County hot over ACLU prayer lawsuit

[molder]

MARIETTA, Ga. (AP) -- Cobb County officials are asking a federal judge to dismiss a lawsuit filed in August by the Georgia Chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union charging the county with making "overly Christian" prayers before meetings.
link: http://www.cbs46.com/Global/story.asp?S=3999879&nav=E8ZR



The First Amendment was not written to protect the nonreligious from the religious, but to protect the religious people from government interference. This is quite opposite to what the ACLU is trying to make government do.

 

[TeddyKGB]

MARIETTA, Ga. (AP)
The First Amendment was not written to protect the nonreligious from the religious, but to protect the religious people from government interference.

Have you read the First Amendment lately? There are two religion clauses, you know.

This is quite opposite to what the ACLU is trying to make government do.

It sure would be nice if we could all realize that strict state neutrality is the best for all parties.

 

[TwinCrier]

Unfortunately many people think the prayers of others violates their rights. Too bad, so sad.

 

[rebelEnigma]

It seems that only Christian prayers are deemed unacceptable.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/007997.php

These people and the ACLU are just dripping with hypocrisy. I have no problem with Muslims wanting to pray in schools, but if thats the case, then Christians should be allowed to pray. It makes sense right? I guess the ACLU should change its name to the "Anti-Christian Liberties Union," if they say otherwise.

 

[TeddyKGB]

It seems that only Christian prayers are deemed unacceptable.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/007997.php

These people and the ACLU are just dripping with hypocrisy. I have no problem with Muslims wanting to pray in schools, but if thats the case, then Christians should be allowed to pray. It makes sense right? I guess the ACLU should change its name to the "Anti-Christian Liberties Union," if they say otherwise.

At no point has the ACLU opposed the right of any individual, Christian or otherwise, to pray in a school setting.

This is completely unrelated to the issue of mandatory, school-wide, or teacher-led prayer.

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

Hey look, another thread with the religious right making up things for Jesus! I'm sure Jesus is so proud....

 

[Ozymandius]

Unfortunately many people think the prayers of others violates their rights. Too bad, so sad.

Obviously not the issue. See Teddy's post.

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

From Rebels article

CLIFFSIDE PARK, New Jersey (AP) -- Yasmeen Elsamra had a simple request: While her classmates were eating lunch, she wanted to go off by herself for a few moments to pray.
The 14-year-old was told she couldn't, and went home distraught that afternoon in October 2003. Praying five times a day is a cornerstone of her Muslim faith.

Where in the US can you not go and pray in a school? That is obviously illegal if the school doesn't allow you to pray. Why aren't you calling the ACLU when this happens?

I hate religious right propoganda. Why do you think that it is okay to not tell the truth?

 

[molder]

The founding fathers of the USA never intended to establish a government of secularism whereby this is the official religion of the state.

The First Continental Congress, Tuesday, September 6, 1774, their first official act was a call to prayer at 9:00am.

Ever since the First Continental Congress each session of Congress is still started with an opening prayer.

The First Prayer in Congress
September 6, 1774
by; Rev. Jacob [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]
​

O' Lord our Heavenly Father, high and mighty King of kings, and Lord of lords, who dost from Thy throne behold all the dwellers on earth and reignest with power supreme and uncontolled over all the Kingdoms, Empires and Governments; look down in mercy, we beseech thee, on these our American States, who have fled to Thee from the rod of the oppressor and thrown themselves on Thy gracious protection, desiring to be henceforth dependent only on Thee, to Thee have they appealed for the righteousness of their cause; to Thee do they now look up for that countenance and support, which Thou alone canst give; take them, therefore, Heavenly Father, under Thy nurturing care; give them Wisdom in Council and Valor in the field; defeat the malicious designs of our cruel adversaries; convince them of the unrighteousness of their cause and if they persist in their sanguinary purposes, of own unerring justice, sounding in their hearts, constrain them to drop the weapons of war from their unnerved hands in the day of battle!

Be Thou present, 0' God of wisdom, and direct the councils of this honorable assembly; enable them to settle things on the best and surest foundation. That the scene of blood may be speedily closed; that order, harmony and peace may be effectually restored, and truth and justice, religion and piety, prevail and flourish amongst the people.

Preserve the health of their bodies and vigor of their minds; shower down on them and the millions they here represent, such temporal blessings as Thou seest expedient for them in this world and crown them with everlasting glory in the world to come. All this we ask in the name and through the merits of Jesus Christ, Thy Son and our Savior. Amen

http://www.basecamp.cnchost.com/congpray.htm

 

[crazyfingers]

MARIETTA, Ga. (AP) -- Cobb County officials are asking a federal judge to dismiss a lawsuit filed in August by the Georgia Chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union charging the county with making "overly Christian" prayers before meetings.
link: http://www.cbs46.com/Global/story.asp?S=3999879&nav=E8ZR



The First Amendment was not written to protect the nonreligious from the religious, but to protect the religious people from government interference. This is quite opposite to what the ACLU is trying to make government do.

The first amendment protects everyone from government sponsorship of religion. Sorry. You are wrong.

 

[crazyfingers]

Unfortunately many people think the prayers of others violates their rights. Too bad, so sad.

Please be specific. There are prayers that are conducted in non-government sponsored events and there are prayers at government sponsired events. Government sponsorship of religions activity is a violation of the right that everyone has to be free from government promotion of one religious point of view over another.

 

[TwinCrier]

So when attending a government sponsored event, whatever that means, one must forfit religious freedom at the door?

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

So when attending a government sponsored event, whatever that means, one must forfit religious freedom at the door?

No, only the ones who are acting as an agent of a state. If you go to a governmemt sponsored event, you may pray as much or as little as you want, to whichever deity as you wish. If you are the principle of a high school, you may not lead the crowd at a pep rally, acting as a principle, in prayer to your chosen deity.

See the difference? If not, perhaps I can explain it better.

 

[crazyfingers]

It seems that only Christian prayers are deemed unacceptable.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/007997.php

These people and the ACLU are just dripping with hypocrisy. I have no problem with Muslims wanting to pray in schools, but if thats the case, then Christians should be allowed to pray. It makes sense right? I guess the ACLU should change its name to the "Anti-Christian Liberties Union," if they say otherwise.

You can't be serious.

That was a situation of private prayer. The ACLU and the law agree that private prayer and even voluntary group prayer in school is just fine so long as the school doesn't sponsor it or either encourage or discourage anyone from participating, or hold anyone as a captive audience.

The other is a situation of government sponsored prayer.

Geezz. Please learn about the issues. HERE would be a good place to start.

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

You can't be serious.

That was a situation of private prayer. The ACLU and the law agree that private prayer and even voluntary group prayer in school is just fine so long as the school doesn't sponsor it or either encourage or discourage anyone from participating, or hold anyone as a captive audience.

The other is a situation of government sponsored prayer.

Geezz. Please learn about the issues. HERE would be a good place to start.

There used to be a time on these boards when I could tell the religious right people that purposely misrepresent the facts, from the poor Christians that get sucked into believing them, because they wouldn't think that the religious right would lie to them, because they are Christian, and Christians aren't supposed to lie.

But, as I stay away from most other forums on here now, I don't get a full picture of who each poster is, and the line has been blurred. People like Rebel.. I'm not sure if he is doing it on purpose, or has been sucked in.

/weird rant thingy

 

[Voegelin]

During FDR's adminsration the Federal Theatre Project produced The first legion: a Jesuit play by Emmet Lavery. Posters of a robed man kneeing at the foot of a cross were designed and printed by the federal Works Progress Administration (WPA).

What we see today is not the liberalism of our parents and grandparents. It is this:

 

[crazyfingers]

So when attending a government sponsored event, whatever that means, one must forfit religious freedom at the door?

It might be useful to learn the issues. One can't use the authority of government to further one religious point of view over another. What you do as a private individual or with other private individuals is up to you. Just don't use government authority to do it.

 

[crazyfingers]

During FDR's adminsration the Federal Theatre Project produced The first legion: a Jesuit play by Emmet Lavery. Posters of a robed man kneeing at the foot of a cross were designed and printed by the federal Works Progress Administration (WPA).

What we see today is not the liberalism of our parents and grandparents. It is this:

The principle of separation between church and state is that government can not promote one religious idea over another religious idea or promote religion over non-religion or vice versa.

Do you think that that principle is just or do you think that it's unjust?

 

[TeddyKGB]

So when attending a government sponsored event, whatever that means, one must forfit religious freedom at the door?

Meaninglessly vague. I could pray as much as I want, whenever I want, wherever I want, but I could not address the entire congregation with "Okay, everyone stop what you're doing. It's time to pray to Jesus."

 

[TeddyKGB]

During FDR's adminsration the Federal Theatre Project produced The first legion: a Jesuit play by Emmet Lavery. Posters of a robed man kneeing at the foot of a cross were designed and printed by the federal Works Progress Administration (WPA).

What we see today is not the liberalism of our parents and grandparents. It is this:

That's two fallacies. First, the state that enforces strict separation is not thereby engaging in socialistic governance. Second, the fact that Soviet socialism was explicitly separationist (anti-religion, to be truthful) does not make strict separation bad.