Contentions issue about men who visited prostitutes and the women who accept them.

[VeritatisCupitor]

Hi,

Please give me your views of this contentions between me and a friend.

I am strongly against men who visit prostitutes in general and my friend too feels that prostitution in general is wrong.

Our argument is about the women who still can accept these men and still remain in a relationship with them.

I'm of the view that if a woman knows a man has been with a prostitute before, she should be even more wary of him and not enter into a relationship with him.

My friend is of the opinion that people do sin and if possible, to forgive if the man has an good reason for being with the prostitute in the first place, ie. he has needs and instead of one night stands, a prostitute is a better of the 2 evils.

To me I feel that such men are weak minded, have very low self esteem and lack self control. To even explore the possibility of a relationship with such men is folly.

My opinion is such men will always want a woman who can satisfy them as well as a prostitute can, have unrealistic expectations from a normal woman, will treat the woman with as much respect as he has for himself which isn't much in the first place and worse will treat the woman in a manner that money can buy me way out of any trouble, I'll pay you to stay with me.

My friend believes that people can change for the better so it is ok to be with such a person.

Please give me your views on this dilemma I'm having with my friend.

 

[Ken Rank]

Hi,

Please give me your views of this contentions between me and a friend.

I am strongly against men who visit prostitutes in general and my friend too feels that prostitution in general is wrong.

Our argument is about the women who still can accept these men and still remain in a relationship with them.

I'm of the view that if a woman knows a man has been with a prostitute before, she should be even more wary of him and not enter into a relationship with him.

My friend is of the opinion that people do sin and if possible, to forgive if the man has an good reason for being with the prostitute in the first place, ie. he has needs and instead of one night stands, a prostitute is a better of the 2 evils.

To me I feel that such men are weak minded, have very low self esteem and lack self control. To even explore the possibility of a relationship with such men is folly.

My opinion is such men will always want a woman who can satisfy them as well as a prostitute can, have unrealistic expectations from a normal woman, will treat the woman with as much respect as he has for himself which isn't much in the first place and worse will treat the woman in a manner that money can buy me way out of any trouble, I'll pay you to stay with me.

My friend believes that people can change for the better so it is ok to be with such a person.

Please give me your views on this dilemma I'm having with my friend.

Your friend is right, people can change and people do change. However, not all do the 180 we see others do and to think that every man who has had a prostitute will change is not realistic. I agree with you about the lack of self-control and being weak-minded, I would disagree on the idea of low self esteem. I think that doesn't matter and won't be a uniform factor when you study the men who would pay for sex. I think you'll find some with low self-esteem, and I think you'll find incredibly confident and successful men... who use prostitutes. It comes down to a lack of self-control (a fruit of the Spirit of God - see Galatians 5:23) and this inevitably doesn't just reveal a character flaw, it also reveals that this person likely cannot be trusted in a monogamous relationship. Throwing in the disease factor... if I were a woman and knew my husband-to-be had previously paid for sex, I would probably not marry unless this was one of those 180 cases.

There is more to this too, however.... the image problem. Did you see Mel Gibson's "The Passion?" If yes, be honest, when you think of Yeshua being crucified, does the image of Jim Caviezel (the actor who played Yeshua) come to mind? This is what happens... if we watch a movie before we read the book, the natural God-given ability to visualize what we are reading does not come to life and is, instead, replaced by the imagery already implanted by the movie. What does this have to do with your point? If I paid for sex and the prostitute did some unorthodox acts, things one might expect a prostitute but not a wife to do... then the wife will never fully satisfy because there will always be "more" embedded in the subconscious. The wife might satisfy for a time, but eventually those memories will surface and things will change. I have seen this happen before.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

it's about boundaries

you can forgive a kleptomaniac, but you wouldn't allow them to spend the night at your house.

 

[VeritatisCupitor]

Thank you both for the replies, I believe things are such for humans, thoughts become action, action into habits, habits into character.

Men who have been with a lot of women >40 women (most of them prostitutes) are by nature incorrigible. I would never be able to accept such a person as friend much less accept the fact the woman was even willing to try a relationship with him the first place.

The reason for our argument is my friend is in a relationship with a lady who had confessed to him that she once dated such a guy, a person who had visited many prostitutes before. To me I told him that dating such a woman isn't a good idea. The fact she was willing to tolerate such a person shows a clear lack of moral values and mental strength.

 

[TurtleAnne]

Men who hire prostitutes might do so for a wide variety of reasons in addition to the sexual one. It is true that some of the men who have hired prostitutes have deeply wicked hearts, are very narcissistic and malignant, and enjoy having power over a woman in order to degrade her, etc. However, as another example, some men who have hired a prostitute have very low self-esteem and are socially scared to death of women and/or falsely believe that no woman will ever want them because of their looks/finances/whatever. These types generally perceive that if they pay a woman for sex, then they don't have to feel as ashamed, guilty or embarrassed because the woman is "getting something" out of the "deal" and won't judge him, she will only care about the money.

Now obviously it is sin, one way or the other, but we are all sinners. So there are other layers to the quality of one's character to consider, is what I'm getting at.

Also consider the social and physiological differences between the sexes. If a woman has the sinful desire to commit fornication, she doesn't have to pay for it. She can wander into almost any bar or hookup website and have dozens to hundreds of men who are willing to sin with her in this manner. But for many men, when they have the desire to sin in this manner, it's not that easy and straightforward, so some will resort to paying money for it. But in the end, both men and women commit the sin of fornication by the many millions every year.

Now as far as character, again there are possible differences between men who hired a prostitute in the past. The first possibility is the man who knows the nature of sex slavery and also knows that most prostitutes are very emotionally damaged women who got into it at a young age, and this is part of what drives the especially wicked man I described initially towards the sin. But then again, there are also the men who are very ignorant and not malicious in nature, even though it is of course still sin, and yes they should have taken the time to know better - but again we are all sinners, just with different sins in many cases.

My overall point being that for me personally, like the scripture advises, I would pay attention to their "fruits" so to speak. To know the nature of a man and whether or not he has truly turned over a new leaf, i.e. turned his life over to Christ, or if he is of a truly wicked nature and only feigns a change of heart in order to get what he wants. If I were dating a man and found out he had slept with a prostitute in his past, it would certainly be cause for discussion, but not an automatic disqualification, in my eyes, but of course this is me, personally, to each their own. I would still be more focused on his quality of character and if his spiritual fruits, observed over a significant time before jumping into a marriage (naturally), revealed his merit or not.

I mean, in addition to Jesus' teachings being obviously good in a variety of ways that are easy to understand immediately, His teachings were also some social strategic genius. If we are judgemental, it will encourage people to lie and hide things. If you don't seem judgemental, but instead forgiving, and are also willing to confess your own past sins, it generally encourages people to be more honest with you. This doesn't you mean shouldn't abandon whatever standards you personally have for a marriage prospect (again to each their own), but it is still strategic, anyway, to not go around with a judgemental attitude, but rather a humble one. I have lost track over the years of how many predatory people I have 'drawn out' because I seem to be very timid, shy and naive to people who don't know me very well. It makes the wolves bolder and thus clumsier, and I spot them early on. Just something to consider.

 

[VeritatisCupitor]

I think you'll find incredibly confident and successful men... who use prostitutes. It comes down to a lack of self-control (a fruit of the Spirit of God - see Galatians 5:23) and this inevitably doesn't just reveal a character flaw, it also reveals that this person likely cannot be trusted in a monogamous relationship. Throwing in the disease factor... if I were a woman and knew my husband-to-be had previously paid for sex, I would probably not marry unless this was one of those 180 cases.

I believe that even successful men have issues that relate to insecurity, they feel the need to show off their wealth and power by buying beautiful women to have sex with them.

There is more to this too, however.... the image problem. Did you see Mel Gibson's "The Passion?" If yes, be honest, when you think of Yeshua being crucified, does the image of Jim Caviezel (the actor who played Yeshua) come to mind? This is what happens... if we watch a movie before we read the book, the natural God-given ability to visualize what we are reading does not come to life and is, instead, replaced by the imagery already implanted by the movie. What does this have to do with your point? If I paid for sex and the prostitute did some unorthodox acts, things one might expect a prostitute but not a wife to do... then the wife will never fully satisfy because there will always be "more" embedded in the subconscious. The wife might satisfy for a time, but eventually those memories will surface and things will change. I have seen this happen before.

Unfortunately, I did not watch the film but either way, the point of needing greater and greater sexual deviancy to satisfy them is what I was getting at in the first place too.

 

[VeritatisCupitor]

Men who hire prostitutes might do so for a wide variety of reasons in addition to the sexual one. It is true that some of the men who have hired prostitutes have deeply wicked hearts, are very narcissistic and malignant, and enjoy having power over a woman in order to degrade her, etc. However, as another example, some men who have hired a prostitute have very low self-esteem and are socially scared to death of women and/or falsely believe that no woman will ever want them because of their looks/finances/whatever. These types generally perceive that if they pay a woman for sex, then they don't have to feel as ashamed, guilty or embarrassed because the woman is "getting something" out of the "deal" and won't judge him, she will only care about the money.

To know the nature of a man and whether or not he has truly turned over a new leaf, i.e. turned his life over to Christ, or if he is of a truly wicked nature and only feigns a change of heart in order to get what he wants. If I were dating a man and found out he had slept with a prostitute in his past, it would certainly be cause for discussion, but not an automatic disqualification, in my eyes, but of course this is me, personally, to each their own. I would still be more focused on his quality of character and if his spiritual fruits, observed over a significant time before jumping into a marriage (naturally), revealed his merit or not.

TurtleAnne, I agree with a lot of what you have said however, I would like to go into more detail on some of the above points in relation to the argument I'm having with my friend.

First off, the man in question has had more than a few visits with prostitutes, he has freely admitted to have bed more than 40 women.
The lady who's dating my friend was willing or rather curious to even try a relationship with such a person, albeit for a short period of just 2 months.

I cannot accept or fathom how anyone could even continue to see such a person knowing the history he has had and even went so far as to act out his fantasy in sexually deviant acts with this lady in the form of violent role playing like rape scenes from movies, he has choked her etc etc. The irony was that she broke up with him not cos of such deviant behavior but rather he had a caustic personality. Talk about missing the forest for the tree.

I don't understand the thought processes that would allow a smart, professional woman to even consider such a man at all.

And now this woman is dating a good friend of mine. Another good friend's opinion is this woman is to be avoided, considering her past actions, in an hour of desperation, she can do anything.

This is my dilemma.

 

[quatona]

I´m not quite sure how this is any of your business?

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Well I'd say the past is the past. If the man has changed and doesn't do that anymore then a relationship is worth a shot. But if the man is still into it then obviously he should be avoided. Also if she wants to be with him, he needs to be tested to make sure he has no STDs.

Also if he says hes changed but cheats on her once you could call it a mistake. If he does it again, then its a choice. Then she should split up with him.

 

[VeritatisCupitor]

Well I'd say the past is the past. If the man has changed and doesn't do that anymore then a relationship is worth a shot. But if the man is still into it then obviously he should be avoided. Also if she wants to be with him, he needs to be tested to make sure he has no STDs.

Also if he says hes changed but cheats on her once you could call it a mistake. If he does it again, then its a choice. Then she should split up with him.

The thing is during the short time with this man, she said he was very open about preferring "more experienced women", had deviant sex including sodomy with her, and even suggested to her they try a threesome. The worse thing is she broke up with him only cos of his caustic personality rather than his sexual deviancy.

She has told my brother that she doesn't have a lot of experience and that she soon "opened her eyes" and realised that she would never date such a person ever again. In her own words, she only dated this person to "get away" from her ex husband and her "learning" came late after being with this person.

As I said earlier, I question her judgement, weak moral fiber and I question why my brother would even consider being in a relationship with her in the first place.

 

[Sketcher]

They say that you pay the prostitute to leave . . .

If a woman wants to inherit that kind of a man, along with his diseases, that's her call. I attribute that to poor judgment, but it's no skin off of my nose.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Men who hire prostitutes might do so for a wide variety of reasons in addition to the sexual one. It is true that some of the men who have hired prostitutes have deeply wicked hearts, are very narcissistic and malignant, and enjoy having power over a woman in order to degrade her, etc. However, as another example, some men who have hired a prostitute have very low self-esteem and are socially scared to death of women and/or falsely believe that no woman will ever want them because of their looks/finances/whatever. These types generally perceive that if they pay a woman for sex, then they don't have to feel as ashamed, guilty or embarrassed because the woman is "getting something" out of the "deal" and won't judge him, she will only care about the money.

Now obviously it is sin, one way or the other, but we are all sinners. So there are other layers to the quality of one's character to consider, is what I'm getting at.

Also consider the social and physiological differences between the sexes. If a woman has the sinful desire to commit fornication, she doesn't have to pay for it. She can wander into almost any bar or hookup website and have dozens to hundreds of men who are willing to sin with her in this manner. But for many men, when they have the desire to sin in this manner, it's not that easy and straightforward, so some will resort to paying money for it. But in the end, both men and women commit the sin of fornication by the many millions every year.

Now as far as character, again there are possible differences between men who hired a prostitute in the past. The first possibility is the man who knows the nature of sex slavery and also knows that most prostitutes are very emotionally damaged women who got into it at a young age, and this is part of what drives the especially wicked man I described initially towards the sin. But then again, there are also the men who are very ignorant and not malicious in nature, even though it is of course still sin, and yes they should have taken the time to know better - but again we are all sinners, just with different sins in many cases.

My overall point being that for me personally, like the scripture advises, I would pay attention to their "fruits" so to speak. To know the nature of a man and whether or not he has truly turned over a new leaf, i.e. turned his life over to Christ, or if he is of a truly wicked nature and only feigns a change of heart in order to get what he wants. If I were dating a man and found out he had slept with a prostitute in his past, it would certainly be cause for discussion, but not an automatic disqualification, in my eyes, but of course this is me, personally, to each their own. I would still be more focused on his quality of character and if his spiritual fruits, observed over a significant time before jumping into a marriage (naturally), revealed his merit or not.

I mean, in addition to Jesus' teachings being obviously good in a variety of ways that are easy to understand immediately, His teachings were also some social strategic genius. If we are judgemental, it will encourage people to lie and hide things. If you don't seem judgemental, but instead forgiving, and are also willing to confess your own past sins, it generally encourages people to be more honest with you. This doesn't you mean shouldn't abandon whatever standards you personally have for a marriage prospect (again to each their own), but it is still strategic, anyway, to not go around with a judgemental attitude, but rather a humble one. I have lost track over the years of how many predatory people I have 'drawn out' because I seem to be very timid, shy and naive to people who don't know me very well. It makes the wolves bolder and thus clumsier, and I spot them early on. Just something to consider.

TurtleAnne:

Some very well thought out ideas. You've obviously considered this difficult subject a lot.

It's interesting that Hebrews 11 numbers Rahab the harlot among the Old Testament faithful. Not that acting like a harlot isn't sin any more, but the fact that in the broader context of her life and her acts God saw faith there.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

You cant actually derive many concrete political rules from my concept of "raitonal attraction to being". But health and flourishing etc, I don't know that they're harmed by prostitution if protected against diseases. Its probably arguable in some cases its healthy for the parties involved.

 

[Ken-1122]

My opinion is such men will always want a woman who can satisfy them as well as a prostitute can, have unrealistic expectations from a normal woman,

Does this type of logic apply to women who read Romance Novels?

Ken

 

[Paradoxum]

What's the issue? if you treat people well, why does it matter?

 

[Armoured]

I'm of the view that if a woman knows a man has been with a prostitute before, she should be even more wary of him and not enter into a relationship with him.

Why?

 

[Ken-1122]

Hi,

Please give me your views of this contentions between me and a friend.

I am strongly against men who visit prostitutes in general and my friend too feels that prostitution in general is wrong.

Our argument is about the women who still can accept these men and still remain in a relationship with them.

I'm of the view that if a woman knows a man has been with a prostitute before, she should be even more wary of him and not enter into a relationship with him.

My friend is of the opinion that people do sin and if possible, to forgive if the man has an good reason for being with the prostitute in the first place, ie. he has needs and instead of one night stands, a prostitute is a better of the 2 evils.

To me I feel that such men are weak minded, have very low self esteem and lack self control. To even explore the possibility of a relationship with such men is folly.

My opinion is such men will always want a woman who can satisfy them as well as a prostitute can, have unrealistic expectations from a normal woman, will treat the woman with as much respect as he has for himself which isn't much in the first place and worse will treat the woman in a manner that money can buy me way out of any trouble, I'll pay you to stay with me.

My friend believes that people can change for the better so it is ok to be with such a person.

Please give me your views on this dilemma I'm having with my friend.

I think it was Jesus who said "let him who is without sin cast the first stone?

 

[FireDragon76]

After reading this thread... I'm surprised how judgemental some Christians can be.

Oh wait... no, I'm not!