Colin Kaepernick sits during National Anthem

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Shiloh Raven

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It's not having wealth that is the issue. It's the hypocrisy in pretending that while you hold onto it, you are helping the masses of the oppressed by sitting down during the National Anthem. You had my real thinking in the fact that I made reference to Francis of Assisi, Gandhi, and Mother Teresa in my post, but you disregarded that entirely, for some reason.

Let's take an example. There's a Hollywood actor (whose name escapes me at the moment) who is what some people would call an environmental nut. BUT he rides his bicycle everywhere, heats his house with solar panels, is a vegetarian, and so on. He at least puts his stated principles into his life. Now, compare that with the likes of Al Gore who has become a millionaire all over again by flying around the world, logging tens of thousands of miles and burning how much fuel, pouring pollutants into the atmosphere....in order to tell people to worry about and do something about climate control. And he's not the only one. See the difference? When Colin K. actually does something significant to alter the situation that he says he cares about, I may see the matter differently,

Thank you for your explanation. I appreciate you clearing up the misunderstanding for me. And I believe the actor you are referring to is Leonardo DiCaprio.
 
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Mountain_Girl406

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The problem is, this Hollywood actor, you can't remember his name, and I can't figure out who you are referring to by your description, so while his lifestyle is making the impact of one less car, one less meat eater, etc...his message isn't reaching beyond
Al Gore may not have a small carbon footprint but the documentary he produced caused many others to recuse theirs.
Michael Jordan may well have released a statement, and I should probably look it up, but as far as I recall it got no where near the press that Colin Kapernick did with his action.
 
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Albion

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The problem is, this Hollywood actor, you can't remember his name, and I can't figure out who you are referring to by your description, so while his lifestyle is making the impact of one less car, one less meat eater, etc...his message isn't reaching beyond
Well, I'm not sure that that's the case. I know of his lifestyle and beliefs, so it's obviously not something that no one knows about even if the name slips my memory at the moment. And as for the impact? He at least is consistent. Acting like a pouty child while doing nothing meaningful isn't likely to alter society, is it? I don't know if I agree with your comment about the film Gore made, but it's something. What's Colin doing?
 
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aieyiamfu

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SANTA CLARA, Calif. (KTVU) - San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick did not stand during the National Anthem at Friday night's preseason game.

Kaepernick spoke to NFL Media after the game saying, "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses Black people and people of color."

http://www.ktvu.com/news/196372466-story
Good for him.
 
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aieyiamfu

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Yep, he won't stand in honor of the country that has made him a millionaire based on nothing more than athletic ability.

But, he has that right. Mostly thanks to people like this marine who also didn't stand for the national anthem:

Cq4ug8zUEAICgt_.jpg
He has that ability as an autonomous human being, that marine has nothing to do with that.
 
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aieyiamfu

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Yep, he won't stand in honor of the country that has made him a millionaire based on nothing more than athletic ability.

But, he has that right. Mostly thanks to people like this marine who also didn't stand for the national anthem:

Cq4ug8zUEAICgt_.jpg
People who put sports as a high priority in life made him a millionare.
 
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aieyiamfu

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That's sad that the Marine in the picture was injured while doing his job.

But this insistence that the military is all about protecting our rights and freedoms is just absurd.

http://truthvoice.com/2015/05/5-rea...se-to-say-we-owe-our-freedom-to-the-military/
I served in the military, was deployed to Iraq and I can tell you all the bluster about protect rights and freedom is just nonsense. It took me years to figure that out but it's the truth. No average citizen benefits from war and military agression, in fact they stand to be put at a loss by it.
 
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Hank77

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No. Actually the enemies of the United States flourish because of the freedoms they have. But their primary objective is to destroy those freedoms. Even responsible blacks recognize that Black Lives Matter is essentially subversion of law and order. And when there is no law and order, what you have is anarchy. A person who sincerely believes that the USA is oppressive should migrate to North Korea, Iran, or Saudi Arabia, and see how far he gets with his rants. To disrespect the flag or the National Anthem is to display enmity to the country to which they belong (applicable to any country).
Are you going to tell Jehovah Witnesses that they should pledge allegiance to the flag, which would be violating their religious beliefs about graven images, or they should go live in another country? That would be violating their Constitutional Rights of Freedom of Religion and Speech.
 
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aieyiamfu

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The oath every officer and enlisted service member takes is to support and defend the Constitution against enemies foreign and domestic.

Now if your point is not every US war or conflict involved defending our Constitutional rights, then that matter should be taken up with every person who occupied the WH and Capitol Hill.
If that oath were taken seriously most likely the military would turn on their own government.
 
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aieyiamfu

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Why it it absurd? The military is there to protect and defend. What is absurd is saying that blacks are oppressed in America. If he feels so oppressed, he should migrate to Saudi Arabia or Iran.
Blacks are opress ed in Amerika and to say any difference shows a serious lack of information, or is an outright lie. The military has not protected and defended this country in any meaningful way since 1814.
 
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aieyiamfu

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To paraphrase President Obama "he didn't make that". He only did so because of the country in which he lives. He wouldn't have been a millionaire if he were born in France, or Oman, or Niger, or China. Only in America, and yet he won't even stand for the national anthem, which is spitting g in the face of veterans like the injured marine who stood as best he could during the anthem.

It's his right to not stand. It's my right to ridicule him for it.
It is your right to ridicule him, but it is sad the flawed statist mindset you must have to believe he is worry of ridicule. I take pity on you.
 
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Tallguy88

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It is your right to ridicule him, but it is sad the flawed statist mindset you must have to believe he is worry of ridicule. I take pity on you.
The country is more than the state. If the government ceased existing, there would still be America. What are the French on now? The Fifth Republic? Each new government isn't a new France.
 
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Albion

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It is your right to ridicule him, but it is sad the flawed statist mindset you must have to believe he is worry of ridicule..

I'm putting yours third after Tallguy's and Kaepernick's on the list of views that are the most compelling. :)
 
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Hank77

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The last flap re: National Anthem was Gabby Douglas, US gymnast in Rio. She got called out by the sports media and social media for standing only at attention during the playing of the National Anthem.
I grew up in the 50-60s, in an original colony state. We were always very patriotic and Memorial Day was a big deal.
In school, hand over heart for the pledge, but not for the National Anthem. For that you stood at attention, looking at the flag. From all the research that I have done, hand over heart for the Anthem did not start at all until around 1976 and became expected after 9/11. I still don't do that, but it does not mean that I don't respect my country. The Anthem is not a vow, the pledge is.
 
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SummerMadness

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It's not having wealth that is the issue. It's the hypocrisy in pretending that while you hold onto it, you are helping the masses of the oppressed by sitting down during the National Anthem. You had my real thinking in the fact that I made reference to Francis of Assisi, Gandhi, and Mother Teresa in my post, but you disregarded that entirely, for some reason.

Let's take an example. There's a Hollywood actor (whose name escapes me at the moment) who is what some people would call an environmental nut. BUT he rides his bicycle everywhere, heats his house with solar panels, is a vegetarian, and so on. He at least puts his stated principles into his life. Now, compare that with the likes of Al Gore who has become a millionaire all over again by flying around the world, logging tens of thousands of miles and burning how much fuel, pouring pollutants into the atmosphere....in order to tell people to worry about and do something about climate control. And he's not the only one. See the difference? When Colin K. actually does something significant to alter the situation that he says he cares about, I may see the matter differently,
He is lending visible support to an issue, that is quite important, much like the press conference held by Muhammad Ali, Bill Russell, Jim Brown, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Willie Davis in opposition to the Vietnam War. Given how corporatized sports has become, it's a wonder anyone is making their voice heard, especially considering how the athletes in the WNBA were threatened. Moreover, how do you know he is not doing more? You've just noticed this action by him, but he's spoken out on issues before.

A movement requires more than a Mother Teresa or someone "going green," it requires policy changes. You complain about Al Gore traveling around the world, but his goal is policy change, which will do more to stem the issues of climate change than not flying in a plane. The goal is not no pollution, it is to change the overall level of pollution, saying his world travel is causing significant pollution is a specious argument. People working on climate change know that encouraging people to use energy saving bulbs in meaningless when they derive all their energy from coal.

Someone mentioned Michael Jordan, but I don't see how he really took a stand on anything. He gave money to a police organization that studies issues and makes policy suggestions to police departments; I don't think the problem requires more study, we know the issue and we know the solutions that work. Likewise, he gave money to the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, which is not working on the issue of police brutality, they're working on an array of issues, but his money would have been better used directed at a group directly working on the problem, like a local chapter of Black Lives Matter. The reality is Jordan gave a corporate statement that doesn't really address the issue and gave money to organizations not directly working on the problem. While these organizations both do good work, and it's good to see someone support their endeavors, let's not pretend as if his actions has any relation to stemming issues of police brutality.

But I agree, more action solidifies your standing on speaking out. But sometimes just standing up is enough, Tommie Smith, Peter Norman and John Carlos were instrumental to movements on human rights. While I don't think his actions rise to the level of Tommie Smith et al., it is not meaningless. I would argue that ad hominem attacks saying an athlete is washed up shows a certain lack of maturity because that is simply lashing out at someone you disagree with.
 
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Albion

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Hank,

That's an interesting point. I kinda had the same view of the expected posture during the Anthem, but I can't remember any time when it was overtly changed. The way the pledge has evolved over the years would surprise most people, so there's probably a similar history to how we respond to the National Anthem, too.
 
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