Creationism in public schools?

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chingchang

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Brothers/Sisters,

So...all of this creationism vs. evolution debate over the years and what should be taught in public schools has interested me...but not to the point where I've gotten emotionally involved. Looking back...I've been rather aloof in terms of my seeking regarding this issue. However...reading another thread in the "Christian Current Affairs" section got me thinking. Then it hit me...why does it have to be one or another? Why not teach kids the following in our public school systems:

1. Evolution Theory
2. World Religion Creationism
3. Other misc. theory

Why this overt attempt to control the thinking of our youth when the truth is WE DON'T KNOW FOR SURE? We just think we know! The simple fact is none of us were alive back then. It just seems to me that this is the most humble approach. We should avoid being arrogant...and I say that because of:

Jer 8:8(NIV)
" 'How can you say, "We are wise,
for we have the law of the LORD,"
when actually the lying pen of the scribes
has handled it falsely?


See? We don't know for sure...so lets quit acting like we do.

Here is my question:

Why not give our youth's the various schools-of-though and let them choose...or not choose?

Hugs,
CC
 

lux et lex

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Absolutely not in science class. Creationism =/= science. Let the kids take an optional World Cultures class and fit it in there, but if creationism was being taught in schools in science class I would pull my kid from class. It belongs in the churches not the classroom.
 
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chingchang

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Absolutely not in science class. Creationism =/= science. Let the kids take an optional World Cultures class and fit it in there, but if creationism was being taught in schools in science class I would pull my kid from class. It belongs in the churches not the classroom.

Why? If God created this world...then he created science. Science is simply man's way of discovering and explaining what God created. IMHO of course...

CC
 
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lux et lex

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Not everyone believes in God. Public schools are not the place to indoctrinate children with your religious ideals. They have other things to learn about. If you want indoctrination of your religious ideals to occur, send your kids to Sunday School...or Private school.
 
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AoDoA

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Brothers/Sisters,

So...all of this creationism vs. evolution debate over the years and what should be taught in public schools has interested me...but not to the point where I've gotten emotionally involved. Looking back...I've been rather aloof in terms of my seeking regarding this issue. However...reading another thread in the "Christian Current Affairs" section got me thinking. Then it hit me...why does it have to be one or another? Why not teach kids the following in our public school systems:

1. Evolution Theory
2. World Religion Creationism
3. Other misc. theory

Why this overt attempt to control the thinking of our youth when the truth is WE DON'T KNOW FOR SURE? We just think we know! The simple fact is none of us were alive back then. It just seems to me that this is the most humble approach. We should avoid being arrogant...and I say that because of:

Jer 8:8(NIV)
" 'How can you say, "We are wise,
for we have the law of the LORD,"
when actually the lying pen of the scribes
has handled it falsely?


See? We don't know for sure...so lets quit acting like we do.

Here is my question:

Why not give our youth's the various schools-of-though and let them choose...or not choose?

Hugs,
CC

I'm all for letting children choose for themselves and to be given all the points of view in a non biased way

unfortunately the atheist religion has hi-jacked the schools and the scientific hierarchy... and peoples own beliefs and bias's spill into their teaching so its not possible IMO

not to mention the fact that most atheist's believe that the problem with this world is God and seek to brush Him under the rug and eliminate Him from human consciousness
 
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AoDoA

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Absolutely not in science class. Creationism =/= science. Let the kids take an optional World Cultures class and fit it in there, but if creationism was being taught in schools in science class I would pull my kid from class. It belongs in the churches not the classroom.

you act as if there is a scientific consensus and there is absolutely not

you may want to do a search for Lee Spetner's book "Not by Chance! Shattering the modern theory of evolution"
 
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chingchang

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Not everyone believes in God. Public schools are not the place to indoctrinate children with your religious ideals. They have other things to learn about. If you want indoctrination of your religious ideals to occur, send your kids to Sunday School...or Private school.

I couldn't agree more on indoctrination. But...if we don't present all sides to this debate...and it is a debate because nobody knows the truth for sure...then we ARE indoctrinating our children. If we only teach them the theory of evolution...then we are indoctrinating our children into an Atheist/Agnostic/etc. system of belief based on "science". Simply because some believe that God doesn't exist doesn't mean we can't teach creationism side-by-side with evolution in schools. We wouldn't be teaching our children..."you must believe in God"...we'd be teaching them "this is what some people believe and this is why they believe it". We actually have more proof of intelligent design than we do random evolution.

CC
 
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OllieFranz

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If anyone could produce a scientific model of Creationism [one which looked at all the evidence, picked out a generous subset of that evidence (80% -99%, the larger the better), comprehensively attempted to explain that evidence, and suggested other pieces of evidence to look for, which are found where the suggestion predicted] then it would be taught in science alongside Evolution. After all, Newtonian physics, Relativity, and Quantum mechanics are all taught side by side. A scientific model (I prefer the word model to the word theory in these discussions) does not pretend to describe every possible thing in the Universe, it merely tries to make some of Nature's laws comprehensible.

But no Creationist ever attempts to do this. It's much easier to just insist that one's beliefs be taught as fact. The only "science" ever presented is criticism of certain conclusions of the Evolution model. About half to three-quarters of the criticisms show the critics poor understanding of the Evolution model, or of science in general. The rest either announces minor differences of details between different researchers as though they threaten the very foundation of the basic model, or are rhetorical questions of obvious disbelief. (For an example of the last: "Why aren't any fossils or coal or oil being formed today?")
 
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jpcedotal

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Absolutely not in science class. Creationism =/= science. Let the kids take an optional World Cultures class and fit it in there, but if creationism was being taught in schools in science class I would pull my kid from class. It belongs in the churches not the classroom.

As does evolution...I vote to take both out.

I do not want a public teacher teaching my children religion...either religion.
 
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jpcedotal

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Not everyone believes in God. Public schools are not the place to indoctrinate children with your religious ideals. They have other things to learn about. If you want indoctrination of your religious ideals to occur, send your kids to Sunday School...or Private school.

Not everyone believes that evolution is science....so until it is take it out of the schools, along with global warming.
 
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lux et lex

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By not teaching evolution, you're doing a disservice to children. What if some of the children want to become doctors? At most reputable institutions, one of the pre-requisite classes in college for taking the MCAT/being admitted to medical school is Evolution.

It's science class. Evolution is a scientific theory. Creationism is not. Or are you one of those people like my aunt who opposing teaching about dinosaurs because they didn't happen and the bones are a "treasure hunt from God"? Scientific theories are taught in science class. Religious theories are taught in religion or world cultures classes. I'm not coming into your church and trying to teach evolution, so stay out of my public schools with your creationism.
 
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jpcedotal

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By not teaching evolution, you're doing a disservice to children. What if some of the children want to become doctors? At most reputable institutions, one of the pre-requisite classes in college for taking the MCAT/being admitted to medical school is Evolution.

It's science class. Evolution is a scientific theory. Creationism is not. Or are you one of those people like my aunt who opposing teaching about dinosaurs because they didn't happen and the bones are a "treasure hunt from God"? Scientific theories are taught in science class. Religious theories are taught in religion or world cultures classes. I'm not coming into your church and trying to teach evolution, so stay out of my public schools with your creationism.

That is called brain-washing. There is not enough proof to support your opinion. Children should be treated fairly. Leave evolution for college, and only then as an elective.

It really isn't that important anyways...
 
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chingchang

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It's science class. Evolution is a scientific theory. Creationism is not. Or are you one of those people like my aunt who opposing teaching about dinosaurs because they didn't happen and the bones are a "treasure hunt from God"? Scientific theories are taught in science class. Religious theories are taught in religion or world cultures classes. I'm not coming into your church and trying to teach evolution, so stay out of my public schools with your creationism.
What distinguishes religion from science? What if God really did create our world? Then...can we make an attempt to explain how he did it via science? You can't separate the two if God did indeed make our world. If he did not...then you'd be correct...keep the two separate. Since that is the position you take...which is an Atheist position...then the current public school system (with regards to this issue) is an indoctrination into Atheism...which doesn't seem fair.

My point is that we shouldn't indoctrinate the children in public schools into ANY one system of belief...but should instead be teaching them all major systems of belief. By doing this we would be laying the ground work for teaching them how to think critically...which the masses currently do not do. We'd be teaching them to question EVERYTHING and to seek the truth through all available means.

Just IMHO of course,
CC
 
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jpcedotal

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I don't want any kids brain-washed by evolution or Creationism. I want them to become old enough to make that decision on their own. I will teach my kids Creationism, and you teach your evolution.

Quit trying to force your religion on my children, and I will do the same.
 
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OllieFranz

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As does evolution...I vote to take both out.

I do not want a public teacher teaching my children religion...either religion.
???:confused:???:confused:???:confused:???

Please explain exactly how you define the Evolution model as "religion."

Is cartography (map-making) also a religion?
 
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chingchang

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I don't want any kids brain-washed by evolution or Creationism. I want them to become old enough to make that decision on their own. I will teach my kids Creationism, and you teach your evolution.

Quit trying to force your religion on my children, and I will do the same.

Well...the same argument could be applied to history. The version of history (especially as it applies to our country) taught in the classroom is the sanitized version...and in some cases contains outright lies. Do you think history should be taught in public schools?

There is nothing inherently wrong with teaching children the theory of evolution...as we may find one day that this theory (although containing a few flaws) works in harmony with creationism and was the method that God used when bringing about life. I simply don't know...and either does you or anyone else. But...there is nothing wrong with educating children to the various schools-of-thought.

CC
 
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lps738

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The US constitution states that no preference should be given to any religion, and if we are going to "teach the controversy" in a way that isn't un-constitutional, then should we not also include Norse, Hindu, Egyptian, and Native American mythology etc. Say I 'discover' and publicize that life on Earth came from Mercurian ants directed by Barack Obama's The Audacity of Hope? The constitution says
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
This goes both ways, preventing the establishment of an Iranian style theocracy or a Soviet or Chinese athiest state. However, children need to be educated in evolution, otherwise we wouldn't have such things as modern medicine, agriculture, and pretty much anything relating to biology. And while scientists do not know everything about evolution, and have disagreements over its rate, variables, factors, etc. this does not mean that we should completely discard it. There IS a scientific consensus! If you want the USA to remain a scientific and technological leader in the 21st century, you have to allow the teaching of basic biological and scientific pillars.


List of scientific groups that support evolution:
  • American Association for the Advancement of Science
  • American Society for Biochemistry and Molecular Biology
  • Botanical Society of America
  • The European Union
  • American Association of University Professors
  • American Astronomical Society
  • American Chemical Society
  • American Geophysical Union
  • American Institute of Physics
  • National Association of Biology Teachers
  • National Science Teachers Association
  • United States National Academy of Sciences
  • Royal Society of London for the Improvement of Natural Knowledge
  • Royal Astronomical Society of Canada
Now tell me that these groups representing hundreds of thousands of university educated biologists, chemists, physicists, etc. are in conflict with the scientific community.

(further more, please show me any peer-reviewed experiment backed biological research papers that disprove evolution)

11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
 
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ParanoidAndroid

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Simple - teach science in the science classroom and teach religion in the Religious Studies classroom!

Most forms of Creationism are simply an attempt to bring the Bible into the classroom! Intelligent Design is a little better, though even then sometimes it is just a rebadged Creationism (anyone ever hear of the "CIntelligent Designism" controversy). Creationism deals with beliefs, Evolution deals with science - teach both, but in their proper contexts (Science Class Religious Studies class).

Evolution is both fact and theory. Creationism is neither.
~ Anonymous saying


~ Regards, PA
 
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