Cleveland officer not guilty over deaths of two people shot at 137 times by police

brinny

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places
Supporter
Mar 23, 2004
248,783
114,476
✟1,339,553.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution

SuperCloud

Newbie
Sep 8, 2014
2,292
228
✟3,725.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
If the dead were Scot Walker supporters fleeing at high speeds from IRS agents in hot pursuit... the Republicans would be in an uproar over government forces intimidating and enslaving the free people of the USA. LOL.

The IRS exists to protect Americans from the criminals of the world. Like Enron higher ups. Every day IRS agents get up in the morning to risk their lives protecting Americans from predators. Like street cops.

Whether you are a Scot Walker supporter or a black dude cheering on Obama... "Don't break the laws and you have nothing to worry about."

Okay, I for one understand that cops often are involved in instances where they need to draw their service weapon and use it. The cop that shot me multiple times was tactically justified in shooting me (though, from a medical stand point I think once would have been sufficient). But in this Cleveland case of standing on the hood of a car and shooting 49 times? Come on. That is just radical. If not straight up gangsta. Gangsta rap. La Cosa Nostra. Chicago mafia. If he was using his semi-automatic pistol then he def had to reload. Drop the clip and reload. Which even tactically--not from a combat soldier, but law enforcement angle--would mean the agent should be reassessing the threat level. Are rounds being fired back at him? Are the suspects crawling towards a hand grenade? Are the suspects even on foot running?

Of course the police in the America are the only ones that demand the human body and human person defy both the laws a physics (i.e. if I kick your head neither your head nor your body better move but remain absolutely still, otherwise I will continue kicking you until your body becomes completely still) and the individual's own nervous system.
 
Upvote 0

NightHawkeye

Work-in-progress
Supporter
Jul 5, 2010
45,814
10,318
✟781,037.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
I read this from 2012: Police Shoot 137 Times Into Car After Chase, Killing Unarmed Couple | Daily Beast

After leading police on a 25-minute chase through city streets, Russell found himself surrounded in a dead-end in East Cleveland. Police have said that they opened fire when Russell tried to run one of them over.
...
The incident is further complicated by the fact that the victims were both black, and all but one of the officers were white. But Russell also had a history of theft offenses, and on two previous occasions he had fled from police.

Regardless of what happened on that dead-end street, 137 shots is a lot of shots ...

It seems worth noting that just because this couple didn't possess firearms does not mean they were unarmed. The vehicle being driven was apparently being used as a deadly weapon. Personally, I'll go with the jury's findings. There is a reason this nation has jury trials.

It seems clear enough that when shots were fired, police had every intention of killing these two.
 
Upvote 0

brinny

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places
Supporter
Mar 23, 2004
248,783
114,476
✟1,339,553.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
If i'm not mistaken, the car was not moving when the officer jumped on the hood of the car and shot multiple times into the windshield at the unarmed man and woman.

Thank you kindly.

Brelo’s trial resulted froma police chase on 29 November 2012, when Malissa Williams and Timothy Russell led police on a 20-minute pursuit that involved 60 police cars and about 100 police officers. The chase began when their car, a 1979 Chevy Malibu, apparently backfired as it passed police headquarters in downtown Cleveland. The noise was mistaken for a gunshot.

Police fired 137 shots at Malissa Williams, left, and Timothy Russell Photograph: Internet
Williams, 30, and Russell, 43, were boxed into a middle-school parking lot when 13 Cleveland police officers fired 137 shots into the car in an 18-second volley. Brelo fired the most – 49 shots total – including 15 at the end of the barrage while standing on the hood of the car, aiming at the pair through the windshield. Even though a dozen other officers fired 88 bullets into the car, only Brelo was charged.
 
Upvote 0

HannahT

Newbie
Supporter
Apr 9, 2013
6,027
2,422
✟458,831.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The chase began when their car, a 1979 Chevy Malibu, apparently backfired as it passed police headquarters in downtown Cleveland. The noise was mistaken for a gunshot.

I can understand people thinking it was a gunshot, but WHY in heaven's name would there be a chase? We had this happen here - where a backfire sounded like a gunshot - and the police car followed them with lights on - sirens, etc. They pulled over, and it was settled. Yes, the police did approach the vehicle with caution...and yes it also a minorities in the car.

There has to be more to the story. Rational people don't take off and have the police chase them over something like this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NightHawkeye
Upvote 0

NightHawkeye

Work-in-progress
Supporter
Jul 5, 2010
45,814
10,318
✟781,037.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
There has to be more to the story. Rational people don't take off and have the police chase them over something like this.
Indeed there is ... here's one piece I stumbled across.

Ohio Bureau of Criminal Identification & Investigation | Interview of Trina Williams, cousin to Malissa Williams

Williams stated Malissa was a drug user and was addicted to "crack and weed". Williams stated Malissa obtained her drugs from "random people". Williams stated she worried a lot about Malissa because of her drug habit.

Williams stated Malissa didn't know what she was saying most of the time. Williams stated she sat and talked with Malissa for hours at the shelter. Williams stated Malissa would "ramble on about things:. Williams stated Malissa would talk about "killing Natash". Williams told her Natash was Satan. Williams stated she would say Satan caused her problems.

Williams stated Malissa didn't know how to express herself. Williams stated when Malissa became angry she would threaten people by telling them she was going to kill them. Williams stated Malissa talked "violent" all of the time. Williams stated Malissa didn't really mean she was going to kill anyone, but it was the only way Malissa knew how to express her anger. Williams stated Malissa was actually a very kind person. Williams stated she was aware Malissa threatened the police and told them she was going to kill them.

Williams stated whe believes Malissa met Timothy Russell at "Cosgrove" where the homeless received their meals. Williams stated Malissa never spoke of Russell. Williams stated Malissa would never talk about her life at the shelter to the family because Malissa's family would only offer "tough love".

As tragic as the shooting may have been, it was the ending to one life which had already gone terribly wrong ... that according to someone who loved her and tried desperately to help her. Elsewhere in the interview her cousin described Malissa as "mental", presumably because of drugs, but that she hadn't always been that way.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

SuperCloud

Newbie
Sep 8, 2014
2,292
228
✟3,725.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
As tragic as the shooting may have been, it was the ending to one life which had already gone terribly wrong ... that according to someone who loved her and tried desperately to help her. Elsewhere in the interview her cousin described Malissa as "mental", presumably because of drugs, but that she hadn't always been that way.

Hmm... I'm always a bit skeptical of people that speak with police, either by how the person speaking attempts to characterize things, or by how the cop writing the report might try to characterize things. I generally think there are probably varying shades of truth in what the person speaking with the cop is saying. That may or may not be the case with this Trina Williams.

People speak--give their testimony--to cops and amazingly they're always a good guy or good gal. Some even saintly. Even the one greatly exaggerating something (guy walks to car in reality, witness talking with cop says the guy was running so fast he nearly smacked into the car) or telling a flat out lie.

Amazing how every person speaking with the cops turns into a "I was concerned for this person" kind of person. Eh... when you kicked your gay cousin out your apartment because she was gay, or you used to drive past her and ignore her at family functions, that's not really being "concerned." Hey, by the way, are you telling this cop how you used write bad checks or that you're currently selling heroin out of your apartment to pregnant women? No? Okay. Cool. Now keep blabbing along to the police about someone other than you.

This Trina sounds like she actually was a good cousin and tried to actually help her cuz out. If she's characterizing things in true and most accurate light. Like say... trying to help her manage her money being an actual commitment she took on for more than one day as opposed to say the one and only time she held her cousin's $100 for her as she ran down the street for 2 hours (afraid she might get robbed) and then took $15 from her cousin's money for cigarettes and beer.
 
Upvote 0

tulc

loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!
May 18, 2002
49,401
18,801
68
✟271,570.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Indeed there is ... here's one piece I stumbled across.

Ohio Bureau of Criminal Identification & Investigation | Interview of Trina Williams, cousin to Malissa Williams

Williams stated Malissa was a drug user and was addicted to "crack and weed". Williams stated Malissa obtained her drugs from "random people". Williams stated she worried a lot about Malissa because of her drug habit.

Williams stated Malissa didn't know what she was saying most of the time. Williams stated she sat and talked with Malissa for hours at the shelter. Williams stated Malissa would "ramble on about things:. Williams stated Malissa would talk about "killing Natash". Williams told her Natash was Satan. Williams stated she would say Satan caused her problems.

Williams stated Malissa didn't know how to express herself. Williams stated when Malissa became angry she would threaten people by telling them she was going to kill them. Williams stated Malissa talked "violent" all of the time. Williams stated Malissa didn't really mean she was going to kill anyone, but it was the only way Malissa knew how to express her anger. Williams stated Malissa was actually a very kind person. Williams stated she was aware Malissa threatened the police and told them she was going to kill them.

Williams stated whe believes Malissa met Timothy Russell at "Cosgrove" where the homeless received their meals. Williams stated Malissa never spoke of Russell. Williams stated Malissa would never talk about her life at the shelter to the family because Malissa's family would only offer "tough love".

As tragic as the shooting may have been, it was the ending to one life which had already gone terribly wrong ... that according to someone who loved her and tried desperately to help her. Elsewhere in the interview her cousin described Malissa as "mental", presumably because of drugs, but that she hadn't always been that way.

Ahhh! As usual we're trotting out the "They brought this on themselves!" defense. I might point out that at no time while being shot 24 times did Malissa appear to have an argument with or threaten any of the police officers involved at the time. :wave:
tulc(suspects her partner while being shot 23 times didn't argue with them either
 
Upvote 0

NightHawkeye

Work-in-progress
Supporter
Jul 5, 2010
45,814
10,318
✟781,037.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
Ahhh! As usual we're trotting out the "They brought this on themselves!" defense. I might point out that at no time while being shot 24 times did Malissa appear to have an argument with or threaten any of the police officers involved at the time. :wave:
tulc(suspects her partner while being shot 23 times didn't argue with them either
Noting that threatening to KILL POLICE is associated with a range of somewhat unpredictable consequences.
 
Upvote 0

Trogdor the Burninator

Senior Veteran
Oct 19, 2004
6,023
2,546
✟228,059.00
Faith
Christian
Forget the fact that the car wasn't moving and let's assume that the criminals tried to run down police as per their version of the story.

The question then becomes - how the hell did a cop think that firing 49 shots in a public area was in any way safe or justified? Furthermore, how did other cops think that adding another 88 shots was in any way safe?

The police seem to have forgotten that they were in a public street, not the Normandy beachhead
 
Upvote 0

SuperCloud

Newbie
Sep 8, 2014
2,292
228
✟3,725.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Hey, Trogdor, off topic for a second--I dig your sig. Found it pretty funny. I'm hazarding a guess that is a dig at the algorithmic process at the Theory of Evolution explaining how complex multicellular organisms (like humans) arose from simpler, less complex life forms, which far back enough arose from a single cell that birthed life on planet earth?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

tulc

loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!
May 18, 2002
49,401
18,801
68
✟271,570.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Noting that threatening to KILL POLICE is associated with a range of somewhat unpredictable consequences.

Were they arguing with the police while being chased? Were they arguing with the police when their car was stopped? Did they threaten the police when he was standing on the hood of their car shooting the last 15 rounds of the 49 he shot at them that night? were the other officers being threatened by the unarmed couple when they shot the other 88 bullets at them? I'm unclear where the "threatening to kill them" plays any part in this story. :scratch:
tulc(wonders when a backfiring car was made a capital crime?) :sorry:
 
Upvote 0

HannahT

Newbie
Supporter
Apr 9, 2013
6,027
2,422
✟458,831.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
wonders when a backfiring car was made a capital crime?) :sorry:

Nope it sure isn't. Again, I wonder why they wanted the chase personally. Again we had this same circumstance where I live, and the police pulled them over. No chase, and it was done.

Taking off like this is irrational, and looks suspicious. Although, I don't know how the chase happened in detail to show they were a threat in some way.
 
Upvote 0

dgiharris

Old Crusty Vet
Jan 9, 2013
5,439
5,222
✟131,531.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
I just can't picture a scenario where two unarmed people in a car are shot at 137 times in public and it is okay?

Similarly, where someone is standing on the car shooting 49 times????

It simply defies logic. In order for this to make sense in my head, I'd have to take off my skull cap, grab my brain, dunk said brain repeatedly into a vat of vodka and rum then take my brain over to a counter covered with 10-lbs of cocaine, roll my brain around until it was coated with a nice layer of white powder, then put my brain back in my skull and reattach my skull cap...

Look, I get it. Police have to enforce the law yada yada yada... but at some point simple common sense has to take over and there is just no way the chain of events that happened here make any sense or are excusable...

Basically, unless police are caught 100% from start to finish on video tape, they can do anything to anyone who has committed a crime or is "suspected" of committing a crime. All they have to do is say they feared for their safety and that is that. Anything that happens after that point is justified.

At what point does it become a simple execution? 10 bullets? 20 bullets? 40 bullets? 60 bullets? 100 bullets?

I mean, why not shoot the car thousand times? I'm being serious? There is very little qualitative difference in excessive force between 100 shoots and 1,000 shots. I mean, it's like hitting a baby 10 times with a sledge hammer vs 100 times with a sledge hammer. No real qualitative difference...

I seriously just don't know about this country sometimes... :(
 
Upvote 0

NightHawkeye

Work-in-progress
Supporter
Jul 5, 2010
45,814
10,318
✟781,037.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
I just can't picture a scenario where two unarmed people in a car are shot at 137 times in public and it is okay?

Similarly, where someone is standing on the car shooting 49 times????

It simply defies logic. In order for this to make sense in my head, I'd have to take off my skull cap, grab my brain, dunk said brain repeatedly into a vat of vodka and rum then take my brain over to a counter covered with 10-lbs of cocaine, roll my brain around until it was coated with a nice layer of white powder, then put my brain back in my skull and reattach my skull cap...

Look, I get it. Police have to enforce the law yada yada yada... but at some point simple common sense has to take over and there is just no way the chain of events that happened here make any sense or are excusable...

Basically, unless police are caught 100% from start to finish on video tape, they can do anything to anyone who has committed a crime or is "suspected" of committing a crime. All they have to do is say they feared for their safety and that is that. Anything that happens after that point is justified.

At what point does it become a simple execution? 10 bullets? 20 bullets? 40 bullets? 60 bullets? 100 bullets?

I mean, why not shoot the car thousand times? I'm being serious? There is very little qualitative difference in excessive force between 100 shoots and 1,000 shots. I mean, it's like hitting a baby 10 times with a sledge hammer vs 100 times with a sledge hammer. No real qualitative difference...

I seriously just don't know about this country sometimes... :(
At some point in a confrontation one presumes that an officer's thinking changes from apprehending to killing the "bad guys", perhaps consciously, perhaps sometimes unconsciously ... and the firing doesn't stop until the target is neutralized. That's the approach used in warfare, too. A sniper frequently uses only one bullet whereas a foot soldier may just keep firing.

Both individuals had rap sheets. The driver had been involved in multiple police chases. The passenger was on record threatening to kill police officers. The chase had gone on long enough that the pursuing officers likely knew all this. It may not have taken much provocation at the stop for the officer to go into "kill" mode. It appears that he was not in "kill" mode when approaching the vehicle on foot. Otherwise, he never would have ended up on the hood of the vehicle before firing.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

tulc

loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!
May 18, 2002
49,401
18,801
68
✟271,570.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
actually of the 49 times he shot at them he only shot the last 15 rounds while on the hood of the car, the other 24 times was after the car had been stopped. But please, keep explaining how it was the unarmed people in the cars fault. that really never gets old. :wave:
tulc(wonders where some of those good police were that people are always talking about) :scratch:
 
Upvote 0