Conversation with all members of OBOB Politics area

[Davidnic]

By always putting us down like saying conservatives are stupid, that we aren't rational and a host of other things and getting away with it. They got their own place they need to go there

What place? The political forum is for all Catholics of all countries and political views. And our guests.

The Catholic Church has teachings that are both politically liberal and conservative. As well as ones that do not fit either.

Neither side is mandated to go anywhere else. But they should discuss things civilly on both sides.

 

[Starcrystal]

I will chime in here and keep it simple. I was also married to a Catholic, my late wife, though she was reformed and became born again, we attended a home church that was ran by a Salvation Army preacher who married us, but she always identified with Catholic roots as well.

Simple:
Abortion is sin.
Homosexuality is sin.
inappropriate contentography is sin.
CAFOs are sin.
Aerial Wolf hunting by Sarah Palin is sin.
Illegal Whale hunting by Japan in Antarctic waters is sin.
Terrorism and the Religion that supports it is sin.
Adultery is sin.
Fornication is sin.
Clear cutting vast forests and old growth trees, exploitation and abuse of the environment, and pollution is sin (Revelation 11:18)
Nuclear bombs are sin.
Hate is sin.
Racism is sin.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Someone who has flagrantly broken forum roles for years (such as the rules against sock accounts) shouldn't become a mod.

If hacker can be hired as security analyst by companies because they understand how to break into a system an old rule breaker like me should be able to understand how to keep order

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

I will chime in here and keep it simple. I was also married to a Catholic, my late wife, though she was reformed and became born again, we attended a home church that was ran by a Salvation Army preacher who married us, but she always identified with Catholic roots as well.

Simple:
Abortion is sin.
Homosexuality is sin.
inappropriate contentography is sin.
CAFOs are sin.
Aerial Wolf hunting by Sarah Palin is sin.
Illegal Whale hunting by Japan in Antarctic waters is sin.
Terrorism and the Religion that supports it is sin.
Adultery is sin.
Fornication is sin.
Clear cutting vast forests and old growth trees, exploitation and abuse of the environment, and pollution is sin (Revelation 11:18)
Nuclear bombs are sin.
Hate is sin.
Racism is sin.

CAFOs ?

 

[hsilgne]

So who is...for their part willing to try what is in the OP?

Just curious. Is it worth a try to have civil discourse?

I'm willing to try David.


1 Peter 4:8

Sent from my STV100-3 using Tapatalk

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Ok

Ok, ok ,ok.......

I'll try. Because of this speech. Someone obvious wrote for him and he delivered it ineloquently but George Bush in Dallas today said this:

“At times, it seems like the forces pulling us apart are stronger than the forces binding us together,”

“Argument turns too easily into animosity. Disagreement escalates too quickly into dehumanization. Too often we judge other groups by their worst examples, while judging ourselves by our best intentions.”

“And this has strained our bonds of understanding and common purpose.

“But Americans, I think, have a great advantage. To renew our unity, we only need to remember our values. We have never been held together by blood or background. We are bound by things of the spirit ― by shared commitments to common ideals.

“At our best, we practice empathy, imagining ourselves in the lives and circumstances of others. This is the bridge across our nation’s deepest divisions. And it is not merely a matter of tolerance, but of learning from the struggles and stories of our fellow citizens, and finding our better selves in the process.

“At our best, we honor the image of God we see in one another. We recognize that we are brothers and sisters, sharing the same brief moment on earth, and owing each other the loyalty of our shared humanity.

“At our best, we know we have one country, one future, one destiny. We do not want the unity of grief. Nor do we want the unity of fear. We want the unity of hope, affection, and high purpose.”

 

[Michie]

So who is...for their part willing to try what is in the OP?

Just curious. Is it worth a try to have civil discourse?

Raises hand in the affirmative.

 

[topcare]

So who is...for their part willing to try what is in the OP?

Just curious. Is it worth a try to have civil discourse?

Never if it means compromising values and it usually us conservatives who are expected to compromise, no more. Here I stand firm and here is where I get tried of being considered lower life form because I am a conservative in all aspects of my life. I will not compromise!

 

[Davidnic]

Never if it means compromising values and it usually us conservatives who are expected to compromise, no more. Here I stand firm and here is where I get tried of being considered lower life form because I am a conservative in all aspects of my life. I will not compromise!

This has nothing to do with being conservative unless someone would say to be conservative they must be uncivil. Which would not be the case.

This should not be hard since what I am asking is not massively different from the sop

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/statement-of-purpose-obob-general-politics.7539120/

 

[RKO]

This has nothing to do with being conservative unless someone would say to be conservative they must be uncivil. Which would not be the case.

This should not be hard since what I am asking is not massively different from the sop

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/statement-of-purpose-obob-general-politics.7539120/

Well, that's the thing, David. Some on both sides see the idea of playing nice as caving in on their values. They are in a holy war against the opposition and you want to take their bullets away.
That's the mindset and that's where the problem lies.
You've seen posts here that suggest that the mainline Catholic forum belongs to the poster's group and others should go somewhere else. As if OBOB belongs to them and we Catholics who aren't conservative are interlopers. Another person on this thread suggested that to be Catholic is to be conservative. And they believe that to be true, so I understand their frustration. They think they are being run out of here by us evil liberals and they think the Pope is trying to change the church against them. I'm sure it's a frightening thing if you are that far in.
Liberals do the same thing. We get so deep in our battles against each other that we get blinded to certain realities.
I post very little anymore, so I won't start a fight. And I commend your optimism, David, but this won't hold.
At the end of the day we are all just a bunch of jerks. At least we are when we post here.

 

[pdudgeon]

OK, but I've seen conservatives slinging the mud around too. Both sides have members that do that and that's part of the problem. Being blind to one side because one agrees with that side just makes it worse. There are plenty of times I think a more liberal person has crossed the line.

i agree. the problem is on both sides.
the point is that there are already mechanisims in place to take care of the problem.
even the proposal to disengage is nothing new, but is a part of that mechanism
that has been set in place to deal with these problems.

but without adding the encouragement to report such offending posts,
it ties the hands of staff to deal adequately with the problem.
and thus the problem remains cemented in place to re-offend at will.

essentially the advice to just ignore and refuse to engage is like turning your back on a garden of weeds
and throwing up your hands, expecting the weeds to die on their own for lack of care.

Yes, eventually the weeds will die. but so will the rest of the garden.
and if still nothing is done, then the seeds from those dead plants will take root once again
and produce a new bumper crop that is worse than before.

 

[pdudgeon]

This has nothing to do with being conservative unless someone would say to be conservative they must be uncivil. Which would not be the case.

This should not be hard since what I am asking is not massively different from the sop

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/statement-of-purpose-obob-general-politics.7539120/

nooo, what is expected around here is that the conservative traditionalists will be the ones to lay down, back away, and disengage,
thus leaving the field open for the liberals to take over and become the voice of OBOB.
that has been the grand plan from day one.

 

[Davidnic]

nooo, what is expected around here is that the conservative traditionalists will be the ones to lay down, back away, and disengage,
thus leaving the field open for the liberals to take over and become the voice of OBOB.
that has been the grand plan from day one.

Whose grand plan?

 

[Davidnic]

Well, that's the thing, David. Some on both sides see the idea of playing nice as caving in on their values. They are in a holy war against the opposition and you want to take their bullets away.
That's the mindset and that's where the problem lies.
You've seen posts here that suggest that the mainline Catholic forum belongs to the poster's group and others should go somewhere else. As if OBOB belongs to them and we Catholics who aren't conservative are interlopers. Another person on this thread suggested that to be Catholic is to be conservative. And they believe that to be true, so I understand their frustration. They think they are being run out of here by us evil liberals and they think the Pope is trying to change the church against them. I'm sure it's a frightening thing if you are that far in.
Liberals do the same thing. We get so deep in our battles against each other that we get blinded to certain realities.
I post very little anymore, so I won't start a fight. And I commend your optimism, David, but this won't hold.
At the end of the day we are all just a bunch of jerks. At least we are when we post here.

But we can choose not to be jerks. We can choose that 3/4 or 1/2 the time. Not perfectly but the effort can be made.

 

[RKO]

But we can choose not to be jerks. We can choose that 3/4 or 1/2 the time. Not perfectly but the effort can be made.

You're a good man, a teacher, and a natural leader.

 

[benedictaoo]

I agree with you, Michie and my witness on the board is poor. But at the same time I feel as though I am amongst friends and can be myself. I think we give too much of the benefit to lurkers sometimes though by feeling we have to be 'perfect'. We are all human and have our human moments. I'm glad I can do that here.

Exactly. Back in the day, and I'm going way back in the day our focus was different and we kept our personal lives out of it. The Catholic forum fell a long time ago and we need to face up to that. Now its not for what it was for then. Another thing and I am speaking to Michie, as well as others. Stop trying to make this into what you think it should be. Everybody has an opinion how it should be. Just let it be. The one opinion I have is we need to STOP!!!! And I can't stress this enough, STOP banning members!!!!! If they are not going to root out the real trouble maker, STOP!!!! banning the targets of the trouble maker!!! Just stop!!!

 

[Davidnic]

Finally, all of you, be of one mind, sympathetic, loving toward one another, compassionate, humble. Do not return evil for evil, or insult for insult; but, on the contrary, a blessing, because to this you were called, that you might inherit a blessing.
1 Peter 3:8-9

Peter does not say we should not strongly contend our point. But he does show us how Christians should be. Not returning evil for evil or insult for insult.

And if you believe you are defending the will of God:

But even if you should suffer because of righteousness, blessed are you. Do not be afraid or terrified with fear of them, but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts. Always be ready to give an explanation to anyone who asks you for a reason for your Hope; but do it with gentleness and reverence, keeping your conscience clear, so that, when you are maligned, those who defame your good conduct in Christ may themselves be put to shame.
1 Peter 3: 14-16

What I am asking is not to abandon values but to abandon vitriol. If you believe your Brother or Sister has fallen into a set of beliefs that are harmful:

Avoid foolish and ignorant debates, for you know that they breed quarrels. A slave of the Lord should not quarrel, but should be gentle with everyone, able to teach, tolerant, correcting opponents with kindness. It may be that God will grant them repentance that leads to knowledge of the truth
2 Timothy 2:23-35

This is what I am asking.

 

[benedictaoo]

You're a good man, a teacher, and a natural leader.

Yep, and we have some members who totally use that to their advantage. David, I'm going to be straight because I know no other way to be, this is pointless because we simply can not discuss the real problem that I know is on everybody's mind. You need to make a total free zone where we can get the real problem out in the open, free from repercussions.

 

[benedictaoo]

I want to be a mod.


Just thought I'd throw that in here

Lord Jesus help us if that's the case.

 

[benedictaoo]

Finally, all of you, be of one mind, sympathetic, loving toward one another, compassionate, humble. Do not return evil for evil, or insult for insult; but, on the contrary, a blessing, because to this you were called, that you might inherit a blessing.
1 Peter 3:8-9

Peter does not say we should not strongly contend our point. But he does show us how Christians should be. Not returning evil for evil or insult for insult.

And if you believe you are defending the will of God:

But even if you should suffer because of righteousness, blessed are you. Do not be afraid or terrified with fear of them, but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts. Always be ready to give an explanation to anyone who asks you for a reason for your Hope; but do it with gentleness and reverence, keeping your conscience clear, so that, when you are maligned, those who defame your good conduct in Christ may themselves be put to shame.
1 Peter 3: 14-16

What I am asking is not to abandon values but to abandon vitriol. If you believe your Brother or Sister has fallen into a set of beliefs that are harmful:

Avoid foolish and ignorant debates, for you know that they breed quarrels. A slave of the Lord should not quarrel, but should be gentle with everyone, able to teach, tolerant, correcting opponents with kindness. It may be that God will grant them repentance that leads to knowledge of the truth
2 Timothy 2:23-35

This is what I am asking.

Then frankly put, get rid of the one who incites it and fly's under the radar.