Constantine ruined everything

Shempster

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Not sure why I see it this way. Practically nobody else does.
It seems to me that when Constantine demanded that Christianity be reduced to a written formula (AKA belief-based system) that he changed everything.

Outside of changing feast days and locations of historical events, he created a system where one was a member of the official religion if one believed certain facts and adopted certain practices.

I even suspect that this may have been the person Daniel spoke of. And think...that was a mere 300 and some years after Christ. The following years could very well be the "falling away" or "apostacy" spoken of by Paul.
I have been told for years that the falling away was the rejection of the modern American gospel.
 

Hillsage

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Interesting thoughts, Shemp...

I think there were good things and bad things about Constantine's actions.
Welcome back Anto9us, I thought you must have 'passed' over after your last posts since Feb. I assume/hope all is well for you now.
 
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Anto9us

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Hello Hillsage!
I dont know as i would say "all is well"
With me- but I am ABOVE GROUND...

Now CONNIE- as I see it- did in fact want a UNIFIED CHRISTIANITY throughout. The Empire, but was pretty much clueless theologically himself
Now siding with Arius, now with Athanasius
(Who was exiled 5 times but kept coming back and pulled it off at the end liike the
Cavaliers did)
 
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Soyeong

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Not sure why I see it this way. Practically nobody else does.
It seems to me that when Constantine demanded that Christianity be reduced to a written formula (AKA belief-based system) that he changed everything.

Outside of changing feast days and locations of historical events, he created a system where one was a member of the official religion if one believed certain facts and adopted certain practices.

I even suspect that this may have been the person Daniel spoke of. And think...that was a mere 300 and some years after Christ. The following years could very well be the "falling away" or "apostacy" spoken of by Paul.
I have been told for years that the falling away was the rejection of the modern American gospel.

While I think Christianity would have been better off without Constantine's influence, I don't think we are justified in pinning all of our problems on him.
 
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Der Alte

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Not sure why I see it this way. Practically nobody else does.
It seems to me that when Constantine demanded that Christianity be reduced to a written formula (AKA belief-based system) that he changed everything.
Outside of changing feast days and locations of historical events, he created a system where one was a member of the official religion if one believed certain facts and adopted certain practices.
I even suspect that this may have been the person Daniel spoke of. And think...that was a mere 300 and some years after Christ. The following years could very well be the "falling away" or "apostacy" spoken of by Paul.
I have been told for years that the falling away was the rejection of the modern American gospel.
Have you ever actually read any of the 20 canons of the Nicene council? Constantine only spoke at the opening ceremony. He didn't "demand" anything. Here is a synopsis of what the council discussed.
Link:Nicene Council Canons

  • The Arian question regarding the relationship between God the Father and the Son (not only in his incarnate form as Jesus, but also in his nature before the creation of the world); i.e., are the Father and Son one in divine purpose only or also one in being?
  • The date of celebration of Pascha/Easter
  • Various matters of church discipline, which resulted in twenty canons\Church structures: focused on the ordering of the episcopacy
    1. Dignity of the clergy: issues of ordination at all levels and of suitability of behavior and background for clergy
    2. Reconciliation of the lapsed: establishing norms for public repentance and penance
    3. Readmission to the Church of heretics and schismatics: including issues of when reordination and/or rebaptism were to be required
    4. Liturgical practice: including the place of deacons, and the practice of standing at prayer during liturgy[
 
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Not sure why I see it this way. Practically nobody else does.
It seems to me that when Constantine demanded that Christianity be reduced to a written formula (AKA belief-based system) that he changed everything.

Outside of changing feast days and locations of historical events, he created a system where one was a member of the official religion if one believed certain facts and adopted certain practices.

I even suspect that this may have been the person Daniel spoke of. And think...that was a mere 300 and some years after Christ. The following years could very well be the "falling away" or "apostacy" spoken of by Paul.
I have been told for years that the falling away was the rejection of the modern American gospel.


According to my personal perspective, (not saying that mine is the official catholic perspective), The Conversion of Constantine is the point at which The Beast which likes to use purple and scarlet is tied, The Emperors and the Roman soldiers stop from persecuting Christians and it began a period of almost 1000 years of Christianity Era in which The Successors of The Apostles, actually reigned this world. we have to remember that the Church is the Body of Christ, so the church reigning was in fact the Body of Christ reigning.

Rome had to be destroyed the Emperor, the army and the city. But not the Church of Rome which Peter points in his letter as Chosen as the others.

Now, After 1000 years from Chalcedony Council to Luther Reform, The Pope, the Successor of Peter, was indeed Christianizing more or less peacefully vast areas of Europe, and all the Barbaric invaders who destroyed the Western Roman Empire, in fact helped to the Expansion of Christianity through northern Barbaric Europe. Revelation 20:1-4

At the end of those 1000 years The Heresy, the Apostasy Arrived. Protestantism emerged denying all Sacraments and all Traditions passed from the Apostles to the Church. The Dragon indeed was released again, The Protestantism inspired in occultism which evolved into Masonry, began again its reign. Revelation 20:7-10

Now Religious indifferentism, Protestantism, Islam, And even Orthodoxy all of them are again opposed to the bishop of Rome. The Successor of Peter.


In his second letter to Tesalonians Chapter 2 Paul describes the Apostasy which has to be manifested and he also speaks of the Man of Doom. Paul calls the Church to persevere in the obedience to The Traditions which the Apostles have taught us. ¿What traditions keep all the enemies of the Church?

So, Perseverance is the Key word.

Have you all notice how Atheists, Orthodox, Protestants, Masons, Communists, Capitalists, Jehova Witnesses, Mormons, Islam, etc. all of them are at war with Catholicism?

Catholicism in Rome destroyed the pagan religion which was a copy of Greek religion inspired in Eastern Babylonic/Egyptian religions. But Masons and kabalistic Jews brought it back. The Star of Five peaks is also a symbol of pagan traditions, And USA and Muslims countries, Use it proudly in ther flags...

According to John, The antichrists are those who were Part of the Church and went away from it, those who deny Jesus as Son of God. Masons and Muslims deny the Son of God.


Ask your pastor if The Fathers of the USA were Masons, and if it is ok to be mason...
 
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I was not aware that
I
As a Protestant
Was
"At war
With Catholicism"

Mmm well don't make me post the pictures of the hundreds of Monasteries destroyed in Sajony, England, Norway, Netherlands, etc.

Even in USA the Alamo, was a catholic Mission. Destroyed to be used as a military post.

Spanish_Missions_in_Texas.JPG
 
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Shempster

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Have you ever actually read any of the 20 canons of the Nicene council? Constantine only spoke at the opening ceremony. He didn't "demand" anything.

Well I don't have a direct quote but he did make himself ruler over the church and government. As well, we know he was not thrilled with the numerous beliefs and how the Christians seemed so divided to him. He wanted a solid belief system that could be written on a piece of paper. He also did pay for all of the expenses for the bishops to travel and stay there. In modern politics, we call that lobbying. In the real world its called bribery.

I don't disagree with the Nicene creed. It did wonders for organized religion. It did, however put the kabash on the eastern idea of oneness with God.

I wonder if perhaps I should not have posted the question. Looking back I may have given the vibe that this was a witch hunt...and its not.
Constantine was a person just like you and me and deserves all the respect anyone would. I cannot or will nt judge his motives. Its just that the church made a hugely massive move away from the orthodox "oneness with God" and he was largely responsible for it (along with the schisms that happened later)
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Constantine was a person just like you and me and deserves all the respect anyone would.
He was nothing like me at all ever, nor like any Christian I've ever in my life heard about or read about or met.
(from everything I've ever heard or read about him, he was a lot like hitler.)
 
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Hillsage

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Hello Hillsage!
I dont know as i would say "all is well"
With me- but I am ABOVE GROUND...

At least you're still looking at the leaves and not the roots. :clap:

Now CONNIE- as I see it- did in fact want a UNIFIED CHRISTIANITY throughout. The Empire, but was pretty much clueless theologically himself
Now siding with Arius, now with Athanasius
(Who was exiled 5 times but kept coming back and pulled it off at the end like the
Cavaliers did)
Yeah ole 'CONNIE' may have been a world king but God is still the king of them all, whether they know what they're doing or not in a lot of situations.

PRO 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water:
he turneth it whithersoever he will.

As an X Catholic I no longer believe like I used to believe. Constantine wanted a 'political religious' church but we ended up with a 'religious political' one instead.... but just as bad IMO. And the present Pope is still asking forgiveness for their atrocities. I think his heart is good in doing so though. IOW God isn't forcing his heart to turneth, he seems to be a good man IMO.
 
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Anto9us

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CLUELESS CONNIE
ARROGANT ARIUS
AND
ALL-STAR ATHANASIUS

Are all indeed " just like you and me"
In the sense that they/we
Are
NOT JESUS.

We/they "have a Human nature ONLY"

Whereas Jesus has a DUAL NATURE

IMO

He was pre-existent as LOGOS

He was WORD before He was SON

He prayed "glorify me, Father, with the glory we had before the world was"

"
Just in case you hadn't heard
In the beginning was the Word
And the Word was with God
And the Word was God
"
- Phil Keaggy paraphrasing John of Zebedee
 
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Anto9us

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A vast majority of Protestants, allegedly all Catholics and Orthodox

Are NICENE CHRISTIANS

We are not at war

Yes, Hillsage, I look at leaves, not dead roots
This year i felt close to the point
Where I would have no longer seen through the glass darkly
But would have known firsthand the real answers

But i remain here, and glad of it
 
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Job8

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I was not aware that
I As a Protestant Was "At war With Catholicism"
Then you must be naive. Protestant -- by definition -- means against Catholicism. Back to Constantine. There are all kinds of legends about this legendary figure, but the fact remains that he tried to integrate Christianity with Paganism.
 
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Anto9us

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Alonso
I confess that in Junior High football
When we played the school from the hispanic part of town
We charged down the field at the kickoff screaming

REMEMBER THE ALAMO!!

(Coach got onto us about it pretty bad)

But i do not remember burning any Popes in this lifetime...

Nor being burned at the stake myself...
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Then you must be naive. Protestant -- by definition -- means against Catholicism.
Admittedly, though not good except it is fulfilling prophesy and Jesus return is soon,
a lot of former 'protestants' are now 'ecumenical' and have
left what they(?as a group or individuals?) may have once had as Scriptural Faith and Integrity in Jesus.
Are they still technically protestant ?
 
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Anto9us

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So Job I am naive

I swear in the Air Force, things were simpler
There was one building- THE CHAPEL

Caths usually had the earlier service
Then we Protties went in next
And the more ecumenical of us stayed to collect the CHICK TRACKS that our more
Exuberant brothers left in the pews to "convert Catholics"

Because another cathie service would be following

We turned them into Father Cordoza, who had drawerfuls of them in his office

He showed them to me once, very grave...

I'll say it again- read my lips-
I am not at war with Catholicism

Do you read me?
Or is there some part of this you do not understand?

And my son is now Greek Orthodox

We are discussing a book
THE MOUNTAIN OF SILENCE

Eastern mysticism about the Oneness of God
 
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