Colo. baker faces 're-education' training

[Four Angels Standing]

This thread is not on abortion. The topic is the baker and the legal judgement. The journalist used the word "re-education" and the folks took, imho, leaps from there. The use of words like "Marxist retraining" and "gulag" hurt credibility. It is the kind of thing that makes others, like me, roll their eyes because the words used scream bias and assumptions.

Edit to add - that use of those words fail to convince me of the argument being made. I stop listening, yet there are some good arguments to be made for the bakers position.

I think when a businessman is told in order to continue to remain in business he has to be re-educated as to how to deal with a certain segment of the public given he avows Christian principles while in business, speaks for itself in that it is not indicative of a free society.
That he has to turn in reports that state he's overseen the re-education of his staff , when the whole issue that brought this forth to the state officials attention was his Christian faith and values , is indicative of a totalitarian model of conformity being slowly and effectively seeded into the Colorado business model.

And the Marxist reference is applicable when we're being told we need to be re-educated so as to concede that which our faith defines as immoral sin that God calls an abomination, is not so if we expect to remain in business, unsupervised by the state authorities, while Christian.

Karl Marx and the Revolutionary Roots of Redefining Marriage
Dr. Paul Kengor's “Takedown” traces the roots of the “anti-family” movement through the history of socialists and communists
July 03, 2015

 

[Four Angels Standing]

Considering that both of them were progressives....duh!

How do you define Karl Marx progressiveness?

 

[MoonlessNight]

There's a lot of concern going around in this thread, but very little of it for the man who tried to avoid violating his conscience and was rewarded for his efforts with a forced government education and continuous surveillance to detect further thoughtcrimes.

 

[FreeinChrist]

I think when a businessman is told in order to continue to remain in business he has to be re-educated as to how to deal with a certain segment of the public given he avows Christian principles while in business, speaks for itself in that it is not indicative of a free society.
That he has to turn in reports that state he's overseen the re-education of his staff , when the whole issue that brought this forth to the state officials attention was his Christian faith and values , is indicative of a totalitarian model of conformity being slowly and effectively seeded into the Colorado business model.

And the Marxist reference is applicable when we're being told we need to be re-educated so as to concede that which our faith defines as immoral sin that God calls an abomination, is not so if we expect to remain in business, unsupervised by the state authorities, while Christian.

Karl Marx and the Revolutionary Roots of Redefining Marriage
Dr. Paul Kengor's “Takedown” traces the roots of the “anti-family” movement through the history of socialists and communists
July 03, 2015

Staff training to be compliant with a state law is not "Marxist re-education". It just isn't. It is just muddying up the discussion.

 

[MikeK]

There's a lot of concern going around in this thread, but very little of it for the man who tried to avoid violating his conscience and was rewarded for his efforts with a forced government education and continuous surveillance to detect further thoughtcrimes.

Probably because that discussion has been had in this forum over a dozen times. You might not have noticed.

 

[Chrystal-J]

I wonder if the 're-education' will force them to renounce their religious beliefs.

 

[MikeK]

I wonder if the 're-education' will force them to renounce their religious beliefs.

Do you actually, honestly wonder that? Like deep down, you think that maybe they're going to be tested for what they believe rather than what they know about legal and illegal treatment of customers?

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Revelation 13

Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

1 And I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten diadems, and upon his heads names of blasphemy.
2 And the beast, which I saw, was like to a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him his own strength, and great power.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were slain to death: and his death's wound was healed. And all the earth was in admiration after the beast.
4 And they adored the dragon, which gave power to the beast: and they adored the beast, saying: Who is like to the beast? and who shall be able to fight with him?
5 And there was given to him a mouth speaking great things, and blasphemies: and power was given to him to do two and forty months.
6 And he opened his mouth unto blasphemies against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them. And power was given him over every tribe, and people, and tongue, and nation.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth adored him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb, which was slain from the beginning of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that shall lead into captivity, shall go into captivity: he that shall kill by the sword, must be killed by the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
11 And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns, like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon.
12 And he executed all the power of the former beast in his sight; and he caused the earth, and them that dwell therein, to adore the first beast, whose wound to death was healed.
13 And he did great signs, so that he made also fire to come down from heaven unto the earth in the sight of men.
14 And he seduced them that dwell on the earth, for the signs, which were given him to do in the sight of the beast, saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make the image of the beast, which had the wound by the sword, and lived.
15 And it was given him to give life to the image of the beast, and that the image of the beast should speak; and should cause, that whosoever will not adore the image of the beast, should be slain.
16 And he shall make all, both little and great, rich and poor, freemen and bondmen, to have a character in their right hand, or on their foreheads.
17 And that no man might buy or sell, but he that hath the character, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. He that hath understanding, let him count the number of the beast. For it is the number of a man: and the number of him is six hundred sixty-six.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Do you actually, honestly wonder that? Like deep down, you think that maybe they're going to be tested for what they believe rather than what they know about legal and illegal treatment of customers?

That is a possibility....

 

[civilwarbuff]

Revelation 13

Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

1 And I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten diadems, and upon his heads names of blasphemy.
2 And the beast, which I saw, was like to a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him his own strength, and great power.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were slain to death: and his death's wound was healed. And all the earth was in admiration after the beast.
4 And they adored the dragon, which gave power to the beast: and they adored the beast, saying: Who is like to the beast? and who shall be able to fight with him?
5 And there was given to him a mouth speaking great things, and blasphemies: and power was given to him to do two and forty months.
6 And he opened his mouth unto blasphemies against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them. And power was given him over every tribe, and people, and tongue, and nation.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth adored him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb, which was slain from the beginning of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that shall lead into captivity, shall go into captivity: he that shall kill by the sword, must be killed by the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
11 And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns, like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon.
12 And he executed all the power of the former beast in his sight; and he caused the earth, and them that dwell therein, to adore the first beast, whose wound to death was healed.
13 And he did great signs, so that he made also fire to come down from heaven unto the earth in the sight of men.
14 And he seduced them that dwell on the earth, for the signs, which were given him to do in the sight of the beast, saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make the image of the beast, which had the wound by the sword, and lived.
15 And it was given him to give life to the image of the beast, and that the image of the beast should speak; and should cause, that whosoever will not adore the image of the beast, should be slain.
16 And he shall make all, both little and great, rich and poor, freemen and bondmen, to have a character in their right hand, or on their foreheads.
17 And that no man might buy or sell, but he that hath the character, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. He that hath understanding, let him count the number of the beast. For it is the number of a man: and the number of him is six hundred sixty-six.

Very appropriate....

 

[concretecamper]

Do you actually, honestly wonder that?

That reminds me of people when they say "well, to be honest with you........ ". She would not have written it if she did not wonder that.....<staff edit>

 

[Chrystal-J]

That is a possibility....

Yes, I believe it's a possibility also.

 

[concretecamper]

Yes, I believe it's a possibility also.

Do you seriously, honestly, genuinely, absolutely believe it is a possibility? Sorry, the devil made me do it.

 

[Chrystal-J]

If they're trying to get the bakers to reject their beliefs on marriage--then, yes I think they will be "re-educated" in a way in which they will have to renounce their religious beliefs. (Or go to jail for refusing to do so.) But, like LivingWord posted (in #112), I'm not surprised by this turn of events.

 

[WarriorAngel]

To my knowledge - i had no idea he was forced for re-training.

Who here knew?

I just found out.
So even if the discussion has been had before - a new bit of info has been introduced.
Or was it old news he had to go for retraining?

 

[WarriorAngel]

If they're trying to get the bakers to reject their beliefs on marriage--then, yes I think they will be "re-educated" in a way in which they will have to renounce their religious beliefs. (Or go to jail for refusing to do so.) But, like LivingWord posted (in #112), I'm not surprised by this turn of events.

christian persecution - as Jesus said - would continue.
Hold your head up - He said.
They'll do the same to you, He said.

 

[PsychoeDial]

I wonder if the 're-education' will force them to renounce their religious beliefs.

That's the implication in the re-education training. The beliefs stop when you own a business. Beware, and be aware, of those who say that's how it should be in America.

The cultural Marxism observation and the gulag reference someone interjected to describe what's happening in this country including this particular baker's state punishment, and other such re-education programs in other areas, is valid.
You'll notice though that while it's criticized for being interjected, someone personally attacking the posters that refer to such material is arguing for tolerance while calling people lazy and shameful. But that's the way of the programming that is being discussed. So if anything that inflammatory remark is evidence of that at least.

People in the work place are punished for not comporting their opinions toward certain individuals in the work place. They're sent to gender sensitivity training courses so as to retrain their thought about women, homosexuality or transsexuals. If they refuse they can lose their job and the reason for dismissal follows them when future employers inquire while reviewing new applications.

You'll also notice that promoting that which is against scripture is something that certain Christians are doing with greater frequency. They're intolerant of Christians holding to scripture and yet prideful they're behaving in that way because they're promoting tolerance for gays.
It's a sick world. Jesus died to save it but he didn't cleanse it when he left.

 

[WarriorAngel]

it shouldnt be that way - ever.
the state has no business in business.

lais·sez-faire
ˌlesā ˈfer/
noun

1. a policy or attitude of letting things take their own course, without interfering.
   synonyms: noninterventionist, noninterventional, noninterfering; More
   
   • ECONOMICS
     abstention by governments from interfering in the workings of the free market.
     "laissez-faire capitalism"
     synonyms: free enterprise, free trade, nonintervention, free-market capitalism,market forces
     "an agenda that embraces the concept of laissez-faire"

 

[PsychoeDial]

To my knowledge - i had no idea he was forced for re-training.

Who here knew?

I just found out.
So even if the discussion has been had before - a new bit of info has been introduced.
Or was it old news he had to go for retraining?

I've always known this baker was forced to comply with the re-education program commanded by the state.
I called him . We talked for quite awhile. He's a very gentle voiced individual who says his mission is to change the law, not arrange his business so he can operate making wedding cakes within the prescribed parameters that would allow such a thing and at the same time still refuse to create cakes for gay weddings.
He's been heavily harassed as you can imagine. So when you call the staff are also very nice. From the time they answer you'll hear a beep in the background. That's the sign you're being recorded. It sounds like the same audio alert as is on 911 calls.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I've always known this baker was forced to comply with the re-education program commanded by the state.
I called him . We talked for quite awhile. He's a very gentle voiced individual who says his mission is to change the law, not arrange his business so he can operate making wedding cakes within the prescribed parameters that would allow such a thing and at the same time still refuse to create cakes for gay weddings.
He's been heavily harassed as you can imagine. So when you call the staff are also very nice. From the time they answer you'll hear a beep in the background. That's the sign you're being recorded. It sounds like the same audio alert as is on 911 calls.

yep - illegal harassment.

we are a capitalism...and laizzes faire is the doctrine of the US.