Conditions And Requirements Of Salvation

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Krummholz

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If obedience to Jesus isn't necessary for salvation, then does that make obedience to Jesus optional?
In a word, absolutely - which is why it's no wonder so many have opted for a false gospel wherein all one must "do" (ironically) to be saved is start having positive thoughts about Jesus, which they assume is "believing."

If so, how does one go about selecting which teachings of Jesus they feel like following? Can they decide to follow some teachings now and then maybe later they'll feel like they don't really want that option anymore so they'll try some other teachings?
Actually, that's easier than a lot of people may think -

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires," (2 Tim 4:3)

If obedience is optional, then choice becomes god, and the object of one's reverence a purely subjective thing, subject to the whim and caprice of one's feelings and desires - which is pretty much the text-book definition of our fleshly natures - also which (ironically) we're commanded to crucify every day.

We are, imho, seeing this very thing growing wholesale and out of control in the church today - rebellious, humanistic, moral relativism which is being used by people to justify all manner of evil, from supporting abortion to embracing homosexual behavior. And if you follow any of these discussions, particularly on the latter topic, you'll see immediately the effort to deny the Word of God, to twist it, to ridicule it, even to lie about it.
 
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K

Krummholz

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Explain the thief on the cross.
Sure, he is the only person in history to ever actually, physically (versus symbolically) share in Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection.

For him, it wasn't commanded - to command someone to share in His death, burial, and resurrection who was already nailed to a cross next to Jesus would have been rather silly.

Nevertheless, only those who put their faith and trust in Him can share in the salvation He offers - a salvation He only promises to those whose faith and trust culminates in participating in His death, burial, and resurrection. The salvation He offers is 1) death to our selves, and 2) forgiveness and freedom from sin - the ability to walk in newness of life (resurrection). Rom 6:1ff.

The ONLY thing that distinguishes the thief on the cross from the rest of us is that he physically died WITH Jesus.

Similarly, the ONLY thing that distinguishes the other thief on the cross from the other thief was that he didn't put his faith and trust in Jesus for salvation.

I love the thief on the cross example, because it concretely demonstrates BOTH conditions of salvation: faith/trust in Jesus; and sharing in His death, burial, and resurrection. And actually, resurrection can be thought of as a third condition - for it is absolutely necessary, but is itself contingent on the other two (faith/trust, and death/burial).
 
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Honest Al

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Works play no part in earning or keeping salvation.

I think there's a huge misunderstanding in much of the Christian world when it comes to this subject:

On the one hand, it's absolutely true that "works play no part in the salvation" which the Bible calls being "born again." (Unless you consider believing a "work.") But on the other hand, works most definitely will play a part when we stand before God in the judgment:

"He (the Father) shall reward every man according to his works." {Jesus in Matthew 16:27}

"Thou renderest to every man according to his work." {David in Psalms 62:12}

"...and they were judged every man according to their works." {John in Revelation 20:12, 13

"He will judge all people according to what they have done." {Solomon in Proverbs 24:12 NLT}

"God... will judge all people according to what they have done." {Paul in Romans 2:5, 6 NLT}

We must ever remind ourselves that "all Scripture is inspired by God," and therefore "all Scripture" should have a place in our belief system. We just need, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, to put it all together properly.

God Bless
 
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tremble

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I think there's a huge misunderstanding in much of the Christian world when it comes to this subject:

On the one hand, it is absolutely true that "works play no part in the salvation" which the Bible calls being "born again." But on the other hand, works most definitely will play a part when we stand before God in the judgment:

"He (the Father) shall reward every man according to his works." {Jesus in Matthew 16:27}

"Thou renderest to every man according to his work." {David in Psalms 62:12}

"...and they were judged every man according to their works." {John in Revelation 20:12, 13

"He will judge all people according to what they have done." {Solomon in Proverbs 24:12 NLT}

"God... will judge all people according to what they have done." {Paul in Romans 2:5, 6 NLT}

We must always try to remember that "all Scripture is inspired by God," and therefore "all Scripture" should have a place in our belief system. We just need, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, to put it all together properly.

God Bless

Nice post
 
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Honest Al

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Anticipating what many are thinking, let me go a step farther:

Many will say, "But all of the passages you shared showing that we will be judged according to our works have nothing to do with our eternal destiny ("salvation"), but only with the reward which will be given to the "saved."

But such thinking doesn't harmonize with either Paul or Christ (in my opion:)):

"God... will judge all people according to what they have done. He will give eternal life to those who persist on doing what is good." {Romans 2:5-9 NLT}

"Those who have done good will rise to eternal life." {John 5:29 NLT}
 
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Honest Al

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I'd like to share one more important passage that most surely has to fit somewhere in our belief system. And I'll share it from 2 translations:

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven. Only those who do what my Father in heaven wants will enter." {Matthew 7:21 NIrV}

"Not all people who sound religious are really godly. They may refer to me as 'Lord,' but they still won't enter the Kingdom of Heaven. The decisive issue is whether they obey my Father in heaven." {Matthew 7:21 NLT}

God Bless

P.S.--If I may, I'd like to ask one question in reference to the above passage: Is there anything confusing, or difficult to understand, about it.
 
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K

Krummholz

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Some people seem to accept the notion that obedience AFTER becoming a Christian is ok, but obedience IN salvation is not.

They call both "works."

"Works" after becoming a Christian are required and good but,
"Works" in becoming a Christian are unnecessary and bad.

Ironically, they assert that "there is nothing one can DO to become a Christian" (because that'd be a work)

...but in the same breath they say all one must "do" is believe. Which is it, to do or not to do?

Obedience, w/r to the gospel and salvation is anathema for some; but,

"...it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?" I Pet 4:17

Paul was pretty explicit about this too:

"...dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus." 2 Thess 1:8

Obedience to the gospel involves BOTH Christian and those who are not yet part of the household of God. How is it then the latter must obey if they are to be saved?
 
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tremble

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I'd like to share one more important passage that most surely has to fit somewhere in our belief system. And I'll share it from 2 translations:

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven. Only those who do what my Father in heaven wants will enter." {Matthew 7:21 NIrV}

"Not all people who sound religious are really godly. They may refer to me as 'Lord,' but they still won't enter the Kingdom of Heaven. The decisive issue is whether they obey my Father in heaven." {Matthew 7:21 NLT}

God Bless

P.S.--If I may, I'd like to ask one question in reference to the above passage: Is there anything confusing, or difficult to understand, about it.

Hmmm....there's nothing here to argue with, which means...I have nothing to post about! AHHHHHHH!
:argh:
 
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