Contradiction in James?

[Neogaia777]

In James, it is written, "If we say we have no sin, we are liars" and in another place it basically says "there is no sin in us, after being converted, even taking it so far to say if there's sin in you, Jesus will deny even knowing you, Paul say "how can we go on living in sin any longer"

But we all sin daily, even when we don't think we are, so we can't be sinless

Comments?

God Bless!

 

[Edmond Smith]

Did you mean?
1 John 1:8-10

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (1Jo 1:8 KJV)
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1Jo 1:9 KJV)
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1Jo 1:10 KJV)

a. If we say we have no sin: John has introduced the ideas of walking in the light and being cleansed from sin. But he did not for a moment believe that a Christian can become sinlessly perfect.

i. To think this of ourselves is to deceive ourselves, and to say this of ourselves is to lie- the truth is not in us.

ii. "Our deceitful heart reveals an almost Satanic shrewdness in self-deception … If you say you have no sin you have achieved a fearful success, you have put out your own eyes, and perverted your own reason!" (Spurgeon)

iii. There are few people today who think they are sinlessly perfect, yet not many really think of themselves as sinners. Many will say "I make mistakes" or "I'm not perfect" or "I'm only human," but usually they say such things to excuse or defend. This is different from knowing and admitting "I am a sinner."

iv. To say that we have no sin puts us in a dangerous place, because God's grace and mercy is extended to sinners. Not to "those who make mistakes" or "I'm only human" or "no one is perfect" people, but sinners. We need to realize the victory and forgiveness that comes from saying, "I am a sinner- even a great sinner- but I have a Savior who cleanses me from all sin."

 

[1watchman]

Yes, in Christ one is FORGIVEN, not made perfect. One who truly receives Jesus Christ can say they have a perfect standing before God (born anew), though at times they might veer into a state that is not perfect. That is why saints of God need to put the Lord Jesus first in their life and be devoted to Him all day ---so the flesh will not rise up. When saints of God get home to Heaven they will be free from the "old man" and all sin.

There truly are no contradictions in the good quality Bibles (KJV), and if one thinks so, they can be sure they have misapplied a verse.

 

[Winken]

I sin, but my standing is not sinner. My standing is forgiven, made the righteousness of God in Christ. O! for the space to shout hallelujah and to write endlessly my humble gratitude!

 

[Sketcher]

Can you post the actual passages you are asking about?

 

[Edmond Smith]

Yes, in Christ one is FORGIVEN, not made perfect. One who truly receives Jesus Christ can say they have a perfect standing before God (born anew), though at times they might veer into a state that is not perfect. That is why saints of God need to put the Lord Jesus first in their life and be devoted to Him all day ---so the flesh will not rise up. When saints of God get home to Heaven they will be free from the "old man" and all sin.

There truly are no contradictions in the good quality Bibles (KJV), and if one thinks so, they can be sure they have misapplied a verse.

Amen to that.

As one preacher put it.

The difference between a Born Again person sinning and a sinner sinning is that.
When, and they do, someone Born again sins, most of the time he is just sticking his/her finger in to test the waters, then realize they are doing so and run the other way, asking God for forgiveness.
Sinners, Dive in the waters, Head first, without a care in the world, not realizing the water is very shallow and can lead to Death.

 

[aiki]

In James, it is written, "If we say we have no sin, we are liars" and in another place it basically says "there is no sin in us, after being converted, even taking it so far to say if there's sin in you, Jesus will deny even knowing you, Paul say "how can we go on living in sin any longer"

But we all sin daily, even when we don't think we are, so we can't be sinless

Comments?

When a person is born-again they are not only brought to life spiritually (Eph. 2:1), but they are justified before God. That is, they are declared righteous before Him because they have, by placing their trust in Christ as their Saviour, the perfect righteousness of Christ imputed to them (Ro. 3:21-26; 4:11, 23-25). Every believer is "clothed in the righteousness of Christ"; this is their spiritual position as a child of God. But just as a person clothed in a bear skin coat doesn't become a bear, a person clothed in Christ's perfect righteousness does not become actually sinlessly perfect. Instead, Paul writes, "The flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary the one to the other, so that you cannot do the things that you would." (Ga. 5:17) The apostle John wrote,

"If we say have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (1John. 1:8)

And he wrote,

"...And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." (1John 2: 1, 2)

It seems very clear that John expected fellow believers to be guilty of sin. Strangely, he is the one who also wrote,

"Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins has not seen him, neither known him...He who commits sin is of the devil...whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1John 3:6-9)

Is John contradicting himself? No. More modern versions translate the above words of John this way:

"No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9 - ESV

This certainly accords better with what John wrote about being a liar if we say we have no sin. Positionally, every believer is declared righteous before God. But in the believer's condition, their daily living, there is the struggle between the flesh and the Spirit that Paul described and, sometimes, sin. But a believer distinguishes themself from a non-believer when they are not satisfied with a life of sin and refuse to live under its power, turning from it to the holy life God has commanded all of His children to pursue, and in the power of God's Spirit living a transformed life.

Selah.

 

[Neogaia777]

So, after were converted, do we still sin, or not?, James says we do not sin any longer, and in James, in another place he says "if we say we have no sin we are making him (God) a liar", so which is it?

 

[Winken]

After we are saved our standing is no longer sinner, it is saved, sanctified, soon to be glorified. That is our standing before God from now until we go home.

James, in another place, says "If we say we have no sin (to be forgiven of), we, (based upon scripture), make God a liar."

God cannot be a liar. Since He says we are forgiven at the moment of our conversion, because of the Cross, we can no longer be called sinners.

Do we still sin? Yes. Even though we stand forgiven in His Presence, we "fall off the wagon," so to speak. We drift into sinful behavior. The Holy Spirit reminds us, "Hey ... you aren't saved to sin." We turn to 1 John 1:9, recalling His graciousness at the Cross.

The difference is in the parts of speech in the references.

 

[1watchman]

Neogai, you need to go back and read the helpful posts given! True believers sin, due to our inborn sinful nature in the flesh ---we don't get rid of that, but have a new nature in Christ which gives us the power by the Holy Spirit to recover, confess the failure, and be restored to a Godly walk with God. God regards our failures as weakness at times, not dwelling in sin; so, our sin is not held against us when we confess it (see 1 Jn. 1:9-10 which is provided to real believers).

 

[Edmond Smith]

So, after were converted, do we still sin, or not?, James says we do not sin any longer, and in James, in another place he says "if we say we have no sin we are making him (God) a liar", so which is it?

Simple questions may help you?

Have you ever told a story after you were saved and changed it up a little to make it funny?
If so, that's a lie, because you didn't tell it exactly as it happened.

Have you ever broke the speed limit?
If so, then that's being dishonest , which dishonors you and your parents.

Have you gotten angry without cause?
Then your in danger of hell fire.

If your human, you sin, But because you been Born Again and Christ endues us with His righteousness, and that he is our advocate. We are covered by His blood, still. If you know you sin, then you should ask forgiveness. But there are times, because we are human, we tend to forget and keep on going. But I always try to pray like David did, he asked God to forgive him of the secret things, the hidden things, any unrighteousness that was within him.

This is why prayer and reading His word is so important.

 

[aiki]

Imagine you get a letter in the mail saying a distant relation has left you 10 million dollars. The letter tells you that the money has been deposited in an account under your name at your local bank and can be withdrawn as soon as the appropriate legal processes are accomplished. For all intents and purposes you're a millionaire! This is your new financial position. However, until the legal paperwork has all been completed and you actually go down to the bank and make a withdrawal, your new financial position makes no difference to your daily condition. Until you actually start spending your newfound millions, the fact that you're a millionaire has no impact upon how you're living. So, too, in the spiritual realm. God has made you a spiritual "millionaire" in Christ. But this doesn't necessarily mean you are actually living like it. Many believers don't have any idea what their spiritual position is in Christ; they don't know that they've been "blessed with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ Jesus." (Eph. 1:3) And it shows in how they live, in their condition. Although they have been clothed in the righteousness of Christ, they remain in bondage to the "old man," to the impulses of their carnal nature, and to sin. It isn't that they haven't actually been saved; they simply are ignorant and continue to have to resist their "fleshly lusts which war against the soul." (1Pe. 2:11) The Christian life for most people ends up being a process whereby God brings what is true of them in their position in Christ into their daily living, or condition. As that happens, sin becomes less and less the rule and more and more the exception.

Selah.

 

[GracetotheHumble]

1 John 1:10
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[Edmond Smith]

Imagine you get a letter in the mail saying a distant relation has left you 10 million dollars. The letter tells you that the money has been deposited in an account under your name at your local bank and can be withdrawn as soon as the appropriate legal processes are accomplished. For all intents and purposes you're a millionaire! This is your new financial position. However, until the legal paperwork has all been completed and you actually go down to the bank and make a withdrawal, your new financial position makes no difference to your daily condition. Until you actually start spending your newfound millions, the fact that you're a millionaire has no difference upon how you're living. So, too, in the spiritual realm. God has made you a spiritual "millionaire" in Christ. But this doesn't necessarily mean you are actually living like it. Many believers don't have any idea what their spiritual position is in Christ; they don't know that they've been "blessed with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ Jesus." (Eph. 1:3) And it shows in how they live, in their condition. Although they have been clothed in the righteousness of Christ, they remain in bondage to the "old man," to the impulses of their carnal nature, and to sin. It isn't that they haven't actually been saved; they simply are ignorant and continue to have to resist their "fleshly lusts which war against the soul." (1Pe. 2:11) The Christian life for most people ends up being a process whereby God brings what is true of them in their position in Christ into their daily living, or condition. As that happens, sin becomes less and less the rule and more and more the exception.

Selah.

Using the millionaire anecdote again. Once you know your a millionaire, you'll start wanting to live like the millionaire. Even though your paper work isn't done and you withdraw some money. Anyone with a bit of sense. Would get more information on what it entails to live the way of the millionaire, they will go to places where other millionaires hang out and get to know them.
They aught to go and learn the rules of the millionaires, because they live by different standards than the normal Joe lives.
So, it does make a difference and it does change you lifestyle and how your living.

And it's the same for being Born Again. Once you become Born Again, you will want to know more about Christ, you will want to have your mind renewed, You will read His word and apply it to your life. You will ask God to help you to obey Him and His word. You will go about trying to win the lost. Yes, you'll start off with milk of the word as a small child, but you will grow in the Lord and be able to chew the meat of God's Word and do that He has commanded us to do.
Once your clothed in the righteousness of God, you are no longer "in Bondage" to anything.

Rom 8:15
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Rom 8:21
Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Gal 4:3
Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

Paul even ask, why when you are known by God, why would you go back to those things that put you into bondage.

Gal 4:9
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Ignorance is no excuse. God has laid out His plan for Man, through His word and in man's Heart. The conscience of man bears witness to what we know that is right or wrong.

 

[hedrick]

Is John contradicting himself? No. More modern versions translate the above words of John this way:

"No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9 - ESV

This understanding is my no means generally accepted. I think the ESV may be going beyond what a translation should do, building in its own interpretation. My own understanding is that he means something like “to the extent that we abide in Christ we don’t sin.” In this world, no one does that perfectly. But still, being born of God leads to obedience, not sort-of obedience.

 

[com7fy8]

John wrote the first epistle of John and also the Book of Revelation.

During his vision of Revelation, John fell down to worship an angel > he sinned.

Revelation 19:9-10, also Revelation 22:8-9.

So, God's word says a person born of God cannot sin, and God's word says John sinned by worshiping an angel.

So, I consider it means that a child of God can not depart from God fully, sinning in such a way. But we are not perfect; so we do have sin problems. And James 5:16 says >

"Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much." (James 5:16)

So, we who are Jesus' people have mutual confession with mutual prayer to get "healed" of what in us makes us able to sin and suffer, and "healed" moreso together with God in His love, instead

 

[BiblicalAstronomy]

In James, it is written, "If we say we have no sin, we are liars" and in another place it basically says "there is no sin in us, after being converted, even taking it so far to say if there's sin in you, Jesus will deny even knowing you, Paul say "how can we go on living in sin any longer"

But we all sin daily, even when we don't think we are, so we can't be sinless

Comments?

God Bless!

We must recognize the difference between Sonship [John 3:16, Rom. 10:9-10] versus fellowship [Rom. 12:1-2]. When we are born again as Christian Believers we are connected to the Heavenly Father spiritually, thru Christ who died for our sins. This rebirth, based on God's forgiveness of our sins and the redeeming work of Christ-deals with our past sins. Going forward however, we still live in fleshly bodies and we need to "renew our minds" to a non carnal-Lifestyle in Christ. Spiritually we are perfect in Christ, yet we still must change our thought patterns based on the "old-man of the flesh" thru which our sinful nature has dominated us prior to the New Birth. As we "put-off" the old man and "put-on" the new man of our true identity in Christ, we can walk in the reality of Christ-in-us [Col. 1:27] following his example of how to Live For and With the Heavenly Father. As we do, we will grow spiritually in our relationship with God in Christ, emulating Jesus' example as the Son of God. Thus, there is no contradiction here...

God Bless...

 

[Another Lazarus]

Christianity is a long journey, its the end that matters not the starts when you are baptized.
so we learn to humble ourselves in God everyday and learn to pray for enemies.
cause if you pray for the people who is good to you what merit do you have ?

May Jesus bless you all HalleluYAH