Church~where are you?

[mkgal1]

I've been following a FB page called A Cry for Justice (ACFJ) by Jeff Crippen. Crippen's mission is to expose abuse and be a light in the darkness (educating people about abuse--including other pastors). He wrote this the other day and it makes me wonder WHY isn't this happening more often:

And Now for My Second Theory (Jeff C)

Imagine. The Beatles did that and wrote a song about it. Of course when they imagined, they went the atheistic route (no religion, no heaven, no hell, etc), but they may have had it partly right.

Imagine. Imagine if local churches, pastors, elders, church members, theologians and authors, were not:

* Enabling abusers
* Denying divorce for abuse
* Guilting abuse victims
* Minimizing abuse
* Being duped by abusers
* Ex-communicating abuse victims
* Spreading false doctrine and twisting the Scriptures
* (Shall we keep going?)

Imagine that. Imagine and compare. Compare the present plight of a Christian who is the victim of a domestic abuser. Victimized by evil in sheep's clothing. Compare what so many of you have experienced when you went to your church for help, with a world where the church is truly the church. A world where the church:

*Exposed evil and exposed abusers
*Let it be widely known that abuse is grounds for divorce
*Validates and justifies abuse victims
*Shouts the evil of abuse for all to hear without pulling punches
*Is wise to the cons of the abuser
*Embraces the victim and puts the abuser out of the church
*Teaches soundly and truthfully, proclaiming God's freeing truth in
all its glory and power.
*Stood by the victim to protect her, house her, provide for her

Imagining? Got that picture? Ok, now, imagine the status of the abuse victim in a world like that. And let me then ask you this question:

Would the ACFJ ministry be as necessary and attractive to soooo many victims as it is now? That is to say, if....well, let me put it this way-

In a world like that, not only would the church NOT be enabling abusers and adding to the bondage of the victims, the church would be "taking care of business" as the Lord Jesus Christ has commanded us to. In a world like that, the trauma suffered by victims would be exponentially reduced. A thousand of the wicked would flee with only one righteous church chasing them! It would become known far and wide that if you want an easy target to abuse, best not go to a Christian church. Abusers would still be around, but would they be anywhere near as common in our pews as they are now? Of course not.

And therefore, here is my second theory. I will state it like this:

Local churches and church leaders and church members who enable abusers are every bit as much of the problem behind the widespread presence of abuse in Christian churches as the abusers are themselves!! They are just as guilty as gasoline poured on a fire is.

That is my theory. And I am right. Yep. I am.

Only ONE person responded with a testimony of her church coming beside her and supporting her through her dealing with an abusive husband. One (and I can personally think of at least six people I know of---in my own circle of influence--that have been victimized by their husbands....and victimized and betrayed by their church staff and other members as they stood by and encouraged the abuser. Why?

The time where someone WAS supported:

I'm happy to say my church has provided a free masters level therapist for over a year now. We went from Sept 2015 to April 2016 with my husband and I in separate counseling with the idea of eventual marriage counseling.When the counselor had seen and heard enough to understand the magnitude of the problem, With me in his office, HE called my husband at our home and asked him to leave. My husband protested no place to go and no money so my counselor provided a four week solution to that problem so he would vacate the home. My husband left. Two weeks later he flipped out, threatened suicide, sent to mental hospital overnight, assaulted our 24 year old son with a heavy lead pipe the next day. So I filed for TPO and was able to keep him out of the home. Now I have a permanent PO and we are divorcing. My PCA church has rallied beside me. They have paid a mortgage payment, paid for my psychiatrist, provided security for counseling sessions when it was very dangerous, pastors are praying for me and the people have been wonderful to me. They referred me to the DV group in my city for additional trauma counseling. I'm divorcing and I have their support. They would bring church discipline against him if I wanted to press it, but he can't go to the church because of PO, so I don't need to bother. Two lawyers in the church have advised me. One offered to mediate for free. When I was suicidal and more, their therapist saw me three times a week and was available night and day to me by text, email and phone. This church has been phenomenal. I never would have left or survived without them. And keep in mind, BOTH my husband and I are members and were faithfully attending.~https://cryingoutforjustice.com/

In my view.....it's not "promoting divorce" to recognize that there are times when being in the same household is no longer safe for those involved nor is it honorable to God. Instead.....it's promoting healthy marriages.......it's promoting genuine love......it's promoting the Fruit of the Spirit....to have--at least---the standard of NO abuse in marriages (and to protect people from that).

I'm curious to read what others have experienced. Do you know of someone that was supported through a time of an abusive marriage? Were YOU supported yourself through something like this? Was there any intervention to counsel the abuser? Share your experiences. BTW ....October is Domestic Abuse Awareness month....and IMO....the church leaders should do all they can to be more aware of their ability to either encourage a person through a situation like this or help put an end to the pain in each situation.

 

[DZoolander]

If I met a woman who was in an abusive situation, Church is the last place I would tell her to go in order to find support. Generally speaking, most churches are vested in the thousand foot view of marriage, and protecting it. As a result, they're not particularly concerned with the specific circumstances of the individual. Sure, if they can somehow protect the marriage AND do good for the individual, they will do it. But, the individual is the secondary concern, not the primary.

Clearly some marriages need to be dissolved for the safety of the parties involved. That's just a fact. But, because they cannot make the logical leap to what that means (sanctioning divorce), Churches won't do it. Maybe they'll sanction or give half hearted approval of a separation...but that comes with strings. The goal is to bring them back together (often void of any other real concerns like truly having fixed the issue), and remarriage is not an option. In that way of looking at things - often the person who was the subject of abuse and the one who had completely morally valid reasons for leaving is the one who gets the most chastisement.

It really is a perverse system the way that it works out in real life.

 

[mkgal1]

I totally agree with you (on your whole post).

This "protecting marriage" idea seems to have nothing to do with the actual PEOPLE involved....it's like it's more about protecting a symbol of evangelical Christianity (TM)...and not something that binds two actual people (along with any children they may have). IOW....it's more like a fantasy perception (and any closer than the "thousand foot view" you mentioned---it's not even looked at. It seems that heads turn away when things get more into focus ).

 

[mina]

I know there are churches out there that do encourage abusers and for victims to stay in abusive households and I find that extremely horrible. The church I consider my home church does not. Or at least, they did not when I attended there for over 15 years. They even have a ministry that supports women and children needing a place to stay with an offsite apartment complex. I was not married when I attended there, so I am not familiar with what was going on when counseling marriages where there was abuse, but I was part of a women's only sunday school class. The class had women from all walks of life- married, single, seperated, divorced, etc.... I know the teacher did not encourage women to stay in abusive situations. There were only a handful of women I met there who were recently seperated and at no time were they encouraged to reconcile while the abuse was likely to continue. There were places for them to stay and resources available. I don't think that this was the norm within the church world. I think we just had good people in leadership. Also, this was a rather large church in a rural community, but the majority of the congregation and leaders were professionals who were able to lend their services as a ministry to people, and that was encouraged.

 

[WolfGate]

Good people in leadership will, before a situation arises, think about how they will handle suspicions or accusations or even inklings of abuse. And they will put a process/policy in place to direct their actions once one of those occurs. If you wait until there is a reason to act, relationships and emotions and uncertainty get in the picture and can lead to regrettable decisions. It is too easy to believe that Mr. or Mrs. Smith could "never do that" because abusers can be very good at hiding the specific sin and traits that result in their abusing. It is easy to believe "it can't happen here" when for a church of any size it almost certainly has and will again.

A goal of bringing them back together again if true repentance happens and if the abuser is willing to be subject to discipline and the abused provided with a trusted supporter in church leadership is not a bad goal. But bringing them back together again without that is folly.

 

[mkgal1]

That's encouraging to read about the church where you moved from, Mina. And....from what I've experienced and read---I think you're exactly spot on when you wrote this:

I don't think that this was the norm within the church world. I think we just had good people in leadership.

 

[mkgal1]

If you wait until there is a reason to act, relationships and emotions and uncertainty get in the picture and can lead to regrettable decisions. It is too easy to believe that Mr. or Mrs. Smith could "never do that" because abusers can be very good at hiding the specific sin and traits that result in their abusing. It is easy to believe "it can't happen here" when for a church of any size it almost certainly has and will again.

A goal of bringing them back together again if true repentance happens and if the abuser is willing to be subject to discipline and the abused provided with a trusted supporter in church leadership is not a bad goal. But bringing them back together again without that is folly.

I agree with you, Wolfgate. I think maybe one factor may be that people don't really understand what "true repentance" is....or how to discern it. It's far more than a person crying some tears and saying, "I'm sorry". And---contrary to popular belief---it takes more than just "praying to God for guidance" ....there's some necessary work that needs to be done with qualified professionals (another controversial part of it).

A bit of a rabbit trail....but another friend of mine is off in a 30-day treatment center after many years of suffering with depression, anxiety, and isolation that all began with being sexually abused as a child....then having breast cancer (which led to having a double mastectomy)......then added in: her husband of over 30 years confessed that the reason he was distant from her was due to his inappropriate content addiction (and he was especially drawn to large-breasted women.....exactly what she *wasn't*). That was about the straw that broke the camel's back. When she finally got the courage to spill all this to their pastor....the response was, "give it up to God....He is your healer and comforter". She wrestled with that method for about 3 years, before she realized that just wasn't going to be the solution. While no one disagrees with that (that God is our "healer and comforter").....there's also a need for the sort of healing that comes from licensed therapists...and programs like what she's finally involved in, where one can sort of get immersed in new thoughts....new ways of coping (and none of this is contrary to Christianity). One wouldn't suggest if you needed your house painted that you "pray about it--God provides"....you know? There are times where we NEED hand's-on.....actual human ears hearing us......correcting our wrong-thinking...etc.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

her husband of over 30 years confessed that the reason he was distant from her was due to his inappropriate content addiction (and he was especially drawn to large-breasted women.....exactly what she *wasn't*). That was about the straw that broke the camel's back.

I'd toss HIM out...door opening optional.

When she finally got the courage to spill all this to their pastor....the response was, "give it up to God....He is your healer and comforter"

That's a wuss non-answer. That pastor has NO business leading a flock.

 

[WolfGate]

I agree with you, Wolfgate. I think maybe one factor may be that people don't really understand what "true repentance" is....or how to discern it. It's far more than a person crying some tears and saying, "I'm sorry". And---contrary to popular belief---it takes more than just "praying to God for guidance" ....there's some necessary work that needs to be done with qualified professionals (another controversial part of it).

Absolutely. Weak church leaders, who would really rather not have this problem to deal with, will fall back on confession, regret and a stated claim to never do it again and call that repentance. You know what, it may be true - but the church cannot accept that without accountability. Someone who is truly repentant will accept, even want, accountability and will want a safe path for their spouse because they will understand that they are susceptible to this sin and therefore need both support to prevent reoccurrence and to show publically to their church and their spouse that they have repented and are taking steps towards true change and restoration. The work of the church only begins when the confession is made.

 

[johndoo]

My mother was supported. I'm thankful for the clergy that helped her.

 

[Dave-W]

That's a wuss non-answer. That pastor has NO business leading a flock.

There are some christian groups that insist going to anyone TRAINED as a counselor is sinful - and going to a psychiatrist is even worse? God ALONE is the "wonderful counselor." Isa 9.6

 

[mkgal1]

My mother was supported. I'm thankful for the clergy that helped her.

Do you mind sharing in what way? That's so encouraging to read.

 

[mkgal1]

There are some christian groups that insist going to anyone TRAINED as a counselor is sinful - and going to a psychiatrist is even worse? God ALONE is the "wonderful counselor." Isa 9.6

Yep. That's just what their belief was (well.....probably still is!). Thank goodness she had a strong faith in GOD (not so much in His "followers" however). That whole belief system is what isolated her for so long (and allowed things to spiral and intensify).

"“You will know them by their fruits"~Matthew 7:15

She experienced a LOT of rotten fruit ....and six days into her program she reported (on FB), "I've experienced more love and support--and understanding--these past six days than I think I have over my whole lifetime".

 

[mkgal1]

Absolutely. Weak church leaders, who would really rather not have this problem to deal with [...]

I think you just summed up the whole problem right there.

 

[Dave-W]

I think you just summed up the whole problem right there.

Not the whole problem. What I stated was one part of the problem; and this is a different part. I do not think those with a doctrinal avoidance of counseling arts are necessarily lazy. Just deceived.

And I do not necessarily think that the lazy pastors and leaders have a doctrinal issue against counseling.

 

[Gwen-is-new!]

IMO - the church leaders AND probably most of the members themselves don't have a clue how to deal with abused wives, pregnant teenagers, inappropriate content issues, drugs addictions,etc.. They seem to be equipped to deal with those living the "perfect" life WHO occasionally have a faith crisis and need encouragement - that is why the "give it to God" verbiage works.

Some churches do realize that not everyone has a perfect life and there are Christians with real serious probs out there - those churches have ministries such as the Stephen ministry, or employ "life coaches", or host organizations such as "Divorce Care" or "Celebrate Recovery", and I'm sure there are a bunch more. But in general, and again this is just my personal observation, Christians in dire-situations need to seek help outside the church either Christ-center services or not.

So, my response to your question .. the church is NOT there, and I'm pretty sure it never has been.

 

[mkgal1]

Not the whole problem. What I stated was one part of the problem; and this is a different part. I do not think those with a doctrinal avoidance of counseling arts are necessarily lazy. Just deceived.

But when they begin to see people in their group that are being trampled on (and it's repeated over and over again)...doesn't it seem that they'd begin to take a closer look at all that. Sort of the idea of "if you keep doing the same thing, you're going to continue to get the same results". I think WolfGate is correct in using the adjectives of "lazy" and "weak".....because they are slacking in their actual basic "job description". It's easy to not notice the national statistics.....but when a person that you see each week....that's been placed as a ministry leader....is calling you personally (the pastors)....asking for help---how can that be walked away from? The response was, "we don't get involved in domestic issues....you need to call the police for that" (in one instance that I'm thinking of). I don't want to disclose too much.....but that whole situation has grown to be a HUGE injustice for the one that should have been supported (and by not supporting her---her abuser is free to attack her without any consequence so far).

And I do not necessarily think that the lazy pastors and leaders have a doctrinal issue against counseling.

The situations I'm thinking of---counseling from within is all that's endorsed. "Out there" (they taught) you're going to get "worldly advice".

 

[mkgal1]

IMO - the church leaders AND probably most of the members themselves don't have a clue how to deal with abused wives, pregnant teenagers, inappropriate content issues, drugs addictions,etc.. They seem to be equipped to deal with those living the "perfect" life WHO occasionally have a faith crisis and need encouragement - that is why the "give it to God" verbiage works.

Exactly! That's all set up for the "Christian bubble" life---but when the "rubber hits the road" (so to speak).....it falls completely flat (and---I think---that's why people scatter and act as if they didn't see). People would have to make their own adjustments in their belief system (and--IMO---I think that sort of change is frightening to most people).

 

[mkgal1]

Some churches do realize that not everyone has a perfect life and there are Christians with real serious probs out there - those churches have ministries such as the Stephen ministry, or employ "life coaches", or host organizations such as "Divorce Care" or "Celebrate Recovery", and I'm sure there are a bunch more. But in general, and again this is just my personal observation, Christians in dire-situations need to seek help outside the church either Christ-center services or not.

Those are great ministries. I agree.....there are times when those still aren't enough. It's probably a really good indicator (as a positive sign) if a church does participate (or--at least---refer people to) in those ministries.

So, my response to your question .. the church is NOT there, and I'm pretty sure it never has been.

I don't think it's quite accurate to say "never has been" ---but there's definitely a deficiency. I do, however, believe there's always been those that are truly committed to genuinely showing God's love and care ...it's just that they seem to be the minority that's shadowed by the institutional church.

 

[Dave-W]

But when they begin to see people in their group that are being trampled on (and it's repeated over and over again)...doesn't it seem that they'd begin to take a closer look at all that. Sort of the idea of "if you keep doing the same thing, you're going to continue to get the same results". I think WolfGate is correct in using the adjectives of "lazy" and "weak".....because they are slacking in their actual basic "job description".

You have never been on the inside of one of those groups. Even if people are literally dying, it is their fault for not having enough faith. And if someone does go outside for help, they are shunned by the leaders and often much of the congregation as well.