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Cliven Bundy

Discussion in 'Christian Current Affairs' started by Psalm 91, Apr 13, 2014.

  1. Psalm 91

    Psalm 91 Newbie

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    This isn't exactly a Christian story, but in a way it is. One man stood up to the government and patriots from all over the west joined him in standing by his values and his rights. It seems that our government has forgotten that they work for us and that this land belongs to us. We have a president who believes the land is owned by the government and he is doing his best to crowd everyone into cities in order to protect "government property". He cares more about globalism and ecology than about the people he is supposed to lead. He sees nothing wrong with selling "our land" to foreign governments, even communist governments due to his strong belief in globalism. They stole many of Cliven Bundy's cattle, but on Saturday they retreated and the mainstream news media, of which I now consider Fox News to be a part of, stated that the reason was because there were so many people who were armed they feared someone could get hurt. Hogwash. They feared the masses who were gathered and will come back another day. Harry Reid and his son, Rory, stand to make a lot of money on a deal to sell the land to the Chinese to build a solar power plant. So they are trying to kick Americans under the bus. I guess we don't have enough rich Americans to buy the land, if we agree to sell it. I know many of you will disagree with me, but I hope some of you will write to your congressmen. I did, knowing that I will be on the list of dissidents, but movies have been made about brave Americans who stood by their values. We don't have a lot of brave Americans anymore (except those in the military) so I wanted to support this man in any way I could. I hope you will too.
     
  2. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor

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    Well, he stood up for "his values" and his "perceived rights". He is no better than any of the other Nevada ranchers who obey the law when grazing on Federal lands.

    That is right, it belongs to us, the people, and not to individuals such as Mr. Bundy. He knows that there is a charge for grazing cattle on those lands.

    It is. The land belongs to the Federal government. We are a government of the people for the people and by the people. We are the government.

    :doh:Get real.


    That doesn't make much sense. It is his care for people that drives his desire to protect the ecology.

    Where did he sell "our land" to foreign government?

    You cannot steal cattle which are illegally on your land. Confiscate is the word.

    Since this is our land and not solely Mr Bundy's, I want him to pay the same thing which all other ranchers pay to graze on our land.
     
  3. Psalm 91

    Psalm 91 Newbie

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    It's not federal land. It's state land. If there is a charge for cows grazing and if it's so important, why don't they put up a boundary to keep animals off? This is about the sale of this property being made to Chinese businessmen who want to build a solar energy plant. As I've said before, don't we have enough rich people to buy the land who are citizens of this country?

    We are NOT the government in this present day. We have been taken over by a bunch of corrupt people. They call themselves Democrats and Republicans but they are all the same and we naively believe that they have our best interests at heart. Baloney. They are just career politicians who no longer have consciences.

    How do you know that the ranchers who pay this unfair charge agree with it? I'd bet my rent that they all agree with Cliven Bundy and that is why they showed up to support him.

    So...if you believe that the land doesn't belong to Mr. Bundy, how do you figure it belongs to the federal government? You said, erroneously, that we are the government, so in your own words you'd be saying the land belongs to Mr. Bundy. However, to call us the federal government is to accuse us of voting for bills we've never read and signing executive orders whenever we feel like Congress won't pass them.

    I won't respond to your "get real" comment because you never do any research to find anything that is wrong about the president. You just don't know what you are talking about when it comes to the global agenda.

    So...the president's care for the people is what drives his desire to protect the ecology. :D You should be embarrassed that you said that, Yarddog. You couldn't be further from the truth.

    They stole the cattle and some are dead. Why do you always cheer for the government stepping on the little guy? You are a little guy like most of us and one day they'll do something to step on you. They've already stepped on those who had their own chosen healthcare plans ripped away. They've stepped on people with jobs in the oil drilling business, only to allow foreign countries to drill here. Americans can't. They lied about being able to keep your doctors and your healthcare plans. They lied about Cliven Bundy's situation saying it was all about his cows grazing on a land preserved for a desert tortoise, when in reality they want to close the deal on the solar energy plant with the Chinese. The Chinese are taking over this country without firing a shot. They already own us. The government has lied about bringing Russians into our country for joint military training with the American military, when in actuality, the Russians are here to kill us during an attempt to confiscate guns. The gov't doesn't trust our military to accomplish their agenda. Don't worry, you won't find any articles unless they are denying the accusation or confirming the lie.

    I so admire Cliven Bundy for his courage to stand up to the federal government. I'm sure they will do their best to end his life, just like they did at Waco and at Ruby Ridge. They will come back another day and you will be lied to about what really happened, just like at Waco and Ruby Ridge.

    Here you are, Yarddog, defending a dishonest, bullying government and yet I'm sure you cheer for the hero who stands up for his beliefs in the movies. And don't say the hero is following the law because if that is true, why would he need to stand up for himself? If the laws were fair, we'd have no need to stand up against the government. They set out to turn people against the ranchers and it backfired because stealing cattle over desert grass is petty and the BLM was beginning to look like bullies. So they had to pull back. But they'll return one day.

    We are spied upon, our privacy no longer exists, the Tea Party groups and Christian groups were picked on by the IRS, Holly Hobby may go down, our job situation is NOT improving, people are getting poorer and businesses are still closing down, and if we don't have enough money for Obamacare, Mr. Obamacare himself has the solution: give up your cable tv and cell phones, which shows how much he "cares" about the American people.

    The fact is this: This land no longer belongs to the American people nor Mr. Bundy. It belongs to the globe. And it is way too late to get it back. In my heart as an American, this country belongs to the people, but it's not just cattle that have been stolen. And it's been planned for many, many years. And most Americans don't even realize it. It is sickening. But I am proud of Mr. Bundy's fight and his neighbor's fight and the militia's fight. It has renewed my pride in being an American.

    The so-called law doesn't matter unless you can PROVE to me that every Congressman who voted for the law read every word of it before voting for it.
     
  4. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor

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    No, it's the the Federal government's land. Bundy just refuses to recognize that it belongs to the Federal government.

    There are reasons why they want animals grazing and reasons why they need to regulate grazing.
    Grazing

    There are about 45 million acres of public rangelands in Nevada. These rangelands are divided into 745 grazing allotments. There are 550 operators, or permittees, with a total of 635 permits to graze livestock.
    Public land grazing is managed to achieve the fundamentals of rangeland health as indicated by soil and site stability, hydrologic function and biotic integrity.
    Among the challenges to successfully manage public land grazing are:

    Grazing/Allotment Information websites:

    • BLM Rangeland Administration System (RAS) - www.blm.gov/ras/
      The RAS provides grazing administrative support and management reports for the BLM and the public. Click 'Run Reports' on the left column.
    • NILS GeoCommunicator - www.geocommunicator.gov/
      To view the allotments and pasture in an interactive mapping environment.


    Incorrect. It has nothing to do with the plant. Bundy lives and grazes his cattle in the north east district of Clark Co. while the plant would be built in the southern most section of the county. They are several hundred miles apart.

    No. The people of Laughlin, Nevada are happy to see a plant coming to town which will bring needed jobs.
    We are just as much the government today as when the country was founded. Of course, if you don't vote or participate, that is your choice.

    I'm not going to argue with that but when money buys politicians, the rich do the running.

    Because they pay it. If they wanted to graze their cattle on private land they would have to pay for that as well.
    Agreeing with him does not make them right. There is a process which we have access to if we feel we have a legal precedence to land. He should have taken it to court back in the early 90's.
    Because they hold the deed to the land.

    Nothing erroneous about it. Didn't you take history and government back in school? The land doesn't belong to Mr. Bundy anymore than it belongs to me. The land belongs to the American people.

    The people vote for each and every member in Congress so we are responsible for each bill.
    Sure I do and if you have read my posts you have also seen my criticism of him. Your asinine statement "he is doing his best to crowd everyone into cities in order to protect "government property" is deserving of a "get real' and a double :doh::doh:. ;)

    And apparently neither do you.

    The government didn't steal anything, Bundy did. He stole the grazing lands with their valuable forage. He owes us over 1 million dollars.

    You certainly don't read my posts do you or you wouldn't throw out such ludicrous statements. I have been a proponent for the little man against the rich.

    Standing against the government does not make a person right in their stand. There are also legal avenues which are put in place that Bundy ignored because he claims the right to something which he has no right to.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
  5. ChristsSoldier115

    ChristsSoldier115 Mabaho na Kuya

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    I'm still trying to figure out all the trype surrounding this event. I have a lot of friends who are almost on the same mindset of Psalm 91 in regards to the political. I am still trying to sift and decipher their "truth". I think once i figure it all out I'll post a response on facebook to all the news about him.

    They see Clive Bundy as some sort of patriot standing up to the man. He has had his cattle grazing on that land long before BLM existed. I guess because his family has been using the land since 1870 he should be ok in letting his cattle graze since the "guvanment" came in swooped up the land from under this poor hard working americans nose that his family has been using for over 100 years.

    I think Clive Bundy is feeding off the anti-government anti Obama types to let him break the law. It clearly says what he cannot do. I am sure they told him long in advance to stop and decided to bring the hammer down. His supporters were attempting some sort of fake revolution. I wish these "revolutionary" types would just use their energy to educate other people about the system we already freaking have in place to change all of this, but they won't because the only part of the constitution they care about is the 2nd amendment.
     
  6. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis De profundis clamavi et exaudisti me.

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    I peed in public once. I really had to go, so upon the side of a building I went. By the law of nature that property has been marked and belongs to me. And I claim all mating rights in the vicinity.

    *beats chest and climbs up a tree*

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  7. Psalm 91

    Psalm 91 Newbie

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    WRONG, wrong and wrong. When you continue to simply visit the dot gov's and the mainstream articles, you will always be lied to. And until you realize that, debating you is ludicrous, IMO.

    The land is state land. The feds have stolen land all over the west, especially. That began a long time ago.

    I am NOT responsible for the politicians in DC. I do not agree with my congressmen, since um, Terry Schiavo. So I don't vote in state elections anymore because it is a waste of time in a blue state. I vote in presidential elections, except since this last charade, I'm retiring from voting because they are fixed. It is impossible to have whole counties with not one vote for one of the two candidates. Elections are corrupt and the people who allow the corruption, which would be us, are no better. Watch in Illinois who becomes the next governor of a blue state: the Republican. And why? Because he's friends with and supported by Rahm Emanuel. It's all crooked. We have no say and our votes mean nothing.

    Valuable forage, please give me a break. They've sold the land, for goodness' sake. And if the people are in support of the plant then they are dupes too. That's how tyrants get what they want: starve the people into submission. They'll do anything for a job.

    You are in for a huge surprise one of these days and if you think being gullible and trusting a corrupt government and their laws which were read by no one, except the person who wrote them, is pleasing to God, you're wrong. He has warned us that Antichrist is coming. He will be a leader too and yet we are warned that if we obey him and take the mark, we will go to hell for eternity. So if we will be condemned for following the rules of Antichrist, why would God reward us for obeying corrupt leaders now?

    Perhaps you don't remember what the government did to the farmers in the
    '80's? Yes we've always had poverty in the world and hardships in life. "But to whom much is given, much is expected." This country has always been blessed by God but that will soon end because our government has become corrupt and evil and does not allow the people the freedom we were promised. God has already poked them in the eye with the rolling out of Obamacare. But that is nothing compared to what will happen for all of the abortions, all of the CIA activities lately, all of the deaths in the needless Middle East wars, all of the times we've avoided helping our allies while aiding our enemies, all of the lies our leaders have told us over the years, especially since 9/11, the deceit by the federal reserve along with our government and the removal of our freedoms. I'm sure there is much more this country is guilty of including the tolerance of the cruelty to black people in the south in the sixties and how could I forget?: the removal of God from the marketplace! I know that no one is going to read this long post so I'll stop, except to say, if Obama doesn't stop working against Israel, I think the shoe (or bomb) will drop on us from somewhere. Come quickly, Lord Jesus!
     
  8. Psalm 91

    Psalm 91 Newbie

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    It sounds like you've already chosen sides. I agree with your friends.

    Have you seen Valkyrie? I particularly liked the end when they showed what is written on a monument in Berlin. I can't remember what it said because my memory is poor, except that the men who tried to remove Hitler from power "would suffer no shame...". I wonder what most of the people here would say to that since it seems that no one is even admitting that regardless of the law, it's a matter of right vs. wrong. I'm sure it was illegal to protect Jews from the gestapo, but many brave people did and some were placed in concentration camps and some executed. Not all laws are right.
     
  9. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor

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    So you are not worried about seeing facts. You just want to live in some fictitious world that right wing pundits have created for you.
    You can say that as many times as you want but it will never be correct.
    Well, they may have stolen it from the American Indians but they didn't steal it from Nevada. The land belonged to the Federal government and the state of Nevada was given some of the land when it became a state. The state lists the parcels of land which belongs to it on its web site. Most of all non-privately owned land in Nevada belongs to the Federal government. Facts my dear.
    You mean you didn't vote? Well, you are just as responsible for the bad bills as those who voted for the politicians.

    Not voting to oust bad politicians makes you just as responsible as those voting for them.

    Then you forfeit your right to complain. Accept that you are just as much as fault as voters.
    All of those right wing claims were debunked as lies.


    Keep your head together here and don't mix things up. They haven't sold any of the land which Bundy grazed his cattle on. They want to build a solar power plant several hundreds miles south of where Bundy lives.

    Why? They have the right to good jobs don't they? Who cares if it is owned by the Chinese?
    There you go again.:doh: Get real here and learn some facts.
    And do you think believing right wing pundits lies is pleasing to God? You make them your gods by worshiping everything which comes out of their mouths.

    Then stop believing those corrupt right wing news media pundits.
     
  10. Almighty's humble servant

    Almighty's humble servant Fisher of men

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    Interesting debate.

    If you free range cattle, pay the permit fees and follow the rules. Make your millions and continue your family legacy.

    But the fed, doesnt need to be pointing automatic weapons at old cowboys because their being disagreeable.

    Have the battle in a courthouse, not with machine guns on camera. That's only going to instigate 2nd amendment'ers like myself into taking up with the cheapskates who wont pay their bills.:doh:
     
  11. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor

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    I certainly agree but they have had their battles in court and that has been decided. He owes the government over a million dollars in fees. Sadly, I blame the government for allowing this to continue for so long. They've known for 20 years that Bundy hasn't been paying to graze on the land. They should have started confiscating the cattle that were on the land illegally in 1995, not 2014.:doh:
    I have no doubt that the government has been lax in their handling of this matter. Thankfully they backed off before some idiot pulled the trigger and people got killed.
     
  12. Psalm 91

    Psalm 91 Newbie

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    I'm not arguing with you, Yarddog. If I wanted to hear from the left wing pundits or read the dot govs, I could turn on the tv. I'll just say it's sad to hear an American say, "Who cares if it's owned by the Chinese?" You see, it's not the plant that matters, it's the land. Foreigners are being welcomed to buy our land because we owe so much money and our president is a globalist. He doesn't believe in our Constitution or our Republic. But go live in your dream world which hasn't existed since the '50's. We've had one president who cared about America and it's people, in our lifetimes, and he was murdered by the CIA. No president has thought for himself since then, except maybe Reagan, and after they programmed a kid from a famous family to give him a warning, he backed off.

    One more thing: Please don't insult my intelligence by saying that I worship everything which comes out of the right wing pundits mouths. You see, they are no different from the left wing pundits. They are performing on Fox for the conservatives and the left wing pundits are performing for people like you. I assume that CNN does the same and the five minutes I watched MSNBC, there weren't any right wing pundits. They are all controlled by Obama and he pretends to get angry with Fox at times. It's all a performance for the sheep. I keep Fox on only for background noise because I live alone.
     
  13. ChristsSoldier115

    ChristsSoldier115 Mabaho na Kuya

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  14. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor

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    WOW, thanks for such an informative article. Full of facts which show that Bundy and all of the conservative pundits who helped his cause are wrong.

    Imagine that.
     
  15. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor

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    What is the difference between the Chinese owning land in the US or the British? If they want to build a factory to produce solar panels they are perfectly within their rights to do so.

    The conservatives sure loved their money financing the Iraq War. Now that was appalling.

    Reagan was an idiot.
    Please don't insult your own intelligence by saying I have anything to do with left wing pundits. Most of them are not much better than Glenn Beck, Limbaugh, Alex Jones, etc...

    Be like me, refuse to watch national news. I watch my local news stations only.
     
  16. Psalm 91

    Psalm 91 Newbie

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    I just love that color of "greeeeen". What else would the tree-huggers say?

    I don't care about the laws that elected officials pass without reading and without being in touch in any way with ordinary citizens. What gives corrupt politicians the right to keep adding laws on top of laws that affect the people. These so-called "lawmakers" never consult their constituents about a vote. I've seen a few do it and when their constituents disagree with them they go ahead and vote the way they want. There are no more honest politicians because they don't have to be, as long as they keep dividing us over freedoms, land, color of skin, sexual preference and, oops! I was going to say "choice", but I'll call it what it is: murder of the unborn, oil drilling, minimum wage, unions, wars and rumors of war, etc.

    Here is another opinion:
    Sheriff Mack, CSPOA, Oathkeepers, State Legislators & America Stands with Cliven Bundy | Dave Hodges – The Common Sense Show

    I like the picture of the confrontation next to the picture of illegal aliens crossing the border. And in the comments section, one guy brought up Hannity and O'Reilly and Fox News. They are patriots except when their boss tells them which side to take and apparently they prefer not to make a choice publicly. Hypocrites. At least the liberals are consistent, even if they are consistently wrong. I read a few articles which said that George Soros was celebrating how liberal Fox has become. I guess they go which way the money comes in.
     
  17. Psalm 91

    Psalm 91 Newbie

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    They have no right to buy up American land. It belongs to the American people.

    This issue and the Iraq War are apples and oranges.

    I disagree with you about Reagan. He made mistakes as all presidents do but IMO, he was a very wise man. He enabled this country's economy to grow for 18yrs through lowering taxes.

    I agree with your comparison of some pundits. They just argue and there is no difference between political parties, in reality. I have favorites, though, from the internet and internet radio and they are all Christians. Most are authors of books on eschatology and/or specifically the Tribulation, Economics, the Nephilim, coming Christian persecution and the Illuminati's power and agendas.

    I told you I keep it on for background noise and I pay attention when the weather comes on. But the news is all cherry-picked by producers and network bosses and and is usually left-leaning. I don't listen to secular radio talk shows but I do listen to K-Love which has all day Contemporary Christian music. I love that station. I hope my neighbors can't see me dancing and praising the Lord. I try not to get carried away. :D
     
  18. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor

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    They have just as much right to purchase land as any other person has.
    Chinese apples and Chinese oranges? Chinese money is Chinese money which is what both deals were based on. Where were the conservatives when the Chinese were financing the wars?
    Reagan lowered taxes on the upper 1% but taxes rose on those making less than $50,000. The national debt more than doubled as he borrowed money to pay for his economic decisions. The U.S. will have to pay over $100 billion this year on the interest to the money that he borrowed.

    The poverty level had dropped from the mid 60's until the 80's when, because of Reaganomics that changed and the poverty level rose throughout the Reagan-Bush years. It again began to drop during the Clinton administration but rose again during the 2nd Bush years.

    The same time line is also seen in the real income levels. Reagan's "supply side economics" was horrible for the US.

    I don't listen to the radio when I am in the car driving. I find that time is good for prayer. Peace and quiet with no one around me to distract me.
     
  19. ChristsSoldier115

    ChristsSoldier115 Mabaho na Kuya

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    Nevada state constitution, which predates Clive Bundy's family in Nevada by 16 years:
    His family never legally owned the land. they just grazed on it and his family agreed to all of this living there. It is simple cut and dry. The government wins. The BLM came in and enforced the land they owned. Maybe Nevada shouldn't have been a bunch of cheapskates and and lazy turds and took care of their own land, but instead they forked it over to the feds to do their work for them. Now the feds want to use the land they own the way they see fit.

    Don't blame the BLM for doing their job. I say blame the state of Nevada for crapping over its own citizens.
     
  20. revanneosl

    revanneosl Mystically signifying since 1985

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    Bundy is basically a welfare cheat who grazes his cows on foodstamps
     
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