Creationists False on Key Point

[Hieronymus]

I notice you've slipped in a metaphysical claim there. For the theist, nothing in reality is exclusively naturalistic.

But the ToE is.

 

[Speedwell]

But the ToE is.

Right. All scientific theories are. The ultimate cause and purpose of our existence are outside their scope, and scientific theories make no claims about them.

 

[Dale]

I don't believe that the world is 4000 years old.

If the world is about 6,000 years old today then it was about 4,000 years old in New Testament times. Is that too much arithmetic for a creationist?

 

[Dale]

Just my personal view, but I think the creation science community and those who propagate it do more to push people away from Christianity than anything else.

Thanks!
I've been saying for some time that more people have exited Christianity because of creationism than for any other reason, except possibly for sexual morality. Creationists apparently have no idea what I am talking about.


I have heard preachers forcefully expound from the pulpit their view that there is NOTHING between militant creationism and militant atheism. Unfortunately, I have met people on CF who took that advice and became atheists, or at least agnostics. I've also talked to at least one person who escaped that fate by a miracle—with the help of God, the girl was able to become a non-creationist Christian.

 

[Radrook]

If the world is about 6,000 years old today then it was about 4,000 years old in New Testament times. Is that too much arithmetic for a creationist?

I have been familiar with that 6,000 year concept very likely before you were born or maybe crawling around in soiled diapers. JWs taught it to me and they were predicting the end of the world in 1975 based on that chronological idea.

http://www.4jehovah.org/did-jehovahs-witness-predict-the-end-of-the-world-in-1975/

So I DEFINITELY could not have meant that I think that the world is just 4000 years old.

 

[Dale]

I have been familiar with that 6,000 year concept very likely before you were born or maybe crawling around in soiled diapers. JWs taught it to me and they were predicting the end of the world in 1975 based on that chronological idea.

http://www.4jehovah.org/did-jehovahs-witness-predict-the-end-of-the-world-in-1975/

So I DEFINITELY could not have meant that I think that the world is just 4000 years old.

Are you one of the liberal creationists who think the world could be 10,000 years old?

You gain nothing by sounding contemptuous.

 

[Radrook]

Are you one of the liberal creationists who think the world could be 10,000 years old?

You gain nothing by sounding contemptuous.

Are you one of the liberal creationists who think the world could be 10,000 years old?

You gain nothing by sounding contemptuous.

You sounded contemptuous via gloating about my supposed ignorance..
I accept that the Earth can be three and a half billion years old.

 

[juvenissun]

Here's another assumption Creationists tend to make. Since Genesis is the first book of the Bible, they assume that it is the foundation of all that follows. Genesis, and the Eden story, is foundational. They fear that if you remove the first chapter or two of Genesis, the whole structure falls.

OK, let's remove Genesis 1 to 3.
Then tell me why do Christians need a man called Jesus to die on the cross?

 

[juvenissun]

What the creationists should be looking for is not the garden, but the literal cornerstone of the Earth (Job 38:6).

The earth DOES have literal cornerstones. You are sitting on one of them.

 

[Hieronymus]

Right. All scientific theories are. The ultimate cause and purpose of our existence are outside their scope, and scientific theories make no claims about them.

They do when they assume it (naturalistic pseudo rational interpretation of historical evidence) is all there is, and they definitely do do that, in public. And in that view God can't have done anything, let alone rebellious gods.
So then there is no Creation, no serpent (or shining one), no nephilim, no Flood, no Exodus, etcetera...

 

[Hieronymus]

The earth DOES have literal cornerstones. You are sitting on one of them.

The best question i read somewhere here lately was:
What do the pillars (on which the earth rests) rest on??

 

[juvenissun]

There is a problem here. No verse anywhere in the Bible, from beginning to end, says anything about God removing the Garden of Eden. If God destroyed the Tree of Life and the Garden around it, the Bible doesn't mention it. If God moved it to heaven, the Bible doesn't mention that either.

Who said the Garden has been removed or destroyed? Creationist certainly does not say that. YOU are the only one I ever heard to say that.

 

[juvenissun]

The best question i read somewhere here lately was:
What do the pillars (on which the earth rests) rest on??

Exactly. The land sits on pillars of the earth. That is literally true.

 

[Hieronymus]

Exactly. The land sits on pillars of the earth. That is literally true.

...but the question is what do the pillars rest on?
(this is the flat domed earth model)

 

[juvenissun]

...but the question is what do the pillars rest on?
(this is the flat domed earth model)

The pillars are supported by the center (core) of the earth.

 

[Hieronymus]

The pillars are supported by the center (core) of the earth.

Ah, but that's not the domed flat earth model of Scripture.
I don't lose any sleep over it anyways.

 

[juvenissun]

Ah, but that's not the domed flat earth model of Scripture.
I don't lose any sleep over it anyways.

The Scripture never says that the earth is flat.

 

[Dale]

You sounded contemptuous via gloating about my supposed ignorance..
I accept that the Earth can be three and a half billion years old.

Then I don't see why you are arguing with me since your belief is not that different from mine.

 

[Dale]

Who said the Garden has been removed or destroyed? Creationist certainly does not say that. YOU are the only one I ever heard to say that.

What do you think happened to the Garden of Eden? I haven't heard any interesting theories from you.


I first encountered the claim that the Garden of Eden had been removed from the Earth in Spalding's Treasury of Bible Stories, which I read as a child.


To further answer your question, in post #17, I gave a link to a creationist website which says that Eden was destroyed. Their answer, not mine. For the claim that Eden was destroyed in the Flood, see the last paragraph in the following link.

Link:

https://answersingenesis.org/genesis/garden-of-eden/was-the-garden-of-eden-located-in-iraq/


In post #24, I refer to a Bible commentary which suggests that Eden was removed but is being kept in heaven for the future.


In post #27, I quote the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia. NACE reviews Jewish sources which teach that Eden is in or near heaven. This fits the theory that Eden was removed from earth by God. Oddly, NACE can't seem to find any Catholic thought on the subject.

 

[Dale]

Sorry, double post.