Confederate States of America: What Would've Happened if the South Won the Civil War.

[Gxg (G²)]

Really great material Gxg (G2)!

So glad to know the resources have both come in handy and have been of interest

 

[nightflight]

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Things you don't even stop to think about when people say "States Rights!!!!" (especially concerning the Confederacy) and don't even know all that it took to make the states what they are today since there was always a lot of cut-throat politics behind boundary lines and sentiments on how others are to be seen when a border was made. Love the documentary series from History Channel ( )

 

[Radrook]

A temporary perpetuation of slavery in the Confederate States would have ensued. However, the rest of the world had already tagged slavery as corrupt and the Confederacy would have gradually been politically pressured into abolishing it soon after their military victory.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

A temporary perpetuation of slavery in the Confederate States would have ensued. However, the rest of the world had already tagged slavery as corrupt and the Confederacy would have gradually been politically pressured into abolishing it soon after their military victory.

It'd be interesting to see how things developed after that point if the Confederacy won and yet fell under pressure because the world had long adapted.

 

[Norbert L]

and many have long made it out as if the slavery issue was not a key issue behind the secession of the Southern States

It actually was not the issue, though they did not know this. Just ask any white man at that time in America from the southern states if it was Constitutionally correct to have white slaves. The way I see it, the slavery issue of the south was a type of "twilight zone" for the first awakening of American civilization towards racism. At that time their knowledge couldn't see it under our modern understanding of racism. That historical population was just beginning to understand (to scratch the surface of) one of the many arms racist beliefs. Hindsight being 20/20 in one hand the Nazi necessity of genocide of the Jews, on the other hand enslaving blacks.

The other oddity of the American civil war was at that time Christian Britain abolished slavery far more peaceably while the Muslim Ottoman Turks still practiced it. All of it is somewhat like trying to point to who has more blood stains on their hands. Romans 3:10-18

 

[Gxg (G²)]

It actually was not the issue, though they did not know this. Just ask any white man at that time in America from the southern states if it was Constitutionally correct to have white slaves. The way I see it, the slavery issue of the south was a type of "twilight zone" for the first awakening of American civilization towards racism. At that time their knowledge couldn't see it under our modern understanding of racism. That historical population was just beginning to understand (to scratch the surface of) one of the many arms racist beliefs. Hindsight being 20/20 in one hand the Nazi necessity of genocide of the Jews, on the other hand enslaving blacks.

The other oddity of the American civil war was at that time Christian Britain abolished slavery far more peaceably while the Muslim Ottoman Turks still practiced it. All of it is somewhat like trying to point to who has more blood stains on their hands. Romans 3:10-18

Understood...

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Something else to consider that was fascinating with the Civil War era, as it concerns Jews who were involved...for many do not know on President Lincoln’s reversal of an order by General Ulysses S. Grant which expelled Jews “as a class” from the massive Tennessee Territory after accusations of disloyalty.

• How Many Jewish Civil War Soldiers Were There
• Outfitting the Civil War: Jewish Contributions to

As another noted best:

We can, however, come up with some general figures. In 2008, a PBS documentary called The Jewish Americans cited 150,000 Jews living in the United States in 1860. Of these, roughly 3,000 fought for the Confederacy and 7,000 fought for the Union. That's approximately (based on the laws of higher mathematics) 10,000 Jewish soldiers taking up arms for their respective causes.

Jews held high ranks in the armies too. Their were 9 Jewish generals and 21 Jewish colonels in the war. Judah P. Benjamin, who from what I understand was a non-observant Jew, served as the Confederate Secretary of State and Secretary of War.

How about that.

But it's not all about names and numbers. In the news, U. S. Grant made headlines when he issued his infamous General Order no. 11 on December 17, 1862. This order essentially expelled all Jews from his military district (Tennessee, Mississippi, Kentucky) in an effort to curtail black market cotton trading, which Grant thought was being run "mostly by Jews and other unprincipled traders." Not Sam Grant's finest hour, to be sure. At least Abraham Lincoln had the good sense to immediately reprimand Grant (who then rescinded the order).

Many of the Jewish soldiers fighting in the Union armies were recent immigrants - from places like Germany and elsewhere in Central Europe. But not all were foreign born - especially in the Confederacy. A great number of these soldiers were native to the states (and country...I suppose) for which they fought. Some of the oldest synagogues in the prewar nation, for example, were in Virginia and South Carolina. There is a Jewish Confederate cemetery called Shockoe Hill in Richmond, Virginia, and Hollywood Cemetery (also in Richmond) has a Jewish section.

So there you have it. There are a couple of books worth checking out for further information. I recommend Jews and the Civil War: A Reader edited by Adam Mendelsohn and Jonathan Sarna as well as American Jewry and the Civil War by Betram W. Korn​

• Jews in the American Civil War | Civil War Soldier Stories - YouTube
• Jews in the Civil War | My Jewish Learning
  
  
• Jewish Experience Civil War, May 27 2010 | C-SPAN.org
• YUTorah Online - Jews and the Civil War (Rabbi Tzvi Sinensky)

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Really great material Gxg (G2)!

Something I recently came across that has literally fascinated me....

With all of the recent discussions (after the horror of what happened in Virginia last month with that White Supremacy rally and the aftermath of people demanding the removal of Confederate monuments) that we have a lot of things that we need to now bring to the forefront. I am Remembering today, if the focus is on memory in our nation, how so many stories are unknown to show how much of U.S. history was GLOBAL history. Glad for learning recently of the Asian Americans present in the Civil War, like my dude Corporal Joseph Pierce.

As another said best, "he was mustered into the Fourteenth Regiment, Company F of the Connecticut Volunteer Infantry that became part of the Second Brigade of the Third Division, Second Army Corps of the Army of the Potomac. From 1862 to 1865, Pierce survived some of the bloodiest battles of the war and is believed to have achieved the highest rank of any Chinese American to serve in the Union Army, having reached the rank of Corporal."

Sadly, Despite his many achievements, he was denied US citizenship due to the anti-immigrant Chinese Exclusion Act that happened not too long after the Civil War era - and many Asian Americans in their military history had the same experience, until others finally honored their stories in recent decades. There are many events that bring cultures together around the world and then are later forgotten. With the Chinese in America, the Trans-Continental Railroad did much with bringing immigrants to the Americans to build - but there are also other world events that made a difference, considering how Russia and China were allies during the Civil War era AND Russia actually supported the Union (as the Tsar and Lincoln were friends).

For more info, one can go here:

• -"The Chinese soldiers who fought in the American civil war...the involvement of a handful of Chinese combatants - as well as their shameful treatment afterwards" (The Chinese soldiers who fought in the American civil war )

​

For others wishing to go deeper and gain more information on the little-known memory of the Asian American veterans in the Civil War:

-"Men Without a Country - Chinese in the American Civil War" (

)

-"Woo Hong Neok - A Chinese American soldier in the Civil War" ( Woo Hong Neok | Pennsylvania Civil War 150 )

-"THE CIVIL WAR PARLORarchive/rss/ask" ( CHINESE SOLDIER FOUGHT IN THE AMERICAN CIVIL WAR ... - The Civil War Parlor )

-"Indy-Chinese New Year: Early Chinese-Americans & The Holiday, Hooiser Style" ( https://carlanthonyonline.com/2013/...-chinese-americans-the-holiday-hooiser-style/ )

-"10 Astounding Fish-Out-Of-Water Stories From History" ( http://listverse.com/2015/03/29/10-astounding-fish-out-of-water-stories-from-history/ )

-"Did you know Chinese & Filipino Soldiers Fought in U.S. Civil War?" ( Did you know Chinese & Filipino Soldiers Fought in U.S. Civil War? )

-"Asian Americans in U.S. History: Civil War" (Asian Americans in U.S. History: Civil War )

-"Veterans to Remember: Chinese Americans in the Civil War : We're " ( Veterans to Remember: Chinese Americans in the Civil War )

-"CHINESE IN THE U.S. CIVIL WAR - Ruthanne Lum McCunn' ( http://mccunn.com/Civil-War.html )

-"Historian Recounts Role of Chinese Americans Who Fought in US" ( https://www.voanews.com/a/surprise-asians-fought-in-the-us-civil-war-120282254/163158.html )

-"The secret history of Chinese-American Civil War soldiers - this ain't livin'" ( http://meloukhia.net/2017/02/the_secret_history_of_chinese-american_civil_war_soldiers/)

Also, for anyone wanting to know the history of Filipinos in the American Civil War, one can go here ( http://adenu1980.blogspot.gr/2011/05/filipinos-in-american-civil-war.html ).

There were also Confederate soldiers who fought in the Civil War as well, to be clear (http://www.williamsonherald.com/news/article_b84082cf-716d-5109-99a5-b9e79317498b.html )/ (https://www.facebook.com/Confederat...s/pcb.331880717244734/331880703911402/?type=3 )

-"Chinese Soldiers Fought in U.S. Civil War" ( http://billhowe.org/MCE/chinese-soldiers-fought-in-u-s-civil-war/ )

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Also, I was reminded recently on some of the ways events in world history can have a global impact on multiple levels - and yet people who you would never have expected can be caught in the middle of it and forgotten. I would encourage all to consider supporting this amazing historical project that documents the Hawaii Sons of the Civil War.

Pacific Islander history is fascinating and I am thankful the Smithsonian Museum of the American Indian had an exhibit on the Indigenous contributions to U.S. history - because so much of war ends up leaving people behind who made it happen. And no one ever wins in war.

How differently would the Confederacy have looked if Hawaiians had not been involved!!!!

Something I recently came across that has literally fascinated me....

With all of the recent discussions (after the horror of what happened in Virginia last month with that White Supremacy rally and the aftermath of people demanding the removal of Confederate monuments) that we have a lot of things that we need to now bring to the forefront. I am Remembering today, if the focus is on memory in our nation, how so many stories are unknown to show how much of U.S. history was GLOBAL history. Glad for learning recently of the Asian Americans present in the Civil War, like my dude Corporal Joseph Pierce.

As another said best, "he was mustered into the Fourteenth Regiment, Company F of the Connecticut Volunteer Infantry that became part of the Second Brigade of the Third Division, Second Army Corps of the Army of the Potomac. From 1862 to 1865, Pierce survived some of the bloodiest battles of the war and is believed to have achieved the highest rank of any Chinese American to serve in the Union Army, having reached the rank of Corporal."

Sadly, Despite his many achievements, he was denied US citizenship due to the anti-immigrant Chinese Exclusion Act that happened not too long after the Civil War era - and many Asian Americans in their military history had the same experience, until others finally honored their stories in recent decades. There are many events that bring cultures together around the world and then are later forgotten. With the Chinese in America, the Trans-Continental Railroad did much with bringing immigrants to the Americans to build - but there are also other world events that made a difference, considering how Russia and China were allies during the Civil War era AND Russia actually supported the Union (as the Tsar and Lincoln were friends).

For more info, one can go here:

• -"The Chinese soldiers who fought in the American civil war...the involvement of a handful of Chinese combatants - as well as their shameful treatment afterwards" (The Chinese soldiers who fought in the American civil war )

​

 

[Babe Ruth]

Anyone mention the Indian Nations contained within the borders of the Confederate States (?)
Confederate government (Albert Pike) negotiated & ratified several treaties w/Southern tribes. I plead ignorance on all the details of Pike's treaties.. but I assume an independent CSA could've have ceded land back to Indian allies, following assistance with a theoretical victory.
I mention this because I think the CSA could've fractured in to both some small Indian nations, and separate, independent states. I don't believe it would've stayed in it's wartime (emergency) form. It's also possible the upper South could've reunited with the Union (I mean, without Lincoln's conscription, Virginia may have never seceded).. and Cuba could've joined a Deep Southern Confederacy.. maybe?
Interesting speculation either way..

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Anyone mention the Indian Nations contained within the borders of the Confederate States (?)
Confederate government (Albert Pike) negotiated & ratified several treaties w/Southern tribes. I plead ignorance on all the details of Pike's treaties.. but I assume an independent CSA could've have ceded land back to Indian allies, following assistance with a theoretical victory.
I mention this because I think the CSA could've fractured in to both some small Indian nations, and separate, independent states. I don't believe it would've stayed in it's wartime (emergency) form. It's also possible the upper South could've reunited with the Union (I mean, without Lincoln's conscription, Virginia may have never seceded).. and Cuba could've joined a Deep Southern Confederacy.. maybe?
Interesting speculation either way..

Good points

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Anyone mention the Indian Nations contained within the borders of the Confederate States (?)
Confederate government (Albert Pike) negotiated & ratified several treaties w/Southern tribes. I plead ignorance on all the details of Pike's treaties.. but I assume an independent CSA could've have ceded land back to Indian allies, following assistance with a theoretical victory.
I mention this because I think the CSA could've fractured in to both some small Indian nations, and separate, independent states. I don't believe it would've stayed in it's wartime (emergency) form. It's also possible the upper South could've reunited with the Union (I mean, without Lincoln's conscription, Virginia may have never seceded).. and Cuba could've joined a Deep Southern Confederacy.. maybe?
Interesting speculation either way..

As an aside, at a rally protesting Neo-Nazis in Newnan (GA), I actually met someone with a Confederate States badge and we had a fascinating conversation on what you noted. Glad we met with our new friend Alan and be reminded on the ways that not everyone in the South who was a Confederate was against Black folks, especially seeing the ways that things weren't all good up North.

And as my friend was a Native American as well, we had good discussion together. We talked on our mutual backgrounds and we talked on Natives in the Confederacy - with me remembering things other Native American Christians have said.

As a friend said best on the recent controversy over Confederate Statues:

FIRST NATIONS FOR TAKING DOWN STATUES OF UNION GENERALS?

Where are the protests for taking down the statues of General Custer? Where are the protests for taking down statues of every Union General that took part in the genocide of First Nations people?

1) William Tecumseh Sherman.
2) Oliver Otis Howard
3) Philip H. Sheridan.
4) George Crook.
5) Nelson A. Mile
6) Andrew Jackson

Confederate Brigadier General Stand Watie was a Cherokee Indian was the last Confederate general to surrender. Do they want to take his statue down as well? He commanded the Confederate Indian cavalry of the Army of the Trans-Mississippi, made up mostly of Cherokee, Muskogee and Seminole warriors who fought against the Union army that was enforcing the forced removal of their people.

What are your thoughts? I'm just pointing out the double standard and hypocrisy...After all, weren't Democrats the ones who put many of these statues up?
​

Thankful someone noted this for what it was since the binary understanding of the Confederacy as bad and the Union as good isn't accurate, especially considering what the Lincoln Memorial symbolizes to Native Americans in his treatment of them - the largest mass execution in U.S. history was a staged event where random Native Americans (without just trial) were rounded up and hung, known as the Dakota 38:

Mark Charles covered this best when speaking on why Native Americans see Lincoln radically different than others,( Wirelesshogan: Reflections from the Hogan: The Truth about Abraham Lincoln, #NativeLivesMatter, #BlackLivesMatter) - and if you want to take things further, many Native Americans fought for the Union (particularly the Cherokees, who had been badly treated by the Southerners) while some tribes fought for the Confederacy because they were slave holders (as seen with the Creek and Choctaw, in particular, who were large slave owners in the south AND wanting to preserve the economic prosperity slave ownership brought them).

• -"American Indians and the Civil War" ( American Indians and the Civil War | Native American Netroots )
• -"Native Americans and the Civil War" ( Native Americans and the Civil War | Civil War Connections )

​

 

[usexpat97]

In order for the South to have won the American Civil War, they would have had to give up on slavery, and fight solely for constitutional states' rights. In fact, the South PROBABLY would have won were that the case. Maryland would have defected prior to Antietam, Washington DC would have fallen. The British would have thrown their support solidly behind the South. The Battle Hymn would not have been the abolitionists' battle cry, nor would Dixie and the Confederate battle flag have been symbols of oppression. Maybe they wouldn't have achieved total capitulation by the North; but the North would have recognized their secession, as the CSA had been seeking.

So if the CSA had won the Civil War, for that reason, we actually would have been better off. At least then you could cross Trump's border wall into Virginia.

 

[Babe Ruth]

In order for the South to have won the American Civil War.. Maryland would have defected prior to Antietam, Washington DC would have fallen.. nor would Dixie and the Confederate battle flag have been symbols of oppression..

97, Thanks for sharing your thoughts..
Maryland didn't secede largely bcuz Lincoln pre-emptively arrested their (potential) secessionist leadership. But there was strong secession sentiment in Maryland before & throughout the war (especially eastern Maryland and Baltimore). Remember Lincoln had to basically be smuggled thru Maryland en route to DC, for fear of secessionist assassination..
Personally, I'm not sure a seceded Maryland makes much difference in the end tho.. and personally I don't think the South could separate state control over slavery, from their principled defense of other States' rights. They were all connected in the big picture of State right supremacy (over Federal supremacy).

As far as a Confederate flag being solely characterized as symbol of oppression.. that's a subjective opinion. Peace.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

In order for the South to have won the American Civil War, they would have had to give up on slavery, and fight solely for constitutional states' rights. In fact, the South PROBABLY would have won were that the case. Maryland would have defected prior to Antietam, Washington DC would have fallen. The British would have thrown their support solidly behind the South. The Battle Hymn would not have been the abolitionists' battle cry, nor would Dixie and the Confederate battle flag have been symbols of oppression. Maybe they wouldn't have achieved total capitulation by the North; but the North would have recognized their secession, as the CSA had been seeking.

So if the CSA had won the Civil War, for that reason, we actually would have been better off. At least then you could cross Trump's border wall into Virginia.

Interesting..

With Maryland, the history it had with the Confederacy is rather fascinating:

• Understanding the Maryland Flag's Ties to the Confederate Cause
  

 

[Babe Ruth]

Interesting..

With Maryland, the history it had with the Confederacy is rather fascinating..

Agreed. I've done a lot of reading on Border States over the years (especially Maryland & Delaware).. Maryland, true Border State.. Southern society, that didn't secede, but was also largely, initially opposed to fighting the seceding deep South (to a point of riotous resistance). Also interested in Delaware, & how they rejected Lincoln's early experiment in compensated emancipation.. I think it's been deliberately obfuscated in the contemporary (anti-Confederate) telling of the good guy-bad guy version of the Civil War. But 4 slave-holding Border States officially stayed in the Union & fought secessionists. I don't think that fact undermines the ultimate, abolitionist component of Lincoln's agenda. But I do think it shows the primacy of forced Union preservation as the call to arms.. Slave-holding Unionists fighting to forcefully retain other slave-holders.. is a lot less admirable cause for some modern Americans to celebrate, or admit (?)

Maryland Civil War trivia that seems often unmentioned (or more likely nobody cares about): John Wilkes Booth was born, & ultimately buried, in Maryland.. peace.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Agreed. I've done a lot of reading on Border States over the years (especially Maryland & Delaware).. Maryland, true Border State.. Southern society, that didn't secede, but was also largely, initially opposed to fighting the seceding deep South (to a point of riotous resistance). Also interested in Delaware, & how they rejected Lincoln's early experiment in compensated emancipation.. I think it's been deliberately obfuscated in the contemporary (anti-Confederate) telling of the good guy-bad guy version of the Civil War. But 4 slave-holding Border States officially stayed in the Union & fought secessionists. I don't think that fact undermines the ultimate, abolitionist component of Lincoln's agenda. But I do think it shows the primacy of forced Union preservation as the call to arms.. Slave-holding Unionists fighting to forcefully retain other slave-holders.. is a lot less admirable cause for some modern Americans to celebrate, or admit (?)

Maryland Civil War trivia that seems often unmentioned (or more likely nobody cares about): John Wilkes Booth was born, & ultimately buried, in Maryland.. peace.

There are MANY aspects about Border States that are very problematic when it comes to seeing the ways that they allowed for a lot of mistreatment to occur in the U.S and remain hidden from many simply because the assumption was "To be in the North meant one was against slavery." Booth is not someone that can be avoided when it comes to seeing how the North was not uniform.

And something else to consider on your point is that many Border States were already in cahoots with open slavery of other ethnic groups, including Native Americans (in many places RELABELED as 'Negro' due to Paper Genocide and Census Laws).

For an excellent historical read on the issue, I Saw it at the Smithsonian Museum of the American Indian in December and honored by the amazing teachers/historians putting forth resources like this. Footnotes and more on what is considered the most extensive genocide in U.S history - and one we don't talk on, from the Yana to several other groups that resisted literal erasure from history.

Genocide and erasure at the SAME time Folks debated whether Black slaves deserved freedom and at the SAME time Blacks/Whites fought during the Civil War. It was never the case that Lincoln was innocent toward Natives nor Grant and many others when seeing legal murder and SLAVERY....

​

 

[Gxg (G²)]

There are MANY aspects about Border States that are very problematic when it comes to seeing the ways that they allowed for a lot of mistreatment to occur in the U.S and remain hidden from many simply because the assumption was "To be in the North meant one was against slavery." Booth is not someone that can be avoided when it comes to seeing how the North was not uniform.

And something else to consider on your point is that many Border States were already in cahoots with open slavery of other ethnic groups, including Native Americans (in many places RELABELED as 'Negro' due to Paper Genocide and Census Laws).

For an excellent historical read on the issue, I Saw it at the Smithsonian Museum of the American Indian in December and honored by the amazing teachers/historians putting forth resources like this. Footnotes and more on what is considered the most extensive genocide in U.S history - and one we don't talk on, from the Yana to several other groups that resisted literal erasure from history.

Genocide and erasure at the SAME time Folks debated whether Black slaves deserved freedom and at the SAME time Blacks/Whites fought during the Civil War. It was never the case that Lincoln was innocent toward Natives nor Grant and many others when seeing legal murder and SLAVERY....

​

In regards to what was noted earlier @Babe Ruth on what occurred with California, here's more on what one of the leading historians in the field said on what occurred with the California Genocide.

As a follower of Jesus, those actions will always be Anti-Christ - evil - and the reflection of what happens when you try to cover greed with religion. I stand with #Indigenous/First Nations 100% denouncing this - every demonic spirit masquerading as love when it was corrupt and STILL EVIDENT in how folks resist conversation on its impacts by censoring.

But it is unfortunate to witness how many are not aware that at the SAME time the North and the SOuth debated slavery, there were plenty of forces in the North who had no problem enslaving those who Native American and building on the same systems the Spanish Empire introduced centuries earlier - and this is something that is crucial since many aren't aware of the extensive murder/genocide that happened in California, at the same time Black folks had fled to California to escape slavery in the South AND helped build much of that area up themselves.

Again, folks forget that to be against the South did NOT mean that one was for Blacks being equal to Whites. And that is a HUGE point of concern. As an aside, I try to remind folks on this when noting what happened with Lincoln's history and what occurred specifically with the ways that Northern States were willing to join Lincoln in his plan to remove all Blacks from the North and send them to Panama.

Again, Abraham Lincoln was gonna send freed slaves to Panama instead of keeping them in the U.S because he did not believe Blacks and Whites were truly equals or able to live together ( Lincoln's Panama Plan )


This is from the National Archives showing Lincoln's letter setting aside money for Deportation ( https://prologue.blogs.archives.gov/2010/12/01/lincoln-to-slaves-go-somewhere-else/ )

• -Henry Louis Gates - Understanding Lincoln ( Lincoln's Early Views | PBS LearningMedia )

As said elsewhere:

" context on August 14th of 1862 when Lincoln hosted "a deputation (delegation) of free Negroes" — prominent African-Americans — at the White House. His message to them? It was not, "you shall be free." It was: "It is better for us both ... to be separated."

"He blames them for the war," Holzer explains. "[He] says, if it wasn't for your presence here — as if it was voluntary in the beginning — this wouldn't be happening. Go where the ban is not upon you, he tells them. Go to the Caribbean, go to Africa. Yeah, they're cruel words, they're harsh words, they're unfriendly."
-------------
And They in essence, tell Lincoln, to go to hell, that their roots and blood runs deeper in this American Soil than his... "Responding to Lincoln, The Free Blacks said, 'we appreciate your offer to send us to South America, Haiti, and so on, to appease you White folks, but our blood lines and ancestry in America is at least 200 years older than your own. America is Home and we are not leaving'. - Phil Sexton"
-------------
On Aug. 14 1862, Abraham Lincoln hosted a "Deputation of Free Negroes" at the White House, led by the Rev. Joseph Mitchell, commissioner of emigration for the Interior Department. It was the first time African Americans had been invited to the White House on a policy matter. The five men were there to discuss a scheme that even a contemporary described as a "simply absurd" piece of "charlatanism": resettling emancipated slaves on a 10,000-acre parcel of land in present-day Panama." (

)​

Of course, this hits home for me in light of my own background as an Afro-Latino when it comes to noting how Lincoln did not really have an abolitionist agenda that was concerned for the FULL freedom of those in slavery - and this is a big point to consider, especially considering what slavery was like worldwide. I can speak from historical perspective in how history of West Indians in Panama is a very in-depth one and something many would be surprised by if taking the time to study:

• -"May, “Mes de La Etnia Negra” | Black History Month in Panama" ( May, “Mes de La Etnia Negra” | Black History Month in Panama )

• -CIMARRON PEOPLE: ENSLAVED AFRICANS WHO ESCAPED FROM SPANISH MASTERS ( Cimarron People: Enslaved Africans Who Escaped from Spanish Masters )

• -"A Legacy of Strife: Rebellious Slaves in SixteenthCentury Panamá" ( https://repository.brynmawr.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1016&context=history_pubs )

As said elsewhere:

"The Afro-Panamanian population can be broken into the "Afro-Colonial", Afro-Panamanians descended from slaves brought to Panama during the colonial period and the "Afro-Antillean", West Indian immigrants from Trinidad, Barbados, Martinique and Jamaica, brought in to build the Panama Canal. Afro-Panamanians can be found in towns and cities Colón, Cristóbal and Balboa, Río Abajo area of Panama City, the Canal Zone, and province of Bocas del Toro."

"With the exception of Belize, Panama is the Central American nation with the strongest historical links to Africa and the Caribbean. The first link comes from the long history of African slavery in Panama, although the number of slaves was small by comparison to Caribbean plantations. The second link and the most important comes from the thousands of West Indian immigrants. These peoples came for the building of the Panama railroad and canal, giving way to the modern Panamanian working class. "​

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Thankful for excellent discussions:

• Southerners Against Slavery: Wesleyan Methodists in Montgomery County, North Carolina
  

As noted there:

Although I relied principally on court records, military records, newspapers, and memoirs to tell the story of Unionism in this region of North Carolina, I found two Wesleyan Methodist publications, Roy S. Nicholson’s Wesleyan Methodism in the South (1933), and Mrs. E.W. Crooks’ Life of Rev. Adam Crooks (1875), crucial to my ability to confirm the religious conversions of the above Montgomery County families.

In the following essay, I draw from both these works. As “in house” publications, they reflect the perspective of the Wesleyan Movement, yet, in combination with primary sources, they leave no doubt of the religious ideology that led the Hulins, Moores, Hurleys, and others to oppose slavery and the Confederate Cause.

Vikki Bynum, Moderator

Southerners Against Slavery: Wesleyan Methodists in Montgomery County, North Carolina

By Vikki Bynum


Rev. Adam Crooks (1824-1874)

The man most responsible for bringing Wesleyan Methodism to the Randolph/Montgomery County area of North Carolina was Rev. Adam Crooks, who was originally from Leesville, Carroll County, Ohio, where he was born in 1824. According to Crooks’ biographer, his wife Elizabeth Willits Crooks, in 1841 he joined those northern Methodists who split from the Methodist Episcopal Church over slavery. The following year, in December 1842, the splinter group produced a newspaper, the True Wesleyan, which heralded the establishment of Wesleyan Methodism in the United States. These Wesleyans claimed to embody the doctrinal standards of early Methodism as established under the guidance of Rev. John Wesley. They opposed worldly habits such as the use of whiskey and tobacco and ostentatious dress and adornment. Most important to the history of Montgomery County, they opposed the ownership of human beings by other human beings.

Opposition to slavery, and specifically to the degrading and violent means by which it was maintained, was not limited to Methodists of the North. In 1847, during its Allegheny Conference in Mesopotamia, Ohio, the Wesleyan Church received an urgent letter from “Free Methodists” of Guilford County, North Carolina, who requested the services of a Wesleyan preacher. In this old Quaker stronghold of the South, anti-slavery principles had never completely died. “There is much more anti-slavery sentiment in this part of North Carolina than I had supposed,” Crooks later observed, “owing, in great measure, to the influence of the Society of Friends.” During his stay in North Carolina, he was amused to be “taken for a Quaker, go wherever I will,” even once after preaching in a Methodist Episcopal house. Crooks concluded that this assumption reflected the antislavery doctrine he preached and the “plain coat” that he wore.

The call from North Carolina had great appeal to Crooks. By age twenty, he had become a Wesleyan exhorter who preached against the evils of slavery. In August 1845, he joined the Allegheny Conference as a junior preacher, and received a six-week assignment to the Erie circuit, where he ministered to a small Erie City church comprised of many fugitive slaves. Now, he agreed to travel to North Carolina. With the sectional crisis over slavery growing fiercer by the day, it took a great deal of courage to enter the slaveholding South with the express purpose of preaching against slavery. In preparation for his mission he was ordained an Elder.

Crooks encountered many Methodists in North Carolina who resented being forced to remain with the Methodist Episcopal Church in the wake of its national division into pro- and anti-slavery denominations. Finding it ”impracticable” to join the anti-slavery Northern Division of the church, they formed a third division, the “Free Methodist Church.” According to Crooks, “up to this time, they had no knowledge of the existence of the Wesleyan Methodist connection.” Once they learned of the Wesleyan persuasion, he said, they immediately sent for preachers, convened, and adopted the Wesleyan principles as their own.

Pro-slavery North Carolinians labeled Crooks a “[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]-thief,” an abolitionist, and an advocate of racial amalgamation (race mixing). Nevertheless, he preached before large and small congregations and regularly denounced slavery in the presence of slaveholders. In October, 1847, Crooks presided over the founding of Freedom’s Hill Church, located in the old Snow Camp community of present-day Alamance County, N.C., and the first Wesleyan Methodist Church in the South.

In 1850, despite violent opposition to Wesleyan preachers by pro-slavery mobs, Crooks prepared to preach in Montgomery County at the invitation of members of Lane’s Chapel and Lovejoy Chapel. Twice, he was warned by letter to cancel those plans.​