Controversial Facebook Group is Controversial

nightflight

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A Facebook community called “Islamic Female Circumcision” was launched earlier this month with the stated goal of clarifying “misconceptions” around the Muslim faith’s practice of female genital mutilation or FGM.

The page already has more than a dozen posts, including articles and infographics advocating for the practice of what they call "female circumcision," instead of referring to the practice as 'mutilation.'


http://www.foreigndesknews.com/lisa...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
 
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Chesterton

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Hmm, so Michael Douglas was right.

But they say it's a cultural practice, not an Islamic practice. Someone needs to tell these folks.

Also, the always popular blame-the-Jews was unexpected here, but a nice creative touch. :rolleyes:
 
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Chesterton

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It IS a cultural practice. Nubian Christians practiced it for a long time.. that is until Islam invaded and wiped Christianity out of what used to be Nubia.
If they were doing it before Islam came, they didn't stop doing it when Islam took over. Nubian Christians lived in an Arab-dominated, Islam-dominated culture.
 
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Redac

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It IS a cultural practice. Nubian Christians practiced it for a long time.. that is until Islam invaded and wiped Christianity out of what used to be Nubia.
A little of column A, a little of column B. In Africa, yes, it's practiced by a number of different cultures, both Muslim and non-Muslim. It also happens outside of Africa, though, and outside of Africa it's done almost exclusively by Muslims.

It's a cultural thing in sub-Saharan Africa, but outside of there it's very much about Islam.
 
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ChristsSoldier115

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If they were doing it before Islam came, they didn't stop doing it when Islam took over. Nubian Christians lived in an Arab-dominated, Islam-dominated culture.
They were doing this prior to Islam. They will do it after Islam.
 
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ChristsSoldier115

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A little of column A, a little of column B. In Africa, yes, it's practiced by a number of different cultures, both Muslim and non-Muslim. It also happens outside of Africa, though, and outside of Africa it's done almost exclusively by Muslims.

Or perhaps in countries where Islam presides in the majority? I know you have a hard time imagining that barbarism like female circumcision exists outside of Islam, but it does. Its a practice that predates Islam, Islam just does not disapprove of it.

In Africa, FGM is known to be practiced among certain communities in 29 countries: Benin, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Chad, Cote d'Ivoire, Democratic Republic of Congo, Djibouti, Egypt, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Gambia, Ghana, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Kenya, Liberia, Mali, Mauritania, Niger, Nigeria, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Somalia, Sudan, Tanzania, Togo, Uganda and Zambia.

Certain ethnic groups in Asian countries practice FGM, including in communities in India, Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.

In the Middle East, the practice occurs in Oman, the United Arab Emirates and Yemen, as well as in Iraq, Iran, the State of Palestine and Israel.

In South America, certain communities are known to practice FGM in Columbia, Ecuador and Peru.

And in many western countries, including Australia, Canada, Europe, the United States and the United Kingdom, FGM is practiced among diaspora populations from areas where the practice is common.

http://www.unfpa.org/resources/female-genital-mutilation-fgm-frequently-asked-questions#who_performs
 
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Chesterton

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They were doing this prior to Islam. They will do it after Islam.
I'm confused. Your first post seems to say they stopped doing it because Islam wiped out Christianity, which is wrong on two counts. One, Islam didn't stop it, and two, saying the practice stopped because Christianity was gone implies that it was a Christian practice not merely a cultural practice.

And my point in what I said was just "look, here's more Muslims thinking they know their religion better than us." Whenever they're doing something we disapprove of, like mass murder or FGM, they say they're doing in in the name of Islam, and they don't care to listen when we tell them they're not.
 
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ChristsSoldier115

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I'm confused. Your first post seems to say they stopped doing it because Islam wiped out Christianity, which is wrong on two counts. One, Islam didn't stop it, and two saying the practice stopped because Christianity was gone implies that it was a Christian practice not merely a cultural practice.

And my point in what I said was just "look, here's more Muslims thinking they know their religion better than us." Whenever they're doing something we disapprove of, like mass murder or FGM, they say they're doing in in the name of Islam, and they don't care to listen when we tell them they're not.
Well I worded it weird, let me correct you.

It is a cultural thing. It is not a Christian thing, nor is it a Islam thing. Christianity obviously didn't find a problem in it, because Christianity does not overwrite existing cultures entirely with its teachings. Since the Bible didn't say it was bad, Nubia continued with it. Islam doesn't say is bad, so they continue it. Its called contextualization. Many cultures have done it with our faith since its founding.
 
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Redac

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Or perhaps in countries where Islam presides in the majority?
These things are not unrelated or coincidental.

Female genital mutilation Type I and IV is prevalent in Indonesia;[202][203][204][205] 97.5%[205] of the surveyed females from Muslim families (Muslim females are at least 85%[206] of females in Indonesia) are mutilated by age 18. In certain communities of Indonesia, mass female circumcision (khitanan massal) ceremony are organized by local Islamic foundations around Prophet Muhammad’s birthday. Some FGM are Type IV done with a pen knife, others are Type I done with scissors. Two Indonesian nationwide studies in 2003 and 2010 found over 80% of the cases sampled involved cutting, typically of newborns through the age of 9. The surveys demonstrated that circumcision among girls and boys is a universal practice in the study sites, in all of which Islam was the primary religion. Across the sites, among all the children aged 15–18, 86-100% of the girls were reported already circumcised. More than 90% of families visited in the studies claimed they wanted the practice to continue.[203][207]Historical records suggest female circumcision in Indonesia started and became prevalent with the arrival of Islam in the 13th century as part of its drive to convert people to Islam. In islands of Indonesia, where partial populations converted to Islam in the 17th century, FGM has been prevalent in Muslim females only.[208][209] In 2006, FGM was banned by the government; however, FGM/C remained commonplace for women in Indonesia - the world’s largest Muslim nation.[210] In 2010, the Indonesian Health Ministry issued a decree outlining the proper procedure for FGM, which activists claim contradicted the 2006 ruling prohibiting clinics from performing any FGM.[211] In 2013, the Indonesian Ulema Council ruled that it favors FGM, stating that although it is not mandatory, it is still “morally recommended”.[212] The Ulema has been pushing Indonesian government to circumcise girls, claiming it is part of Islamic teachings.[213] Some Indonesian officials, in March 2013, claimed cutting and pricking type circumcision is not FGM.[214]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_female_genital_mutilation_by_country

There are plenty of cited sources in the Wiki article, so you can't just dismiss it because "lol it's wiki so it's meaningless".

Note that this apparently did not happen in Indonesia until Islam arrived. Note also Malaysia and other places in South and Southeast Asia. These are different cultures and places with different people, but the thing that you find in common is that it happens in Muslim communities. In Africa, yeah, it's not limited to a particular religion. Outside Africa? With very few exceptions, it's something that really only shows up in Muslim communities. This is not a coincidence.

I know you have a hard time imagining that barbarism like female circumcision exists outside of Islam, but it does.
Do I? I didn't know that's what I thought or said. Thank you for informing me of what's going on in my head, I had no idea before you told me.

Its a practice that predates Islam, Islam just does not disapprove of it.
Yes, but to claim that it isn't related to Islam in lots of places is dishonest. It occurs in places that are culturally and geographically distant, but that share Islam in common. Muslim leaders in lots of places encourage it because they believe it to be preferable to leaving women uncircumcised. It's clearly being done for religious reasons.
 
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Rick Otto

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I have had contact with Nigerians , Kenyans, & Sudanese here in Omaha, NE and in Minnesota and Wisconsin.
Female mutilation is shockingly common among African Christians.
Even here in America, it can happen.
I ain't citin' nothin' but my own experience, take it or leave it.
 
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grandvizier1006

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Forgive me for sounding ignorant, but aside from loss of pleasure what is the difference between this and make circumcision of the penis?

I ask because I'm "cut" like other young men in my specific generation and country (AIDS fears, I think). When people rail about how evil circumcising your baby boy it makes me feel uncomfortable because it feels like I'm being assigned as a "cursed" or "abused" person. My parents didn't abuse me, they just followed some doctor's advice. It's really not that bad. But people seem to equate the two practices because they both result in "loss of sexual pleasure". That's not really true for me, it just means "more work".

So is this practice as barbaric as I've been told or is this just Western individualism obsessing over sex?
 
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Male circumcision lowers your risk of Penile cancer and the risk of contracting a sexually contracted illness from an infected person.
It has however been shown to decrease sensation to the glans of the penis, meaning diminished sexual satisfaction but only marginally, and being circumscised increases skin irritation and superficial infection to the glans of the penis of the non-sexual kind.

Female circumcision has no health benefits however and may damage the urethral sphincter, meaning painful urination or inability to maintain bladder control.
It can also lead to dyspareunia or painful sex.
It also frequently complicates natural birth according to my wife (who is an Obs & Gynae doctor in South Africa and sees it in expats from East Africa), but I am unaware of any research to this effect.

The male form has advantages and disadvantages to the individual. I know of no advantage at all to female cicumcision. Based on the health problems it may cause alone, it should be banned.
 
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GoldenBoy89

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FGM, as opposed to male circumcision is totally useless and not at all comparable. The [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] is not analogous to the foreskin on a male. A better compassion would be removing the entire head of the penis, effectively making it useless.

And that is exactly why they do this to women... because of their ancient beliefs and superstitions regarding sex, they think it should not be something a woman enjoys.

Cultural practice or not, FGM is downright evil.
 
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Rick Otto

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FGM, as opposed to male circumcision is totally useless and not at all comparable. The [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] is not analogous to the foreskin on a male. A better compassion would be removing the entire head of the penis, effectively making it useless.

And that is exactly why they do this to women... because of their ancient beliefs and superstitions regarding sex, they think it should not be something a woman enjoys.

Cultural practice or not, FGM is downright evil.
Thank you. I was struck speechless.
(I know, I know, rare event)
 
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Forgive me for sounding ignorant, but aside from loss of pleasure what is the difference between this and make circumcision of the penis?

FGM, as opposed to male circumcision is totally useless and not at all comparable. The [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] is not analogous to the foreskin on a male. A better compassion would be removing the entire head of the penis, effectively making it useless.

And that is exactly why they do this to women... because of their ancient beliefs and superstitions regarding sex, they think it should not be something a woman enjoys.

Cultural practice or not, FGM is downright evil.

There is no difference between the type of female circumcision that Islaam encourages and male circumcision. The clitoral hood is what is analogous to the foreskin in the male and that (or part of the labia minora) is what is removed or reduced in the recommended circumcision, particularly if there is a lot of skin. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) explicitly said to not go into excess.

Some non-Muslim women in the US also opt for such elective procedures. Some undergo the surgery to increase sexual pleasure, some do it to decrease pain because of rubbing/chafing, and some do it for aesthetic purposes. When they do it, it's generally not referred to as FGM for some reason. Instead, it's called clitoral hood reduction (or hoodectomy) or labiaplasty.
 
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