CNN article: What happened to God in America?

[SharonL]

The Bible speaks that in the end times that we will search for Him and will not find Him. It is happening with vengance - taking God out of schools, out of public places, out of laws. Over and Over one atheist complains and they win the battle.

 

[SeventhValley]

Dont know about church attendance in Nigeria but there is no country in Europe or North America where church attendance is in double digits. Russian church attendance at 4% (if that accurate) is roughly the same as Roman Catholic church attendance and protestant attendance in New York.

But i agree what others have said, the west wants their pagan gods back, pedaresty and all. I wonder with all their christian bashing if the pagan-enlighteners ever paused a moment and pondered why Hypatia taught in the christian city of Alexandria (with many christian students) and not in the Academy of Athens. Thats because women were not allowed to, they had no rights.

Actually America has always been in the double digits for church going in every poll I have run across. Their is much more to America than the major cites.

 

[SeventhValley]

Yes, I realize those statistics, but truly, I don't think the US is that different from the other countries you mentioned with minimalism. I just question what is really considered "religious" means. I mean, are the majority of Americans truly that involved in their Christian beliefs? I suppose there is a good deal that are, but aren't there so many that just are not? How do we describe or define religious? For instance, people who attend church on Sundays...are they considered "religious?" How about those who don't attend each Sunday but are constantly in the soup kitchens and doing charitable things? What about those who only attend church on Sundays but do nothing else during the week to display they are Christian? How about those who attend church two or three times a week regularly, but don't display Christian love. I mean, really, how many of us are truly Christian? Sometimes I don't feel I am. But maybe I'm getting too introspective and going off on some tangent that really makes no sense to this convo.

 

[SeventhValley]

What has happened to God in the western nations is very similar to what happened in Soviet Russia, though it is less forced and overt. The spirit of the age is secular, atheistic or agnostic, hedonistic and materialistic, even for many who call themselves religious believers. The dominant worldview is what one might call "worldliness." The very concept that underpins the truly spiritual life, that of self-denial, is laughed at now. Those who call themselves "spiritual but not religious" are, I believe, often the least spiritual of people, because they bow to none but themselves. Yet there is always that nagging call within people's heart that there is more than that -- thus the search for new forms such as environmentalism, statism (big-brotherism), neo-paganism, etc.

When considering the spirit of the age, I am sometimes reminded of this wonderful story about Elder Cleopa called The Monk and the Fools
http://sgpm.goarch.org/Monastery/?p=40

I thought Eastern Orthodoxy requires man to take care of the environment.

"The environmental initiatives of the Ecumenical Patriarchate date back to the mid-1980s with the third session of the Pre-Synodal Pan-Orthodox Conference held in Chambésy (1986). Representatives at this meeting expressed concern for the abuse of the natural environment, especially in affluent western societies. The emphasis was on leaving a better world for future generations. Several Inter-Orthodox meetings followed on the subject of ‘Justice, Peace, and the Integrity of Creation’ and attended by Orthodox representatives."-http://www.patriarchate.org/patriarch/the-green-patriach

 

[buzuxi02]

Actually America has always been in the double digits for church going in every poll I have run across. Their is much more to America than the major cites.

Every poll I have come across says the same. Usually over the 30% mark. Of course this is impossible. I don't know of any sizeable community in the United States where church attendance in a community dwarfs the student body of the entire school district of said community. In fact I think more people show up for the high school football game in many smaller towns than in all their houses of worship combined.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I thought Eastern Orthodoxy requires man to take care of the environment.

"The environmental initiatives of the Ecumenical Patriarchate date back to the mid-1980s with the third session of the Pre-Synodal Pan-Orthodox Conference held in Chambésy (1986). Representatives at this meeting expressed concern for the abuse of the natural environment, especially in affluent western societies. The emphasis was on leaving a better world for future generations. Several Inter-Orthodox meetings followed on the subject of ‘Justice, Peace, and the Integrity of Creation’ and attended by Orthodox representatives."-http://www.patriarchate.org/patriarch/the-green-patriach

I think he is referring to the radical ones, who are willing to blow up buildings and kill people to protect the environment. not the ones that push for a green agenda or whatever.

 

[27B6]

...

 

[Adaephon]

The Bible speaks that in the end times that we will search for Him and will not find Him. It is happening with vengance - taking God out of schools, out of public places, out of laws. Over and Over one atheist complains and they win the battle.

It certainly will be hard to find god if people irrationally look for Him in places like the schools, courtrooms and legal codes of a secular nation instead of, oh I don't know, the Church.

 

[Macarius]

Every poll I have come across says the same. Usually over the 30% mark. Of course this is impossible. I don't know of any sizeable community in the United States where church attendance in a community dwarfs the student body of the entire school district of said community. In fact I think more people show up for the high school football game in many smaller towns than in all their houses of worship combined.

Colorado Springs comes to mind as a place where church attendance may hit well over that 30% mark. Not a small population center, either.

Just one example.

 

[SeventhValley]

Anyways as was pointed out church attendance is not the best indicator of religiosity anyways.

 

[Adaephon]

Anyways as was pointed out church attendance is not the best indicator of religiosity anyways.

Actually, church attendance isn't a measure of religiosity at all in research. Attendance is its own thing while religiosity is essentially a measure of doctrinal compliance and how important your religion's beliefs are to you.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I believe this country will be a mostly atheistic country in the next few decades. Sign of the times. How things are going. I also believe the U.S. will and is declining because of its loss of integrity and morality through belief in God and living as a person who believes and follows Him. The U.S. is just another "Roman Empire," that will crash and burn like so many other countries that had their time in the sun...that rose and then fell

Perhaps it's just me - but I thought the height of an atheistic country was the U.S.S.R and what they sought to do to believers, be it those in the Russian Orthodox Church or other churches). For the entire revolution against the Czar, to my knowledge, was based predominately on blaming God for their situation - although they didn't succedd in eradicating things since the Lord reigns...and the remant of believers will always find ways of making the truth known in ways that subvert a nation from eradicating Christianity from its midst (more discussed in "Hidden & Triumphant: The Underground Struggle to Save Russian Iconography ).

With the U.S, it does seem we're living in a Post-Christian society where Christianity is not the dominant influence - and that can be beneficial to believers since it causes those serving Christ to shine brighter when the darkness is bigger.....and it does seem Christianity always seemed to thrive on the margins.

Essentially, many are fearful of becoming minorities----feeling as if believers disagreeing with it will lose more power/influence while those disagreeing with Christ will become MORE powerful. But history doesn't seem to support that. I'm reminded of Jim Wallis' thoughts about post-Christendom (A Christian Mistake - Jim Wallis | God's Politics Blog | Sojourners ), which for the most part I agree with:

"Personally, I am not offended or alarmed by the notion of a post-Christian America. Christianity was originally and, in my view, always meant to be a minority faith with a counter-cultural stance, as opposed to the dominant cultural and political force….. Martin Luther King Jr. did not get the Civil Rights Act passed because he had the most Bible verses on his side but because he entered into the public square with compelling arguments, vision, and policy that ultimately won the day. Those faith-inspired movements are disciplined by democracy, meaning they don’t expect to win just because they are “Christian.” They have to win the debates about what is best for the common good by convincing their fellow citizens. And that is best done by shaping the values narrative, as opposed to converting everyone to their particular brand of religion.”

______________________________________________________________________________-​

Living in a Post-Christian society can have negatives - and yet there are also strong benefits as well. There is a lack of dominance developing by the traditional parties like the Christian RIght and readjustment of how to interact with ideas.

In many ways, it seems similar to what happened with believers in the Early Church when they became a majority over time and yet had to still find ways of working with the culture/other Non-Christian views - even though the West differed sharply from the East in what developed afterward ( #23 ).

Not being a CHristian-dominanted country seems to open the door for more of what you noted in your thread entitled The coming evangelical collapse. For you DEFINATELY will not see people saying all things "Israel" should be supported on the basis of the Bible like the Evangelical Right has often repeated....to the detriment of Palestinians/Jews alike who suffer because of needless violence and a lack of being held accountable for their actions because of how Christian Zionism allows things to be promoted. As ironic as it sounds, it does seem that others not bound by the Biblical interpretation of Israel have often been more sensible in how to go about it. And it does seem that the Election 2012 marks the End of Evangelical Dominance in Politics

If Christians happened to be on the margins again where their views were not the main ones in dominance, would that somehow mean that the Lord lost control? Would that somehow mean that what the Bible defines morality on is no longer true? Of course not. Christ did not have the mindset that those in the world of non-believers destroyed the truth of God’s instructions simply because they happened to have freedom to do their lifestyles as they please….nor did he reject relationship with those who were enemies of the Gospel.

Sadly, it does seem that secular humanism is a dominant force and something that's seeking to dominate in many ways - although where we're at is tolerance being the new religion, IMHO. And a view of "tolerance" that's intolerant toward Christianity because of its traditional stance that it is supreme and the best out of all other roads...the way to the Lord. It makes no sense as to why others demand Christians to be tolerant of other religions/beliefs - all of it based on moral relativism/the belief that there are no absolutes - and yet they are aggressive in making absolute statements and new religion to proclaim itself as the only way to salvation.

Many have often noted that an even greater threat than anything else is Transhumanism (more here and here) - based in Secular Humanism, with the former on the rise and growing in control of much in the world---from human genetic enhancements/claiming to improve the human condition and doing a lot of messing with things/trying to get patents on biological elements (be it with Monsanto in its work with food or others working with gene therapy/finding ways to alter humanity in its evolution, regulation on human repopulation, eugenic population control, etc). In many ways, we're moving towards an alternative humanity: transhuman existence. This is based more on the technological than the biological. Scientific advances are enabling what once was purely science-fiction to become reality (take cybernetic limbs for example). We are spending increasingly more time interacting with computers than directly with other humans. How then will our ethics and laws alter to cope with these kinds of changes, and what impact will it have on our humanity?

Many have been discussing the ways that a lot of the people working with trying to get patents on human genes are Transhumanist on differing levels......and that's one reason why it's so scarey.


Militant Atheism is what often tends to come about from those venues....as well as social darwinism amongst other things (similar to the Eugenics programs hailed by Hitler in the Holocaust, alongside Margret Sanger in her plans for minorities in America with the Negro Project...and of course, the ways that Stalinism arose once Germany was defeated)....although I will say it's interesting seeing the ways that Hitler himself interacted with people from Radical Islam (a real threat)---for he worked with others who were leaders in radical Islam such as the Grand Mufti ( the highest official of religious law in a Sunni or Ibadi Muslim country), Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin el-Husseini (more shared here, here, here and here )---more shared at Haj Amin Al-Husseini - Nazi collaborator and model for today's Islamists - Militant Islam Monitor andHitler's Mufti | Catholic Answers.

So with the direction the U.S is going toward, although there will always be others who are Non-Christian and against acts of violence/destruction, there will always be potential for both the extremists in the Religions/Secular realm to come together and do much damage to others in the name of the Lord....just as it has occurred before. There may be a greater time of Christians working together with people in differing religions/groups - but that, in and of itself, doesn't mean that there'll not be others with the intention of establishing Christianity as being non-existant - for even the Herodians and the Pharisees/Saducees (all of whom had serious hate/dislike for each other) came together to be against Christ. So why would it not be possible for other groups - be it atheists or other religous groups - to come together and do the same?

 

[Gxg (G²)]

personally, I don't think we'll become atheist. I think we will become more and more pagan. Christ will just be another god along side Hindu idols, a copy of the Koran, a rosary, an icon of St Michael, some Wiccan ritual stuff, etc. it's the syncrist, New Agey stuff that I think will take over.

I agree personally that we are starting to see a shift toward what happened in the time after the Roman Empire when Paganism became dominant. And with the way our country was founded, I was always under the impression that God was never really the foundation to begin with. ....and thus, with where we're at now, it doesn't seem that we've really left him as much as it is the case that we're seeing the full fruits of what was laid down in foundation from the very beginning of our nation's history. Be it with "Manifest Destiny" theology or the evils of FreeMasonry (more discussed in #19 #83 #24 #75 and #111 ), it always seemed to me that the U.S was always in support of Imperialistic/Patriotic Christianity (like the British Empire before it when it ruled the entire world - condoning slavery/colonialism - in the name of CHrist)...more so than Biblical Christianity.

The Hidden Faith Of The Founding Fathers

 

[Gxg (G²)]

In fact, I believe this country will be a mostly atheistic country in the next few decades. Sign of the times. How things are going. I also believe the U.S. will and is declining because of its loss of integrity and morality through belief in God and living as a person who believes and follows Him. The U.S. is just another "Roman Empire," that will crash and burn like so many other countries that had their time in the sun...that rose and then fell.
.

It is ironic what you noted since the U.S - in its aggressive promotion of Secular Humanism - sets the stage for more decline. And ironic whenever those in Secular Humanism say they are not religious even though the U.S has already declared Secular Humanism to be a religion.

Perhaps the Lord hasn't destroyed us yet because of others in the nation who are seeking him and praying. And he is wanting more to come to Him. WHo knows..

 

[Gxg (G²)]

It's called the "New Religion".... all-inclusive, mixed up all together all the religions. That's explained in the book on the end times called Ultimate Things that I've read 4-5 times. Also, my bishop told us kinda the same thing you did, but said most will eventually become their own gods.

Gonna have to get that book you noted from the Library as it seems very timely.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Well, that's true. It's called the "New Religion".... all-inclusive, mixed up all together all the religions. That's explained in the book on the end times called Ultimate Things that I've read 4-5 times. Also, my bishop told us kinda the same thing you did, but said most will eventually become their own gods. That's quite evident, don't you think?

yep, it is the religion of the Antichrist, according to Fr Seraphim Rose's Orthodox Worldview.

and Met Isaiah is on point when it comes to that stuff.