D.C. Council approves bill legalizing gay marriage

[kangitanka]

The USA, the 4th horseman of the Revelation, is the most Christian nation on earth -- where more people (percentage-wise) go to Church on the average Sunday than anywhere else.

Sorry, the USA comes in around 10th, preceded by-
Nigeria
Ireland
The Phillipines
South Africa
Poland
Puerto Rico
Portugal
Slovakia
Mexico
and
Italy

So by your criteria, Nigeria is the "most Christian nation" on earth.

 

[BigBadWlf]

Well thankfully there will be none of those sexual perversions in God's Kingdom!

1Cor 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Your Kingdom come,your will be done soon, Please Lord!

This pretty much excludes every televangelist I’ve ever heard of

 

[Gishin]

Well thankfully there will be none of those sexual perversions in God's Kingdom!

1Cor 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Your Kingdom come,your will be done soon, Please Lord!

They have just as much a shot as you have. In the end, we'll all be in the same place.

 

[IzzyPop]

Well thankfully there will be none of those sexual perversions in God's Kingdom!

1Cor 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Your Kingdom come,your will be done soon, Please Lord!

That's no fun...

 

[lawtonfogle]

Well thankfully there will be none of those sexual perversions in God's Kingdom!

1Cor 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Your Kingdom come,your will be done soon, Please Lord!

Lets see where kinky is banned.
Fornication: Well, if you are a married husband and wife, not here. This really only bans having a third wheel.
Idolatry: Well, unless your 'sexual perversions' includes some worshiping of false gods, this does not ban it.
Adultery: See fornication.
Effeminate: I would like to know what the Bible is talking about here. Surely liking to cook, and being decent at it, is not going to send me to hell. Neither is being very emotional from time to time (namely some movies, thought it is rare). That being said, I don't see how this bans kinky.
Abusers of themselves with mankind: Hmm... even S/M is not banned here, though this does ban some behaviors (cutting). Then again, when cutting is applied as self medication for dissociation, it is just as self abusing to not cut as it is to cut, except one is physical, the other emotional. And when we add in 'with mankind', I don't see how one can abuse oneself with 'mankind'...

So, that Bible verse does not ban all of what you call sexual perversions, only some of them.

 

[BigBadWlf]

Abusers of themselves with mankind: Hmm...

Psst…masturbation

At least that is how it has been interpreted for the majority of Christian history

 

[katautumn]

The USA, the 4th horseman of the Revelation

Um, where in the Bible does it even acknowledge the United States, let alone grant it the status as being the 4th Horseman?

 

[soblessed53]

The homosexual that chooses Christ over sin will be changed.

Just like the murderer, ther adulterer, and all other sinners.

They can of course repent and be saved, but if they repent, they won't be practicing homosexuality any more.

The reality is that scripture says that it is a sin. It also says that some of those in the church at Corinth were homosexuals but were changed.

1 Cor 6:9-11
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
NKJV

Not a popular verse for those Christians who say that they are born that way and cannot change.

So can a person be a Christian and remain a homosexual? No. As with all other sins, our desires will become conformed to the mind of Christ if we are truly saved. If there is no change them it is legitimate to ask if the person is truly saved. How long? That may vary from person to person, but the changing desires, the desire to be conformed to what Christ would have us to be should become evident.

(if you see no change on the outside,then it's safe to say there was no change on the inside!)

In summary. Can a homosexual who comes to Christ be saved and go to heaven? Yes, absolutely.

Can a homosexual who comes to Christ stay the same? No, absolutely not.


Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

 

[gnomon]

So can a person be a Christian and remain a homosexual? No. As with all other sins, our desires will become conformed to the mind of Christ if we are truly saved. If there is no change them it is legitimate to ask if the person is truly saved. How long? That may vary from person to person, but the changing desires, the desire to be conformed to what Christ would have us to be should become evident.

That's funny.

Because merely being a homosexual means that one is attracted to, sexually, a member of the same sex. Given that no one has yet to show that any human being chooses their sexuality we must logically conclude that God made homosexuals, just as he makes heterosexuals, intersex, etc. just the way they are.

Which mean, unless one can change the way God made them, homosexuals can never change and are forever doomed to sin just as God created them. But then again, everyone with a middling level of intellect also knows that the most popular Christians views is that we are all sinners until the day we die anyway.

So I guess the quoted passage above was thoroughly meaningless other than an attempt to take a jab at gay people.

 

[interpreter]

Um, where in the Bible does it even acknowledge the United States, let alone grant it the status as being the 4th Horseman?

For starters, the USA was founded by George Washington who rode a pale horse (see Rev. 6:7-8). And the three historical capitals of the US are pointed to by one of the vectors of the starguide of Rev. 1, which forms 21 vectors pointing to all the good things foretold.

 

[Maren]

The homosexual that chooses Christ over sin will be changed.

Just like the murderer, ther adulterer, and all other sinners.

They can of course repent and be saved, but if they repent, they won't be practicing homosexuality any more.

The reality is that scripture says that it is a sin. It also says that some of those in the church at Corinth were homosexuals but were changed.

1 Cor 6:9-11
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
NKJV

Not a popular verse for those Christians who say that they are born that way and cannot change.

So can a person be a Christian and remain a homosexual? No. As with all other sins, our desires will become conformed to the mind of Christ if we are truly saved. If there is no change them it is legitimate to ask if the person is truly saved. How long? That may vary from person to person, but the changing desires, the desire to be conformed to what Christ would have us to be should become evident.

(if you see no change on the outside,then it's safe to say there was no change on the inside!)

In summary. Can a homosexual who comes to Christ be saved and go to heaven? Yes, absolutely.

Can a homosexual who comes to Christ stay the same? No, absolutely not.


Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Actually, I don't see the word "homosexual" in that verse. And there is zero actual proof that the Greek word that modern Christians tend to claim means "homosexual", arsenokoitai, actually means that in Koine Greek. It is also interesting that an early church father, John the Faster, referred to a man performing arsenokoitai with his wife.

Last, the word arsenokoitai is a compound word, combining the word arsen-o (with a male modifier) meaning man with the word koitai (with a plural feminine modifier) meaning bed. It is strange that the word indicates a female's bed if the word was meant to mean homosexual sex.

Last, the problem with your idea about gays changing sexual orientation when the give themselves to Christ is that it just doesn't happen. Even among those that claim that homosexuals can change their sexual orientation, they still claim that it requires months, if not years, of hard work and various therapies for sexual orientation to change -- and that is after the homosexual has already given himself to Christ. Further, with drunkards appearing in the verse, why does this not mean that alcoholism is cured if a person truly finds Christ? Yet I've not heard a Christian claim alcoholism can be cured -- as you are trying to make these verses say about homosexuality -- merely that Christ will help them resist the temptations caused by a persons alcoholism.

 

[soblessed53]

Actually, I don't see the word "homosexual" in that verse. And there is zero actual proof that the Greek word that modern Christians tend to claim means "homosexual", arsenokoitai, actually means that in Koine Greek. It is also interesting that an early church father, John the Faster, referred to a man performing arsenokoitai with his wife.

Last, the word arsenokoitai is a compound word, combining the word arsen-o (with a male modifier) meaning man with the word koitai (with a plural feminine modifier) meaning bed. It is strange that the word indicates a female's bed if the word was meant to mean homosexual sex.

Last, the problem with your idea about gays changing sexual orientation when the give themselves to Christ is that it just doesn't happen. Even among those that claim that homosexuals can change their sexual orientation, they still claim that it requires months, if not years, of hard work and various therapies for sexual orientation to change -- and that is after the homosexual has already given himself to Christ. Further, with drunkards appearing in the verse, why does this not mean that alcoholism is cured if a person truly finds Christ? Yet I've not heard a Christian claim alcoholism can be cured -- as you are trying to make these verses say about homosexuality -- merely that Christ will help them resist the temptations caused by a persons alcoholism.

YEAH RIGHT!
I suppose this isn't a plain enough description of homosexuality for you either!

Romans1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.



Main Entry: 1re·pent
Pronunciation: \ri-ˈpent\
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French repentir, from Medieval Latin repoenitēre, from Latin re- + Late Latin poenitēre to feel regret, alteration of Latin paenitēre — more at penitent
Date: 14th century
intransitive verb 1 : to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life
2 a : to feel regret or contrition b : to change one's mind

 

[Polycarp1]

Just as a question, have any of you taken this discussion to the forums set aside for debate and discussion of the issues in question, where the verses and words brought up in the last two posts have been dissected and examined thoroughly for several months?

And have any of you who feel that the D.C. government made a wrong decision here ever seriously attempted to live by the commandments of Jesus Christ as recorded in the Gospels?

Because what I'm reading in this thread sure sounds to me like 'cultural Christianity' -- using the forms and trappings of Christian practice to justify a social norm, not as a change in life brought about by a rnewing of spirit and an inward intent to live as Christ commands.

I'm sorry if that sounds condemnatory -- it's not, it's holding up a mirror to say, This is what it looks like to me.

 

[Gishin]

The homosexual that chooses Christ over sin will be changed.

Just like the murderer, ther adulterer, and all other sinners.

They can of course repent and be saved, but if they repent, they won't be practicing homosexuality any more.

The reality is that scripture says that it is a sin. It also says that some of those in the church at Corinth were homosexuals but were changed.

1 Cor 6:9-11
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
NKJV

Not a popular verse for those Christians who say that they are born that way and cannot change.

So can a person be a Christian and remain a homosexual? No. As with all other sins, our desires will become conformed to the mind of Christ if we are truly saved. If there is no change them it is legitimate to ask if the person is truly saved. How long? That may vary from person to person, but the changing desires, the desire to be conformed to what Christ would have us to be should become evident.

(if you see no change on the outside,then it's safe to say there was no change on the inside!)

In summary. Can a homosexual who comes to Christ be saved and go to heaven? Yes, absolutely.

Can a homosexual who comes to Christ stay the same? No, absolutely not.


Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Aren't there rules against you telling people who can and cannot be Christian?

 

[Polycarp1]

Aren't there rules against you telling people who can and cannot be Christian?

Yes, there are. But oddly, posts of this sort seldom get edited nor any public reprimand made. Staff may well be doing things privately; I don't know. But people do seem free to break the board's rules with abandon in this particular regard, all the while looking down their noses at those who claim the divine mercy supersedes their particular reading of what they consider God's Rules.

But rather than cast a veiled accusation at staff, let me ask: what is the policy on cases like this, and how should members handle it? Further, how should members react if they report a post for what appears to be a rule break and there is neither public action nor a private response to their report? Hopefully, this won't be seen as 'putting staff on the spot' but rather as asking a reasonable question about how to deal with a common form of breaking or brinking of the board rules.

 

[Jase]

The homosexual that chooses Christ over sin will be changed.

Hmm, I chose Christ and I'm still attracted to men. Try again?

Just like the murderer, ther adulterer, and all other sinners.

Murder and sexual orientation are not even remotely similar.

They can of course repent and be saved, but if they repent, they won't be practicing homosexuality any more.

So, just because of something we're born with, we're never allowed to fall in love?

The reality is that scripture says that it is a sin. It also says that some of those in the church at Corinth were homosexuals but were changed.

The reality is scripture says no such thing. Your interpretation of scripture does.

1 Cor 6:9-11

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
NKJV

The word homosexual wasn't invented until relatively recently. Long, long after the Bible was written. So how can that be accurate when the word didn't exist? And sodomite in the King James Bible referred to general wickedness, as associated with the greedy and arrogant sins of Sodom. Had nothing to do with sexuality.

Not a popular verse for those Christians who say that they are born that way and cannot change.

Deut 21 "If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother ... Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city ... And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die."

That's not a popular verse for parents who don't want to murder their children. What's your point?

So can a person be a Christian and remain a homosexual? No. As with all other sins, our desires will become conformed to the mind of Christ if we are truly saved. If there is no change them it is legitimate to ask if the person is truly saved. How long? That may vary from person to person, but the changing desires, the desire to be conformed to what Christ would have us to be should become evident.

I live my life as sinless as possible, to the point that people have given me the nickname "Angel". And guess what, still attracted to guys. Guess God doesn't want me to change. And since I expect the inevitable "you didn't pray hard enough", I've spent most of my life begging God to change me. I've been through more suffering than you could ever imagine. So please don't insult me by saying I'm not a "true believer" because of my orientation.

 

[BigBadWlf]

YEAH RIGHT!
I suppose this isn't a plain enough description of homosexuality for you either!

Maren is entirely correct. There is no support for the claim that the Greek word arsenokoites translates as homosexual. For most of Christian history the word was translated to mean masturbation. No bible translated the word as homosexual until 1984.

I am always amaze that the people demanding a literal interpretation of the bible are the first people to reject such an interoperation when it comes to this word and their own personal prejudices

 

[BigBadWlf]

The homosexual that chooses Christ over sin will be changed.

Changed into what?

Just like the murderer, ther adulterer, and all other sinners.

how about like black people who sin and present themselves as equal to whites?

Not a popular verse for those Christians who say that they are born that way and cannot change.

So can a person be a Christian and remain a homosexual? No. As with all other sins, our desires will become conformed to the mind of Christ if we are truly saved. If there is no change them it is legitimate to ask if the person is truly saved. How long? That may vary from person to person, but the changing desires, the desire to be conformed to what Christ would have us to be should become evident.

(if you see no change on the outside,then it's safe to say there was no change on the inside!)

In summary. Can a homosexual who comes to Christ be saved and go to heaven? Yes, absolutely.

Can a homosexual who comes to Christ stay the same? No, absolutely not.


Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

So gays and lesbians are expected to lie and present false witness about themselves to be saved…so I guess you are saying that lying isn’t a sin anymore?

 

[soblessed53]

Matt. 7:16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Matt. 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

2John 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed:
2John 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

 

[sbvera13]

Do not forget the story of the Roman Centurion Cornelius, and unclean man, who came to Peter.
Acts 10 - Passage[wash my mouth]Lookup - New International Version - BibleGateway.com

Acts 10:1: Cornelius is a pious man.

1At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was known as the Italian Regiment. 2He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly. 3One day at about three in the afternoon he had a vision. He distinctly saw an angel of God, who came to him and said, "Cornelius!" 4Cornelius stared at him in fear. "What is it, Lord?" he asked.
The angel answered, "Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God. 5Now send men to Joppa to bring back a man named Simon who is called Peter.

Acts 10:11: Peter rejects that which is unclean

11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat." 14"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."

Acts 10:15: God educates Peter on forgiveness

The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."

Acts 10:27: Peter learns his lesson

27Talking with him, Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people. 28He said to them: "You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile or visit him. But God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean.

34Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right.