Churchgoer kills churchgoer over 'saved seats' scuffle

zephyrWiccan

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June 17th, 2015, I'm sure the congregants of Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in downtown Charleston, South Carolina, would have praised God for one of their number getting the drop on 21 year old Dylann Roof before he opened fire on them.
Should Robert Braxton's family and the other congregants in the church in the OP be praising god for this "law abiding citizen" in the OP CCWing his gun?
 
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seashale76

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cue Topol: "Tradition!"

Oh, I've been in churches where struggles of reformation and counter-reformation proportions have been fought over the flower-rota, or who contributes which course to the Harvest Festival supper, or runs which stall at the church fete.
And should the minister/organist dare to introduce a couple of new hymns not approved by the organist/minister a cold war was in the offing capable of producing liquid helium.

Sitting in the "wrong" pew or row of chairs was just one major error open to unwary newcomers...
This is where following in the footsteps of most Orthodox parishes in the world would come in handy. Don't have pews or chairs in the first place.
 
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ChristsSoldier115

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The only way to stop a bad churchgoer with a gun is with a good church goer with gun.

But seriously, who reserves seats in church??
Ever put your bible down in your seat and go to the bathroom so nobody steals your seat? I think that is what the article is saying sort of what happened.
 
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Four Angels Standing

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Should Robert Braxton's family and the other congregants in the church in the OP be praising god for this "law abiding citizen" in the OP CCWing his gun?
Was there a potential mass murderer threatening the congregation in the OP article?
 
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Chris B

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This is where following in the footsteps of most Orthodox parishes in the world would come in handy. Don't have pews or chairs in the first place.

Once upon a time that would have been fine. Nowadays I'd have to have to be carried in bed an' all.
Taking the roof out to do it might not be approved of, despite precedent.

More importantly I have known a good number of people whose religion was grounded in heritage, ritual, tradition and ceremony. Change, even at the trivial level, was the heresy to be fought against. As far as I can make out the sense of perpetuated stability and familiarity was their reassurance and comfort. In terms of words and behaviour in a congregation they will look very much like anyone else.
The give-away is the reaction to change, and the reasons given for opposing it.
 
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Hank77

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I hope this shooter is brought up on murder charges and convicted.

EDIT: My response is based on the facts in the article only, which may not be the complete story.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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The pastor may have some work to do.

"
A church member tapped Braxton on the shoulder to tell him the seats he was in were reserved.

Another couple put down two Bibles to save their spots before walking away.

Braxton replied to the tap by saying: 'Don't ****** touch me!' according to court documents.

Kevin Steele said Storms approached Braxton, showed his carry permit and asked him to leave.

He added that Braxton punched Storms, who then fired two shots.
"

This incident more likely came as a result of personal racism and/or paranoia. From the looks of it, this particular church seems to be, how do I say it, 'predominantly' white.
 
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smaneck

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Pathetic and sad. Looks like someone missed the entire point of their faith. And who brings a gun to church anyway?

In Mississippi they just passed a law allowing guns in church. A young man who does some work for me told me his pastor is encouraging this.
 
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Hank77

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This incident more likely came as a result of personal racism and/or paranoia. From the looks of it, this particular church seems to be, how do I say it, 'predominantly' white.
Sounds to me like the 46 yr. old man got angry when the whipper snapper kid talked back to him and did so disrespectfully. The guy has lack of self-control issues.
 
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seashale76

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In Mississippi they just passed a law allowing guns in church. A young man who does some work for me told me his pastor is encouraging this.
Sad. Orthodox clergy aren't even allowed to hunt for sport and any sort of weapons in church are actively discouraged.
 
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LaSorcia

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Only in America.

Not necessarily, we just don't hear the news from inland China, or many other countries.

Agreed. Who flashes a gun to settle simple disputes? In church, no less?! This, I would say, is a very dangerous individual who should absolutely not have a gun.

Yet, here we are.
Yep, I totally agree.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Sounds to me like the 46 yr. old man got angry when the whipper snapper kid talked back to him and did so disrespectfully. The guy has lack of self-control issues.

I'm not sure why the guy with the gun didn't just follow James' admonitions and let the younger guy continue to sit in the so-called 'saved' seat. :mmh:
 
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smaneck

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Sad. Orthodox clergy aren't even allowed to hunt for sport and any sort of weapons in church are actively discouraged.

My religion discourages us from carrying arms unless absolutely necessary (for instance if you're a cop.)
 
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The Lone Ranger

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What happened to turning the other cheek between these people? What happened to the order of dealing with problems within the Church here? There is a Biblical order of dealing with problems within the Church that was not followed in this instance.
.
 
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LivingWordUnity

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Luke 14
7 Now he [Jesus] told a parable to those who were invited, when he marked how they chose the places of honor, saying to them, 8 “When you are invited by any one to a marriage feast, do not sit down in a place of honor, lest a more eminent man than you be invited by him; 9 and he who invited you both will come, and say to you, ‘Give place to this man,’ and then you will begin with shame to take the lowest place. 10 But when you are invited, go and sit in the lowest place, so that when your host comes he may say to you, ‘Friend, go up higher’; then you will be honored in the presence of all who sit at table with you. 11 For every one who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
 
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Murby

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So let me see if I got this straight..
Idiot number 1 steals someone's saved seat and then punches the person who confronts him about it.
Idiot number 2 shoots idiot number 1.

I don't see a problem with this.. Idiot 1 is dead, idiot 2 is going to prison. The world has two less violent idiots to worry about.
 
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Catherineanne

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Ever put your bible down in your seat and go to the bathroom so nobody steals your seat? I think that is what the article is saying sort of what happened.

I have done this and found someone sitting in the place when I returned; it happens.

I go and sit somewhere else; I don't own the church.
 
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