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Confederate States of America: What Would've Happened if the South Won the Civil War.

Discussion in 'History & Genealogy' started by Gxg (G²), Jan 15, 2013.

  1. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Sanctimonious old crackpot

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    Why would God end all prophecies concerning the nations with the Roman Empire, omitting the rise of great nations and empires since. Why a two thousand year prophecy gap between the days of Christ and the end time?
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2013
  2. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) CF Ambassador

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    Again, please take it elsewhere as there are other threads for it and it doesn't belong here as that is not the focus.
     
  3. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) CF Ambassador

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    Very true - as both sides had good and both had bad. Hindsight is always 20/20..


    A lot of slaves did feel like they could do better if they remained in the South - and some blacks owned slaves as well and built their own communities while slave-masters who were not abusive sought to ensure they were provided for/given wages which were fair just like other lower-class whites were.
    Indeed..
     
  4. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) CF Ambassador

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    On the issue of Native Americans in the Civil War, found this and thought it was very relevant to the point you raised:

     
  5. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) CF Ambassador

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  6. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) CF Ambassador

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    Last edited: Jul 31, 2014
  7. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) CF Ambassador

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  8. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) CF Ambassador

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    Thought it was noteworthy to mention that if some of our politicians had gotten their way, Cuba would be one of the states. Specifically, Jefferson wanted to annex Cuba (probably for the lucrative sugar crops) and later on, some Southern interests wanted to buy Cuba from Spain, so that there would be another slave state. There was even a proposal that if Spain didn't sell, we should take the island by force--the Ostend Manifesto (more at American Presidents Blog: The Ostend Manifesto and The Ostend Manifesto: Deadly Threats | Freedmen's Patrol )

    Ostend Manifesto - YouTube

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    Last edited: Sep 19, 2014
  9. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) CF Ambassador

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  10. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) CF Ambassador

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  11. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) CF Ambassador

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  12. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) CF Ambassador

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    Thought it would be worthwhile sharing one of the best documentaries I've seen on the issue of slavery and the ways that it has literally shaped the world when it comes to slavery in the Latin American world and the ways that things regarding the Confederacy's battles were intimately connected to a global context...

     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2014
  13. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) CF Ambassador

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    Really amazing article (in regards to the OP) on the political impact of Haiti's successful revolution - and the Confederate propaganda which used Haiti as an example to bolster it's cause...as seen if one chooses to go o to H-Net Reviews or the following:



    What occurred with the Revolution - led by Toussaint Louverture - is a significant turning point in human history.

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    As another noted wisely:





    As said before elsewhere, “The freedom of the negroes, if recognised in Saint Domingue [Haiti] and legalised by France would at all times be a rallying point for freedom-seekers of the New World”, as said by U.S. president Thomas Jefferson...and it's not a hidden reality that the U.S actively worked with others to undermine Haiti since they were VERY fearful of their growth. In fact, the slave-owning President Thomas Jefferson imposed sanctions on Haiti in 1804 that lasted until 1862 - with these decades of sanctions cutting Haiti off from the world and even from the rest of the Caribbean since every ship that docked from a European country or from the U.S. could be an invasion or carry new demands for onerous concessions. Nontheless, Haiti survived.....and many blacks sought to immigrate to Haiti - Haiti occupied a HUGE role in the Black Consciousness...
    (more discussed in Sanctuary: African Americans and Empire - Nicole Waligora-Davis - Google Books and Encyclopedia of African American History, 1619-1895: From the Colonial ... - Google Books ).

    In fact, Frederick Douglass, in his “Lecture on Haiti,” which he delivered on Jan. 2, 1893 at the famous Quinn Chapel of the African Methodist Episcopal Church, posits that the Haitian Revolution was a turning point in world history and equally in the human narrative of freedom. He noted that the slaves at Saint-Domingue were also actors in history and key makers of modernity as well as proponents of freedom and defenders of the rights of all men and women. Moreover, Douglass also used the Haitian revolution to address the essentialist character of race and racial groups—an idea that was prevalent in his time—which scientific racism of the 19th century employed to account for “racial achievement” in world history.

    But many Western nations still chose to oppose Haiti - for fears that Haiti's successful revolt could inspire slave insurrections in the United States led to increased restrictions on the movements of blacks in Southern states, with the racism of whites/Europeans against blacks being hard to ignore. But during the period of antebellum slavery and after, Haiti profoundly impacted the imagination of African-American political activism. Prior to the Civil War, Frederick Douglass spoke for most African-Americans when he referred to the "bright example" of Haiti, calling Toussaint Louverture "the noble liberator and law-giver of his brave and dauntless people."

    Haiti went on to play a pivotal role (despite the attacks against it) in the liberation of Latin America from Spanish colonial rule - as they provided ships, soldiers, guns and provisions from their supplies Simón Bolívar when he was desperate. However, Haiti was still a threat to the U.S and thus they sought to take it by force later on...

    People see the destruction that has occurred in Haiti - but not many wish to see that the stage for that was set by the neo-colonial manipulations of the Haitian economy and governments by the U.S. (as well as Canada and France), going back to the U.S. effort to destroy the independent state after the revolutionary slaves defeated the French and fear spread that success would motivate U.S. slaves to also rebel.

    Not many consider the economic consequences of the Haitian Revolution and how the event served to diffuse and expand tropical exports elsewhere in the
    Americas and amplify consumption in the United States and Western Europe
    . It literally shifted the way that trade actually occurred - which later impacted dynamics of the Confederacy and the Union. And interestingly enough, even others for the Confederacy and the Golden Circle have noted the significance of the matter in how racial fear promoted a lot of the reactions that occurred - more seen in Hamilton vs Jefferson & Washington on Haitian Revolution | Southern Nationalist Network and Knights of the Golden Circle: Secret Empire, Southern Secession, Civil War by David C. Keehn

    In light of how fear of a second Haitian Revolution was a fear in both the North and the South, Who knows what would have happened if Haiti had to deal with the Confederacy instead of the Union - but the history is fascinating. There was a pretty intensive book that I read recently on the matter and that amazed me, entitled Encountering Revolution: Haiti and the Making of the Early Republic by Ashli White

     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2014
  14. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) CF Ambassador

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    Concerning the issue, for anyone interested in seeing the history of blacks in similar western films like Django, one can go to the following:



    In addition to that, there's Separate Cinema: Harlem Goes West - as well as Cinemas of the Black Diaspora: Diversity, Dependence, and Oppositionality - Google Books

    Also, for others...

    The Black Cowboy - YouTube

    Additionally, there's an excellent book on the subject I HIGHLY enjoyed going through - one that really helps to bring home the point on how much history has been lost when it comes to Blacks and the Western Frontier. It's entitled "Black, Red, and Deadly" by Art T. Burton
    ""]
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    Last edited: Sep 22, 2014
  15. PassionFruit

    PassionFruit I woke up like dis

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    Thanks for the information. Always a plethora of sources from you. :wave::wave:
     
  16. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) CF Ambassador

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    Glad that it came in handy - and on the issue, if you have any resources which you feel would be on point for the OP, I'd greatly appreciate it :)

    Concerning the Golden Circle (the secret society known as the Knights of the Golden Circle that sought to establish a slave empire spanning the southern United States, Mexico, Cuba, and the West Indies), there were some excellent resources I came across recently that I appreciated:

     
  17. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) CF Ambassador

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  18. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) CF Ambassador

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    Came across this recently and was very much glad for what it broke down in relation to the Civil War - as seen here:


    As said there:

    The Lincoln administration struggled with the idea of authorizing the recruitment of Black troops, concerned that such a move would spark the border states to secede. On July 17, 1862, Congress passed the Second Confiscation and Militia Act, freeing the enslaved who had plantation owners in the Confederate Army. Two days later, slavery was abolished in the territories of the United States. The National Archives breaks down how enslaved Africans impacted the Civil War.


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    Robert E. Lee Made Fighting Possible
    Gen. Robert E. Lee was a beloved figure in the South, and it took him, through virtually pleading, to convince the Confederate Congress to begin enlisting Black soldiers. The legislation required the consent of the plantation owner and would confer the rights of a freeman after the war, says history.net. Yet a month after the order came out, Virginia was able to muster no more than 50 enlistees.

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    Many Black Men Served
    About 179,000 Black men (10 percent of the Union Army) served as soldiers in the U.S. Army and another 19,000 served in the Navy. Black soldiers’ impact was varied, according to civilwar.org. They not only fought but served in artillery and infantry and performed all noncombat support functions that sustain an army, as well. And there were nearly 80 Black commissioned officers.