither will any lawsuits PP brings. Daleiden is not one bit intimidated by any of this. He's a fighter and has the huge advantage of having truth on his side.

If you don't read the entire article, don't bother to comment.

SepiaAndDust · Jan 30, 2016

PapaZoom said:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...wade-center-medical-progress-column/79154292/

He's not afraid of PP and its lawsuit nor is he backing down one bit. As I've said elsewhere, PP won't win in this case. The videos are authentic and have been verified by a top digital forensic analyst company. PP does not dispute what top PP execs said in the videos. In fact, the CEO of PP apologized for one PP exec's comments. I know some of you will fall over yourselves trying to criticize Daleiden and CMP, but you will still be wrong. CMP has broken no laws and the indictment will go nowhere and neither will any lawsuits PP brings. Daleiden is not one bit intimidated by any of this. He's a fighter and has the huge advantage of having truth on his side.

If you don't read the entire article, don't bother to comment.

CMP have broken myriad laws, from tampering with governmental records and attempting to buy fetal tissue to libel and defamation. We'll see what happens with the indictments.

Whether Daleiden is intimidated or not is not material. What matters is what the courts decide to do (or not do) with him.

You keep saying that PP won't win this case, but they've won every single case so far.

Mayzoo · Jan 30, 2016

The charges against him personally have nothing to do with the videos do they? The libel claim (see below edit) does, but the charges for which he was indicted are completely independent of the truthfulness of the videos, aren't they?

Many, many people who break the law are not intimidated, or remorseful, and they are usually fairly confident they will beat the charges. That is one of the inherent problems within the nature of those who break the law. If they were not so confident they could beat "the rap", and if they were just a bit more intimidated by the law, they would not be breaking the law in the first place.

If Daleiden broke the law, then his personality (as you described it) fits the bill to a tee of many who have come before him and sadly many more who will follow him.

Edit: The numerous allegations of fraud and conspiracy leading to the lawsuit

PapaZoom · Jan 30, 2016

SepiaAndDust said:
CMP have broken myriad laws, from tampering with governmental records and attempting to buy fetal tissue to libel and defamation. We'll see what happens with the indictments.

Whether Daleiden is intimidated or not is not material. What matters is what the courts decide to do (or not do) with him.

You keep saying that PP won't win this case, but they've won every single case so far.

PP is not going after CMP for defamation. To date, PP has not denied harvesting fetal body parts and receiving compensation for those parts.

PP has not won any cases. Investigations that have concluded did not find evidence of "selling" baby body parts. That's understandable since not all PP facilities were engaging in the practice.

SepiaAndDust · Jan 30, 2016

PapaZoom said:
PP is not going after CMP for defamation.

Yet.

To date, PP has not denied harvesting fetal body parts and receiving compensation for those parts.

That would be surprising.

PP has not won any cases. Investigations that have concluded did not find evidence of "selling" baby body parts. That's understandable since not all PP facilities were engaging in the practice.

Otherwise known as a win.

PapaZoom · Jan 30, 2016

PP won't go for defamation because the videos will be front and center and you can't argue with direct quotes. Since there are many investigations still ongoing, it's hardly a "win" for PP.

Daleiden is confident simply because he knows he has case law on his side. He didn't go into this blind.

SepiaAndDust · Jan 31, 2016

PapaZoom said:
PP won't go for defamation because the videos will be front and center and you can't argue with direct quotes.

Like they haven't been front and center in these current Mickey Mouse investigations?

Since there are many investigations still ongoing, it's hardly a "win" for PP.

I said that every one so far has been a win. Do try to keep up.

Daleiden is confident simply because he knows he has case law on his side. He didn't go into this blind.

He really doesn't, though. People like Daleiden have been bankrupted and imprisoned pretty often.

PapaZoom · Jan 31, 2016

SepiaAndDust said:
Like they haven't been front and center in these current Mickey Mouse investigations?

I said that every one so far has been a win. Do try to keep up.

He really doesn't, though. People like Daleiden have been bankrupted and imprisoned pretty often.

We'll see who is more insiteful, you or me.

jayem · Feb 1, 2016

PapaZoom said:
Daleiden is not one bit intimidated by any of this. He's a fighter and has the huge advantage of having truth on his side.

What matters if he has money on his side. He's got to defend himself against a criminal charge and a civil suit. I read that the ACLJ is helping him in the civil case. But he's facing years of litigation, and his defense costs on both cases will be in the 100s of thousands. Even that ACLJ pro bono will only go so far.

DaisyDay · Feb 1, 2016

PapaZoom said:
The videos are authentic and have been verified by a top digital forensic analyst company.

Which one? You may have said this before - do you have a link to that post or could you just recite?

DaisyDay · Feb 1, 2016

PapaZoom said:
PP is not going after CMP for defamation. To date, PP has not denied harvesting fetal body parts and receiving compensation for those parts.

That's kind of weaselly as companies are allowed to recoup costs. PP has denied profiting from it.

PP has not won any cases. Investigations that have concluded did not find evidence of "selling" baby body parts. That's understandable since not all PP facilities were engaging in the practice.

So far, no facility has been found guilty of that accusation. What would "winning" look like if not that?

PapaZoom · Feb 1, 2016

jayem said:
What matters if he has money on his side. He's got to defend himself against a criminal charge and a civil suit. I read that the ACLJ is helping him in the civil case. But he's facing years of litigation, and his defense costs on both cases will be in the 100s of thousands. Even that ACLJ pro bono will only go so far.

Exactly what PP is hoping for I expect.

PapaZoom · Feb 1, 2016

DaisyDay said:
Which one? You may have said this before - do you have a link to that post or could you just recite?

http://www.coalfire.com/

brinny · Feb 1, 2016

PapaZoom said:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...wade-center-medical-progress-column/79154292/

He's not afraid of PP and its lawsuit nor is he backing down one bit. As I've said elsewhere, PP won't win in this case. The videos are authentic and have been verified by a top digital forensic analyst company. PP does not dispute what top PP execs said in the videos. In fact, the CEO of PP apologized for one PP exec's comments. I know some of you will fall over yourselves trying to criticize Daleiden and CMP, but you will still be wrong. CMP has broken no laws and the indictment will go nowhere and neither will any lawsuits PP brings. Daleiden is not one bit intimidated by any of this. He's a fighter and has the huge advantage of having truth on his side.

If you don't read the entire article, don't bother to comment.

It's not the first time that a David boldly and fearlessly challenged a Goliath.

God bless him.

Praying.

PapaZoom · Feb 1, 2016

DaisyDay said:
That's kind of weaselly as companies are allowed to recoup costs. PP has denied profiting from it.

So far, no facility has been found guilty of that accusation. What would "winning" look like if not that?

It's not about "winning." That's childish. They will either be vindicated or they won't. But it won't change the fact that PP did in fact harvest baby body parts for the purpose of exchanging the body parts for a particular amount of compensation. We know PP said they didn't make money off the sale; however, only a forensic accounting of their books can actually determine that. Trusting PP to tell the truth (if they in fact were profiting) is like taking a thief's word that he didn't steal the jewels. The videos did seem to suggest that profiting off the sale of fetal body parts is a very likely possibility.

DaisyDay · Feb 1, 2016

PapaZoom said:
It's not about "winning." That's childish.

Well, it was your idea.

They will either be vindicated or they won't.

So far, they have been.

But it won't change the fact that PP did in fact harvest baby body parts for the purpose of exchanging the body parts for a particular amount of compensation.

Again that's weaselly - they are allowed to recoup costs.

We know PP said they didn't make money off the sale;

It's not a sale, it's a donation.

however, only a forensic accounting of their books can actually determine that.

Perhaps, but if so, then you're premature in your accusations, aren't you?

Trusting PP to tell the truth (if they in fact were profiting) is like taking a thief's word that he didn't steal the jewels.

That's twisty.

And if they were not in fact profiting then trusting them to tell the truth is entirely warranted.

The videos did seem to suggest that profiting off the sale of fetal body parts is a very likely possibility.

The videos were designed to suggest that, we all know that.

DaisyDay · Feb 1, 2016

PapaZoom said:
http://www.coalfire.com/

Ok, where is the cite that says that Coalfire certified the videos as complete and unedited?

Mayzoo · Feb 1, 2016

DaisyDay said:
Well, it was your idea.
So far, they have been.

Again that's weaselly - they are allowed to recoup costs.

It's not a sale, it's a donation.

Perhaps, but if so, then you're premature in your accusations, aren't you?

That's twisty. And if they were not in fact profiting then trusting them to tell the truth is entirely warranted.
The videos were designed to suggest that, we all know that.

So, if we go with PapaZoom's idea that we cannot trust PP to tell the truth, then we should look at the whole issue critically. If we continue looking at this whole thing critically, then the videos are inadmissible simply because they were made illegally. No evidence or testimony obtained illegally is typically admissible. Of course, we cannot trust those who willingly, and knowingly break the law for their own personal gain any more than we can trust PP.

So, that leaves us right where we were before all this started. Those who oppose abortion disapprove of PP.

Unfortunately, that leaves PP damaged because they have now lost state funding they would have otherwise not lost. They have been thrown into an unjust light by videos that were made illegally and should not have been made, let alone shown to anyone. That is why PP is sueing CMP et al.

PapaZoom · Feb 1, 2016

DaisyDay said:
Well, it was your idea.
So far, they have been.

My idea? How so?

Again that's weaselly - they are allowed to recoup costs.

Thanks for clearing that up.

It's not a sale, it's a donation.

A donation? OK. Next time I make a donation I'll expect to cover my costs.

Perhaps, but if so, then you're premature in your accusations, aren't you?

Well if I am, so are all you PP defenders. I at least have the videos that strongly suggest a profit motive. You have the word of the accused.

That's twisty. And if they were not in fact profiting then trusting them to tell the truth is entirely warranted.
The videos were designed to suggest that, we all know that.

The videos weren't "designed." They were undercover recordings of actual conversations. It's like sitting in the same room listening to the conversation. No one told the PP execs what to say. Their own words testify against them.

PapaZoom · Feb 1, 2016

DaisyDay said:
Ok, where is the cite that says that Coalfire certified the videos as complete and unedited?

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