James Dobson of Focus on the Family: Masturbation is OK

[JonF]

If its such a necessary part of development and its healthy and all that, then i can assume that Christ masturbated, correct?

This is a very good point. I’d like to rephrase it a bit in response to the people who responded with. “well he just didn’t”
If Christ masturbated, that would be ok right?
Also, how do you touch with out lust?

 

[ReformedAnglican]

Wow that was a long read.

 

[woobadooba]

Jesus = Divine
Us = Not divine

Comparing apples to oranges.

Yes, but we aren't talking about divinity Vs. humanity, but about Christ's character, as compared to ours.

The scriptures inform us that we ought to walk even as He walked. This means our character should reflect His.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Part of what God gave to Moses was that when a man had an emission, he was unclean until evening. Even if it was while he was sleeping. Does that mean that someone could touch up to but not including [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]? I don't think so. Emission is emission.

Moses wrote that he was unclean, not that he was sinful.

If you equate the two (unlike the Bible), then you'd need to confess that a woman's period is sinful, that having a baby is sinful... Um, under the old Mosaic Covenant, LOTS of things made one "unclean." The Bible never says it made them sinful.


MY $0.01


- Josiah



.

 

[nephilimiyr]

This is what happens when modern evangelicalism acquiesces to pagan psychology. Is there any manner of sin we will not commit if we can just find some way to justify it to ourselves? I agree with jckstraw. Let Christ control it.

I think the problem with some is that they believe that even if you're a child of God and you may stumble that then you are going to hell. By proclaiming masturbation not a sin allows them to get away with this because they know just about everybody does it or has done it. Everybody, even the Spirit filled Christian, the one walking in the light is going to stumble and fall from time to time. Masturbation is a perfect example of the flesh that wars against our spirit and instead of scarying christians that they are going to go to hell each and everytime they sin unless they hurry up and confess it and repent they need to accept the fact that until we move from corruptible bodies to incorruptible bodies we are going to sin. Our God is a good God and He does not and will not kick us when we're down even though I think alot of christians feel it's their job to do so.

The child of God, the born again believer in Christ has victory in his sights to win the ultimate battle. Masturbation is a sin battle we all need to wage war with and it needs to be confessed to God but the real disheartening thing about it is when you have some christians who then deem it necessary to call those who do fail "failures" and that they are going to go to hell.

The best thing a parent can do for their child, especially in this situation, is to let them know that they can make a mistake and not be a mistake. And like jckstraw72 said we need to let them know that they need to let Christ control it, they need to learn, we all need to learn how to let go and give it to God because He's the only way and the only reason why we win our battles with sin in the first place.
Or is there someone here who would like to boast for awhile???

 

[Bill777]

Not really. It's actually pretty specific. But you probably won't like it.
Part of what God gave to Moses was that when a man had an emission, he was unclean until evening. Even if it was while he was sleeping. Does that mean that someone could touch up to but not including [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]? I don't think so. Emission is emission.

That was the mosaic law. Paul also advices that he wishes everybody was celibate like him with no spouse. So maybe ideally we should have no emissions, but that's not God's gift to every human being but to a select few. To all others, sex within marriage is holy (even if there's an emission), masturbation and noturnal emissions are OK as well. Like somebody else pointed out, after an emission you are unclean, but it doesn't mean you have sinned.

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

I think the problem with some is that they believe that even if you're a child of God and you may stumble that then you are going to hell. By proclaiming masturbation not a sin allows them to get away with this because they know just about everybody does it or has done it. Everybody, even the Spirit filled Christian, the one walking in the light is going to stumble and fall from time to time. Masturbation is a perfect example of the flesh that wars against our spirit and instead of scarying christians that they are going to go to hell each and everytime they sin unless they hurry up and confess it and repent they need to accept the fact that until we move from corruptible bodies to incorruptible bodies we are going to sin. Our God is a good God and He does not and will not kick us when we're down even though I think alot of christians feel it's their job to do so.

The child of God, the born again believer in Christ has victory in his sights to win the ultimate battle. Masturbation is a sin battle we all need to wage war with and it needs to be confessed to God but the real disheartening thing about it is when you have some christians who then deem it necessary to call those who do fail "failures" and that they are going to go to hell.

The best thing a parent can do for their child, especially in this situation, is to let them know that they can make a mistake and not be a mistake. And like jckstraw72 said we need to let them know that they need to let Christ control it, they need to learn, we all need to learn how to let go and give it to God because He's the only way and the only reason why we win our battles with sin in the first place.
Or is there someone here who would like to boast for awhile???

This is an excellent post. We should not fall into a works-righteousness mindset, wherein we must confess every time we sin or it's downstairs for us. And I think that, rather than ignoring the topic with our children, we should emphasize godly sexuality. This post is the sort of honest, Christ-centered treatment of the topic that kids should be hearing from their parents, who should not be afraid of embarrassing their kids. Kids will be embarrassed. That's puberty.

 

[nephilimiyr]

This is an excellent post. We should not fall into a works-righteousness mindset, wherein we must confess every time we sin or it's downstairs for us. And I think that, rather than ignoring the topic with our children, we should emphasize godly sexuality. This post is the sort of honest, Christ-centered treatment of the topic that kids should be hearing from their parents, who should not be afraid of embarrassing their kids. Kids will be embarrassed. That's puberty.

I believe in confessing our sins whenever we sin, I just don't believe that if the christian is truely walking in the Spirit that a failure to do so will land them in hell if they should die before the sin is confessed. I think you made an excellent post yourself

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

Oh I believe in confessing our sins whenever we sin, I just don't believe that if the christian is truely walking in the Spirit that a failure to do so will land them in hell if they should die before the sin is confessed.

That is what I meant.

 

[jubilationtcornpone]

But Jesus was also fully man, and went through the same experiences and temptations that we did.

Where does the Bible say that he went through the same experiences that we did?

He was certainly tempted (Heb 4:15), but I don't see any place where the Bible declares that he went through all the same experiences as sinful man. In fact, if Jesus was without sin, then he surely did not go through our sinful experiences.

 

[JonF]

What about if he did touch (not saying he did, but IF he did), would you be ok with that?

 

[HeyHomie]

Glad to see that he and I are on the same page about masturbation.

 

[Bill777]

What about if he did touch (not saying he did, but IF he did), would you be ok with that?

No, I would not be OK with that.

You see Paul told the Corinthians that they should marry for fear of fornication, that a woman's body belongs to her husband and a man's body to the wife and to not deprive each other for fear that Satan would tempt them otherwise. But Paul said this as a CONCESSION and not a commandment, because the Corinthians were weak in the flesh and fornication was rampant. Paul wished everybody was strong like him, not in need of marriage, but he realized that not all christians are like that. Same thing can be said of masturbation as an act of the flesh, the flesh is weak and if God overlooks masturbation it's only because of that, it's a CONCESSION due to our weakness.

Christ was not weak in the flesh. He never saw fornication as a threat and had no need of marriage and he never masturbated, that's the bottom line. But God did not promise strength in the flesh to everybody so that they would be able to stay single forever and never touch. It is unbiblical to believe that God promised this perfect gift of celibacy to all that would trust in Jesus.

 

[lmnop9876]

i don't think masturbation is wrong, unless it's 1. an obsession, 2. accompanied by lust, or 3. a substitute for a normal marital relationship.

 

[grateful heart]

I agree with Dr Dobson, usually shame and guilt come from false teaching , not the holy spirit

 

[JonF]

Thanks bill for the good answer.

i don't think masturbation is wrong, unless it's 1. an obsession, 2. accompanied by lust, or 3. a substitute for a normal marital relationship.

I don’t see how you can touch without lusting…

 

[Joykins]

I don’t see how you can touch without lusting…

A deficiency of imagination, perhaps?

 

[Bill777]

I don’t see how you can touch without lusting…

Well, lusting after a woman means wanting that woman to be yours. You can certainly touch, even have a fantasy about somebody, without seriously lusting. For all I care it could be somebody you saw in the morning in the bus that you will never see again, and you get home at night and remember that image. You may still be aroused but completely unable to lust after somebody that you don't even know.

 

[JonF]

A deficiency of imagination, perhaps?

you are apparently better at controlling your imagination than i am

Well, lusting after a woman means wanting that woman to be yours. You can certainly touch, even have a fantasy about somebody, without seriously lusting.

i consider sexual fantasies about someone other than your spouse lust

This, and my previous issue which was resolved are the two reasons i always thought masturbation is a sin

 

[Bill777]

you are apparently better at controlling your imagination than i am
i consider sexual fantasies about someone other than your spouse lust

This, and my previous issue which was resolved are the two reasons i always thought masturbation is a sin

OK, by fantasy I didn't mean imagining a sexual act with that woman. I mean finding her body sexy. That is in my opinion not lust, it may even come hours after you saw a woman. And I'm talking here about something that comes by chance. Who knows it could be somebody you see on the street, on a TV show, a regular magazine, whatever. I'm not talking about inappropriate contentography or a fully nude women that you won't see on the street or a regular magazine or a TV show.

You are confusing lust with sexual arousal. Sexual arousal is not necessarily sin. Lusting or wanting someone or something is sin. You can lust after a car for all I know and that is sin, same thing lusting after a woman, and if you or her are married, then looking at a woman with a lustful eye is adultery of the heart.