Church of Antioch = Eastern Orthodox?

[Esdra]

Hi

I just read the description for TAW and it says:

The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox The forum for Eastern Orthodox churches (such as Greek, Russian, Antiochian, etc).

I thought that the Antiochian Church is an Oriental-Orthodox Church?

Man, all those various Orthodox Churches are really confusing!

 

[Searching_for_Christ]

Antioch is one of the five sees

 

[Kristos]

Hi

I just read the description for TAW and it says:



I thought that the Antiochian Church is an Oriental-Orthodox Church?

Man, all those various Orthodox Churches are really confusing!

Shall I confuse you more? If I remember correctly, there are five Patriarchs of Antioch - so really, just saying Antiochian doesn't say much. In North America, the Greek Patriarch of Antioch has a large presence, so that is usually what is meant when someone says "Antiochian". There are also the Melkites, the Maronites, the ACOE (Nestorian) and Syriac (OO) Patriarchs of Antioch. I don't know if any of them are actually still in Antioch - they mostly like all reside elsewhere now - Greek Patriarch of Antioch is in Damascus for example. The Melkites and Maronites are in communion with Rome. The ACOE is in communion only with themselves as far as I know. The Syriac church is in communion with the OO: Copts, Ethiopians, Malankarans, Armenians etc.

 

[Esdra]

Shall I confuse you more? If I remember correctly, there are five Patriarchs of Antioch - so really, just saying Antiochian doesn't say much. In North America, the Greek Patriarch of Antioch has a large presence, so that is usually what is meant when someone says "Antiochian". There are also the Melkites, the Maronites, the ACOE (Nestorian) and Syriac (OO) Patriarchs of Antioch. I don't know if any of them are actually still in Antioch - they mostly like all reside elsewhere now - Greek Patriarch of Antioch is in Damascus for example. The Melkites and Maronites are in communion with Rome. The ACOE is in communion only with themselves as far as I know. The Syriac church is in communion with the OO: Copts, Ethiopians, Malankarans, Armenians etc.

Well it actually helped. Good job. ;-) thanks.

I am really glad that I don't consider converting neither to eo nor to oo. I think I would be completely confused on the topic which church is in communion with which. :-/

Eastern Catholicism seems to be a good alternative to enquire " orthodoxy" however.

 

[lawndartboy]

Well it actually helped. Good job. ;-) thanks.

I am really glad that I don't consider converting neither to eo nor to oo. I think I would be completely confused on the topic which church is in communion with which. :-/

Eastern Catholicism seems to be a good alternative to enquire " orthodoxy" however.

When you become Orthodox it is uncommon to "jump" around to different churches anyhow so it isn't that big of a deal. The problem with becoming Eastern Catholic is that you would have to accept several heresies such as Papal Infallibility, The Filioque, Original Sin ect....

 

[E.C.]

There are a few sects based in Antioch, yes, most of them are located in Syria, but leaving because of the civil war.

There are:
-Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch (that's us!)
-Melkite Greek Catholic Church of Antioch (used to be part of us, but there was a dispute in patriarchal elections in the 1700s).
-Syriac Orthodox Church (Oriental Orthodox)

-Maronite Catholic Church (patriarch has the title "of Antioch", but resides in Lebanon where most Maronites live - an Eastern Catholic Church that has their own liturgical rite).


In the North American context of the use of "Antiochian" it means under the Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch. The use of "Greek" is in reference to the liturgical rite of the Church.
And just because there's division doesn't mean we don't get along. In the last decade there have been a few local agreements between them allowing the people to receive Communion in each others church's when the emergency situation presents itself.

 

[WisdomTree]

Shall I confuse you more? If I remember correctly, there are five Patriarchs of Antioch - so really, just saying Antiochian doesn't say much. In North America, the Greek Patriarch of Antioch has a large presence, so that is usually what is meant when someone says "Antiochian". There are also the Melkites, the Maronites, the ACOE (Nestorian) and Syriac (OO) Patriarchs of Antioch. I don't know if any of them are actually still in Antioch - they mostly like all reside elsewhere now - Greek Patriarch of Antioch is in Damascus for example. The Melkites and Maronites are in communion with Rome. The ACOE is in communion only with themselves as far as I know. The Syriac church is in communion with the OO: Copts, Ethiopians, Malankarans, Armenians etc.

ACOE or the Assyrian Church of the East do not claim the see of Antioch, but the see of Seleucia-Ctesiphon (Baghdad). Also the church is currently in schism with the Ancient Church of the East being another contender due to the change of the liturgical calendar (Julian to Gregorian). The see you are missing is the Syriac Catholic Church of Antioch. There are currently three Catholic Patriarchs who claim the see of Antioch.

Let's make things more confusing, the Melkite Patriarch also claims the sees of Alexandria and Jerusalem. How and why? I have no idea...

 

[buzuxi02]

The Antiochan Orthodox Church which s EO is the largest group of Christians in Syria. They were commonly refered to as the Syrian Orthodox Church a few decades ago but changed their name to Antiochan because of confusion with the Syriac orthodox church.

The rest of the groups are uniates who came about because of the vaticans meddling in the 17th and 18th centuries.

 

[Esdra]

When you become Orthodox it is uncommon to "jump" around to different churches anyhow so it isn't that big of a deal. The problem with becoming Eastern Catholic is that you would have to accept several heresies such as Papal Infallibility, The Filioque, Original Sin ect....

Yes that well might be that church hopping isn't that common in the eo as well as the oo.
But I think I'd never convert though. Because what strikes me is that I've read somewhere that my Catholic baptism and confirmation aren't really seen as valid and that I at least would need to repeat chrismation.
So, if I'd would like to look east, eastern Catholicism'd be the better choice imo.
Beside the things you call a heresy.

Although I think to talk about heresies in the context of orthodoxy is problematic because they have apostolic succession as well as valid magisterium.

 

[Kristos]

ACOE or the Assyrian Church of the East do not claim the see of Antioch, but the see of Seleucia-Ctesiphon (Baghdad). Also the church is currently in schism with the Ancient Church of the East being another contender due to the change of the liturgical calendar (Julian to Gregorian). The see you are missing is the Syriac Catholic Church of Antioch. There are currently three Catholic Patriarchs who claim the see of Antioch.

Let's make things more confusing, the Melkite Patriarch also claims the sees of Alexandria and Jerusalem. How and why? I have no idea...

LOL! I knew there were 5 - just got them wrong

 

[rusmeister]

Yes that well might be that church hopping isn't that common in the eo as well as the oo.
But I think I'd never convert though. Because what strikes me is that I've read somewhere that my Catholic baptism and confirmation aren't really seen as valid and that I at least would need to repeat chrismation.
So, if I'd would like to look east, eastern Catholicism'd be the better choice imo.
Beside the things you call a heresy.

Although I think to talk about heresies in the context of orthodoxy is problematic because they have apostolic succession as well as valid magisterium.

If you're putting ANYTHING before what is true, then you're putting the cart before the horse. You don't choose Eastern Catholic or whatever because they will validate your previous Christian experience - you choose them because you think they are the TRUEST representation of the Christian Church. Ask Anhelyna, our resident Eastern Catholic. I'm sure she'll tell you the same thing.

So wherever you go, make sure it's the truest, first, and then do whatever they tell you. That's the only way you can even be consistent.

 

[E.C.]

Yes that well might be that church hopping isn't that common in the eo as well as the oo.
But I think I'd never convert though. Because what strikes me is that I've read somewhere that my Catholic baptism and confirmation aren't really seen as valid and that I at least would need to repeat chrismation.
So, if I'd would like to look east, eastern Catholicism'd be the better choice imo.
Beside the things you call a heresy.

Although I think to talk about heresies in the context of orthodoxy is problematic because they have apostolic succession as well as valid magisterium.

Baptism from the Roman Catholic Church is seen as "valid" by the Orthodox. I was not rebaptized, but did go through Christmation (one of the nice things is that a bishop is not needed for it unlike the Catholic Church )

Take anything you read online with a grain of salt especially with regards to individual conversions. There are rules which the entire Orthodox Church has, and there are rules of individual bishops within their dioceses. One bishop may say that a RC convert needs only chrismation, while another says that an RC convert needs to be baptized. It all depends on the bishop, but more importantly the individual's situation.