Circumcision is Messed Up

Tetra

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I don't get circumcision at all... and to be honest, to me it seems messed up that Christians still practice it.

No matter how you justify it, it's the genital mutilation of an un-consenting child. If you have proof that it's not, love to hear it.

Also, if it's so important, why aren't people simply allowing their child to make that decision when they're older?

Does anyone know why Christian's are still practicing this? I'd really love the female perspective on this from Christian mothers as well.
 

2PhiloVoid

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I don't get circumcision at all... and to be honest, to me it seems messed up that Christians still practice it.

No matter how you justify it, it's the genital mutilation of an un-consenting child. If you have proof that it's not, love to hear it.

Also, if it's so important, why aren't people simply allowing their child to make that decision when they're older?

Does anyone know why Christian's are still practicing this? I'd really love the female perspective on this from Christian mothers as well.

One reason may be that penile circumcision can permit better genital hygiene to some extent ...
 
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Tetra

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One reason may be that penile circumcision can permit better genital hygiene to some extent ...
If that was the case (which I think there is very limited research), wouldn't it be just as effective to teach their children about proper hygiene?

I fail to see how hygiene justifies permanently altering someones body without their consent.

I do agree though, some justify it using this as their basis.
 
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Radrook

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One reason may be that penile circumcision can permit better genital hygiene to some extent ...
As a man who suffered from phimosis, a severe inability to retract the penile foreskin in order to cleanse the penis, until age 18 I agree with that assessment. Had I been born in a hospital it would have been done and would have spared me all the hassle, embarrassment and pain.
 
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Tetra

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As a man who suffered from phimosis, a severe inability to retract the penile foreskin in order to cleanse the penis, until age 18 I agree with that assessment. Had I been born in a hospital it would have been done and would have spared me all the hassle, embarrassment and pain.
I have the same problem, my doc gave me some cream called Betaderm 0.05%, works well for me. :)

However, this still doesn't justify permanently altering a child's body on the basis of maybe getting phimosis in the future.
 
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Radrook

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I have the same problem, my doc gave me some cream called Betaderm 0.05%, works well for me. :)

However, this still doesn't justify permanently altering a child's body on the basis of maybe getting phimosis in the future.

There are different severities for the phimosis condition. Difficulty in retraction is one thing but inability to retract the foreskin at all as I had is another. I was ashamed to tell my parents so I was forced to lived with it. My first sex was excruciatingly painful and I had to desist. Only after repeated attempts did the frenun finally stretch sufficiently for a very difficult retraction. Finally I could wash properly. Before that I could not access beneath the foreskin at all and the accumulation of compacted, malodorous dead skin in nether region was offensive.

But yes, despite my troubles I tend to agree with you on the mutilating and painful aspect of the procedure. In fact, I was opposed to giving permission to have it done on my son but the mother insisted.
 
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Tallguy88

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I don't get circumcision at all... and to be honest, to me it seems messed up that Christians still practice it.

No matter how you justify it, it's the genital mutilation of an un-consenting child. If you have proof that it's not, love to hear it.

Also, if it's so important, why aren't people simply allowing their child to make that decision when they're older?

Does anyone know why Christian's are still practicing this? I'd really love the female perspective on this from Christian mothers as well.
I'm circumcised. I intend for any male children of mine to be as well. It's just the way we do, plus it has health benefits, both for the man and his sexual partners. All of my sister's had their boys circumcised, and so did my brother. His wife is a nurse and works in a hospital, so she knows the benefits.
 
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Tetra

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I'm circumcised. I intend for any male children of mine to be as well. It's just the way we do, plus it has health benefits, both for the man and his sexual partners. All of my sister's had their boys circumcised, and so did my brother. His wife is a nurse and works in a hospital, so she knows the benefits.
Can you please explain to me the benefits that only circumcision can provide? As someone who is in school with the intent of completing my BScN ,and as a parent myself who has thoroughly studied this topic. I have seen no "benefits" that only circumcision can provide. Please fill me in.

Also, any "benefits" still do not justify permanently altering a child body without their consent.
 
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Tetra

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Tallguy88

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Can you please explain to me the benefits that only circumcision can provide? As someone who is in school with the intent of completing my BScN ,and as a parent myself who has thoroughly studied this topic. I have seen no "benefits" that only circumcision can provide. Please fill me in.

I provided the thing from Mayo, it gives a decent overview.

My SIL has her BSCN and had her son circumcised. She's an overprotective sort, so she wouldn't have done it if there weren't health benefits. She's also not very religious.

Also, any "benefits" still do not justify permanently altering a child body without their consent.
Children cannot give medical consent. Their parents or legal guardians give consent on their behalf.
 
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Tallguy88

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Yup, I've read that too... and?

The reality is that this is a debated topic within the medical community itself... again, I fail to see how it justifies mutilating a child's genitals without consent.
Mutilation is a loaded word that implies destruction of the part. The penis is not destroyed or impeded from performing it's various functions. Sexual pleasure is not diminished.
 
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Tetra

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Mutilation is a loaded word that implies destruction of the part. The penis is not destroyed or impeded from performing it's various functions. Sexual pleasure is not diminished.
I respectfully disagree. It was an intentional use. Removing a body part which serves a function is most definitely mutilation. I fail to see how just because it doesn't destroy the entire penis, justifies the action.
 
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Radrook

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Mutilation is a loaded word that implies destruction of the part. The penis is not destroyed or impeded from performing it's various functions. Sexual pleasure is not diminished.


Advocates of routine circumcision say it is a safe procedure, with a negligible rate of mistakes and things that go wrong, and in a relative sense (compared with brain or heart surgery) this may be true. Even so, the rate of immediate complications in the USA is between 3 and 9 per cent, meaning (tens of thousands of boys each year), with a further 5 per cent experiencing problems later. Outside the sterile wards of US hospitals, in tribal initiation settings as in Africa, circumcision may infect boys with tuberculosis, tetanus and possibly AIDS, as well as causing crippling injury to the penis. Between 60 and 80 boys die each year in southern Africa alone. Even in developed countries, such as Canada, the United States and Australia, in hygienic conditions and with all the paraphernalia of modern medicine, deaths occur regularly.

Even if the rate of complications in western countries is low in a statistical sense, the result for the unlucky few can be a personal disaster, as the tragic cases recorded on this page show.
Circumcision: Injury and Harm | Circinfo.org

BTW
My cousin Billy decided that he wanted to get circumcised as an adult because he stupidly believed that it would promote penis enlargement. He suffered such complications that amputation was even considered as a possibility. No one in the hospital wanted the responsibility and his doctor who had gone off on vacation was contacted and rushed back. He barely escaped amputation but the hell that he described, such as injections and multiple incisions for drainage that he went through in order to prevent gangrene was horrible.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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If that was the case (which I think there is very limited research), wouldn't it be just as effective to teach their children about proper hygiene?
Yes, that too would be important and effective.

I fail to see how hygiene justifies permanently altering someones body without their consent.
I guess it's yet another issue to be brought up and discussed in Bio-Medical ethics classes.

I do agree though, some justify it using this as their basis.
You're probably right. Society is at a point that it should delve a bit more deeply into the need and the justification of this procedure.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid
 
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Winken

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As a man who suffered from phimosis, a severe inability to retract the penile foreskin in order to cleanse the penis, until age 18 I agree with that assessment. Had I been born in a hospital it would have been done and would have spared me all the hassle, embarrassment and pain.
My younger brother had that problem. It was corrected surgically in his later teenage years.
 
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Tetra

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Circumcision is Jewish. It represents the "trimming away of the flesh (sin)." The confession of Jesus as Savior today "trims away the flesh" of the sinful nature. The Jewish requirement is not necessary today.
So why are Christian's still practicing it?

I think it's because it's simply a cultural norm with little medical basis. Since the cultural norm is harming children, I've decided long ago to take a firm stance on this. I believe it to be unethical.
 
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Winken

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So why are Christian's still practicing it?

I think it's because it's simply a cultural norm with little medical basis. Since the cultural norm is harming children, I've decided long ago to take a firm stance on this. I believe it to be unethical.
It is a carry-over from the religion of the Hebrew folk. Many denominations did not understand that it was not a requirement for non-Jews.

(p.s.) This is one of the examples for not merging Jewish imperatives with Christian Grace. It falls under "rightly dividing the Word of Truth."
 
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