Creationism to be in GCSE papers

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gluadys

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I'd like to see the discussions include more than creationism and intelligent design. If the point is to see how theories develop and become accepted, it belongs properly in a history of science unit which might very well discuss astrology and alchemy as precursors of astronomy and chemistry.

How was it that devoted scientists like Kepler and Newton took astrology and alchemy seriously? Why do we not today?

Set in that sort of context, students might learn to apply the same paradigm to creationism and ID (which is really old-fashioned Paleyism in modern dress).
 
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Athene

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This is something that I think I would have found interesting when I was studying GCSEs, discussing how scientific controversy arises, plus the whole creationism/ID is very current and topical and I do believe that science classes in school should cover (to a small extent) current developments in science and controversies.

Having said that, schools will have to make darn sure that fundie teachers don't use this as a window of opportunity to indoctrinate school kids into thinking ID and creationism are valid alternatives to the theory of evolution.
 
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ignorant and stupid

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gluadys said:
devoted scientists like Kepler and Newton took astrology and alchemy seriously? Why do we not today?


"All the counsel you have received has only worn you out! Let your astrologers come forward, those stargazers who make predictions month by month, let them save you from what is coming upon you."
- Isaiah 47:13

I'd much rather they taught ID, because even if its wrong its not evil. Astrology is evil.

It's good that they are getting kids to think about science and Christianity. Afterall that's why we're all on this forum...
 
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gluadys

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ignorant and stupid said:
I'd much rather they taught ID, because even if its wrong its not evil. Astrology is evil.

Nevertheless, the point of studying astronomy in ancient times was to become an astrologer, and even Christian students of astronomy up until the modern era, were expected to be competent astrologers.

Medieval medicine was also closely linked to astrological concepts. As was agriculture. Some people of my generation probably knew farmers who guided their farming practice by the Old Farmer's Almanac which used astrological concepts to predict weather and times for planting and harvesting.

I am not disputing scripture's negative judgement on astrology--especially divination by astrology or any other means.

It is simply a historical fact that at one time, even in Christian academia, astrology and alchemy had a scientific following that they do not have today. Often this was in spite of the church's condemnation, for both were also associated with witchcraft as well.

So if one is studying how theories win and lose acceptance, it is an interesting question as to how astrology became entirely disreputable as science.

I am not suggesting at all that one should teach astrology. Just look at the history of its scientific downfall. Similarly, one could look at the history of the scientific downfall of a young earth, a global flood and special creation of species.


It's good that they are getting kids to think about science and Christianity.

Not in a public school, no no. That assumes that all creationists are Christian. Public schools should not make or foster that assumption.
 
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shernren

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Not in a public school, no no. That assumes that all creationists are Christian. Public schools should not make or foster that assumption.

When you think about it properly, if ID is heavily promoted Christians won't stand to gain much. IDism is really more a deistic theory than a theistic theory. What really surprises me is that the Raelians, panspermians, Omega-point / Techno-Singularity theoreticians haven't actively seized on IDism to show that "life wasn't evolved here! It must have come from aliens / from outer space / from ourselves reaching back in time and planting the first seeds of life on our planet."
 
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vossler

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I found it surprising that the British were more advanced in this area - pleasantly mind you - than we in the United States. Anytime we teach kids to think for themselves we're on the right track. Present the facts and ideas behind the theories, then let the children decide for themselves which they wish to follow. That was summarized quite well with the last sentence of the article.

"One is a theory, the other is a faith position. It is up to the children."
 
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Athene

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vossler said:
I found it surprising that the British were more advanced in this area - pleasantly mind you - than we in the United States.

Oh I don't know about that, I think 90% of British clergy, both catholic and anglican reject a literal 6 day creation.

And ID and creationism won't be taught as valid alternatives to evolution, just examples of scientific controversy, the exception being schools which are ran by people such as sir Peter Vardy, the author of the quote at the end of the article, I believe Emmanual and Kings and various other like schools teach ID as a valid alternative anyway, but this wouldn't happen in the normal state schools because the parents would object.
 
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vossler

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Athene said:
Oh I don't know about that, I think 90% of British clergy, both catholic and anglican reject a literal 6 day creation.
Actually I wasn't thinking in terms of whether or not British clergy believe in a 6 day creation, just that alternatives were being offered. It's quite promising for a nation that has, at least recently, been labeled by many as godless.
Athene said:
And ID and creationism won't be taught as valid alternatives to evolution, just examples of scientific controversy, the exception being schools which are ran by people such as sir Peter Vardy, the author of the quote at the end of the article, I believe Emmanual and Kings and various other like schools teach ID as a valid alternative anyway, but this wouldn't happen in the normal state schools because the parents would object.
Like I said, it's a start. The thing that really struck me was how kids were encouraged to study then, after seeing the facts, make up their own minds.
 
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Athene

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vossler said:
Actually I wasn't thinking in terms of whether or not British clergy believe in a 6 day creation, just that alternatives were being offered. It's quite promising for a nation that has, at least recently, been labeled by many as godless.
Like I said, it's a start. The thing that really struck me was how kids were encouraged to study then, after seeing the facts, make up their own minds.

It's not a start, there is very little chance that the teaching of ID and creationism will progress further then 'some people for some strange reason believe that despite the masses of evidence the earth has been created in 6 days, 6000 years ago, and this is how they interpret the evidence, aren't they funny lets have a good laugh at their expense hahahahaha'

BTW, we're not Godless we just don't believe in forcing our beliefs down everyone elses throat, we don't believe in forcing everyone to live by our beliefs. Though I suppose to a 'certain type of christian' this would be seen as being godless, but honestly, big who cares.
 
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Willtor

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vossler said:
Actually I wasn't thinking in terms of whether or not British clergy believe in a 6 day creation, just that alternatives were being offered. It's quite promising for a nation that has, at least recently, been labeled by many as godless.
Like I said, it's a start. The thing that really struck me was how kids were encouraged to study then, after seeing the facts, make up their own minds.

Who labels Britain as godless?
 
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vossler

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Athene said:
It's not a start, there is very little chance that the teaching of ID and creationism will progress further then 'some people for some strange reason believe that despite the masses of evidence the earth has been created in 6 days, 6000 years ago, and this is how they interpret the evidence, aren't they funny lets have a good laugh at their expense hahahahaha'
Maybe you're right, but at least this picture is better than the one I was seeing earlier.
Athene said:
BTW, we're not Godless we just don't believe in forcing our beliefs down everyone elses throat, we don't believe in forcing everyone to live by our beliefs. Though I suppose to a 'certain type of christian' this would be seen as being godless, but honestly, big who cares.
Whether England has become godless or not I really don't know, all I do know is that from different sources I've heard that they are. One was a first hand source, which happened to be a military family that was stationed over there for over 4 years.

As for the forcing of beliefs, I'm not quite sure what you are referring to. Certainly it's not the U.S.! Heck, we can't even follow our own beliefs, much less force someone else. :confused:
 
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Athene said:
Oh I don't know about that, I think 90% of British clergy, both catholic and anglican reject a literal 6 day creation.

But in the growing churches (evangelical/charismatic) most people probably believe in creation or at least are open about it.

And to be fair some parts of the Anglican/Catholic churches are getting liberal enough to accept practising homosexuals as ministers, so it isn't a supprise that they are liberal in their opinions on creation too.
 
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