Church bans scattering of ashes

[Open Heart]

Catholic Church bans scattering of ashes as 'pantheism' http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/25/catholic-church-bans-scattering-of-ashes-as-pantheism/

Scattering ashes is NOT pantheism. Who came up with this idea? I plan to be cremated and have my ashes scattered for two reasons:

• The biggest reason is that I simply don't have the money and neither do my kids. Unless the Vatican wants to pay for the internment of ashes they should get out of it.
• I want to be visited and remembered. I don't think my kids will go to a cemetary to remember me. By having my ashes scattered at the National Park where we have often gone, they will recall me and the good times we had every time they go there.

It has nothing at all with Pantheism.

 

[Michie]

Already posted.

 

[pdudgeon]

Catholic Church bans scattering of ashes as 'pantheism' http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/25/catholic-church-bans-scattering-of-ashes-as-pantheism/

Scattering ashes is NOT pantheism. Who came up with this idea? I plan to be cremated and have my ashes scattered for two reasons:

• The biggest reason is that I simply don't have the money and neither do my kids. Unless the Vatican wants to pay for the internment of ashes they should get out of it.
• I want to be visited and remembered. I don't think my kids will go to a cemetary to remember me. By having my ashes scattered at the National Park where we have often gone, they will recall me and the good times we had every time they go there.

It has nothing at all with Pantheism.

i agree. my God knows just where I am, whether I'm alive or dead, or in the belly of a great fish. (i see they left that one out of the article!)

i could go on about how ridiculous this is to be so minutely concerned with corporal things, but i won't.

 

[Tallguy88]

I'm pretty sure it was already banned, they just reiterated it. I've heard scattering was banned for years.

 

[Tallguy88]

This is pretty much settled doctrine, though. What you choose to do is your own busines, but you aren't really supposed to argue against the doctrine here in OBOB.

 

[Blondepudding]

Isn't that in conflict with those passages that talk about being dust of the earth and returning to that?

How is scattering ashes pantheism?

I'm going to be cremated and my ashes are to be part of an eternal reef ceremony.
Spending eternity in a fish sea toilet of my choice.

 

[Goatee]

Catholic Church bans scattering of ashes as 'pantheism' http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/25/catholic-church-bans-scattering-of-ashes-as-pantheism/

Scattering ashes is NOT pantheism. Who came up with this idea? I plan to be cremated and have my ashes scattered for two reasons:

• The biggest reason is that I simply don't have the money and neither do my kids. Unless the Vatican wants to pay for the internment of ashes they should get out of it.
• I want to be visited and remembered. I don't think my kids will go to a cemetary to remember me. By having my ashes scattered at the National Park where we have often gone, they will recall me and the good times we had every time they go there.

It has nothing at all with Pantheism.

Dont believe everything you read in the papers!

 

[Davidnic]

It's not new and the Church did not say scattering was pantheism, but that it could be. I have not read the document yet but I did see that part. I have seen Catholic arguments to keeping ashes in a home reverently in the past. It will be an interesting read.

 

[pdudgeon]

It's not new and the Church did not say scattering was pantheism, but that it could be. I have not read the document yet but I did see that part. I have seen Catholic arguments to keeping ashes in a home reverently in the past. It will be an interesting read.

it was indeed an interesting read.
it does say that it was an instruction only, and not that it was considered to be dogma.

 

[MikeK]

This has been the consistent teaching of the Church. Scattering of ashes has never been permitted.

I have no preference regarding what becomes of my body after my death. I wish for my loved ones to do as pleases them, and not to burden themselves unduly. In the rather unlikely event that the time should come that I decide that my death will come at my own hands, I will have myself buried at sea.

 

[bill5]

This has been the consistent teaching of the Church. Scattering of ashes has never been permitted.

Not true.

From the article......

For centuries the Catholic Church forbade cremation altogether, primarily because of the teaching that Christians will be raised from the grave ahead of the Day of Judgment.

The ban was finally lifted in 1963 in a landmark Vatican document which accepted that there were often pressing social and sanitary needs for cremation but urged Catholics to choose burial wherever possible.

The new guidance accepts cremation in principle but signals a clampdown on increasingly varied uses for ashes, insisting instead that they should only be kept in a “sacred place”, such as a cemetery.

In other words, you won't be denied Heaven if you're cremated even per RCC.

So this thread subject line is incorrect. It is not "banned." It is discouraged and condemned if you "do it wrong" (basically in a non-Christian way).

 

[MikeK]

Not true.

From the article......





In other words, you won't be denied Heaven if you're cremated even per RCC.

So this thread subject line is incorrect. It is not "banned." It is discouraged and condemned if you "do it wrong" (basically in a non-Christian way).

Cremation is not forbidden, scattering of ashes is and always has been. Am I stating that wrong?

 

[MoonlessNight]

One mistake that many people are making is getting their news of the specifics of Catholic policy from the telegraph. Well, most newspapers would be a mistake, but the telegraph isn't even above average in this respect. We're all well familiar with multiple instances of where the press has mangled Catholic teaching, even really obvious points (recent examples would include the national post claiming that funerals and the sacrament of last rites were the same thing or the new york times printing that Christians believe that Jesus IS buried in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre) so why do we trust them to give us new information about our faith?

The Vatican site has an article which has the full English translation of the instructions regarding burial. There is no need to refer to indirect commentary when you have the original text.

The quote that the newspaper is riffing off of is this:

In order that every appearance of pantheism, naturalism or nihilism be avoided, it is not permitted to scatter the ashes of the faithful departed in the air, on land, at sea or in some other way, nor may they be preserved in mementos, pieces of jewelry or other objects. These courses of action cannot be legitimized by an appeal to the sanitary, social, or economic motives that may have occasioned the choice of cremation.

The preceding paragraphs discuss that cremation is allowed if done out of economic or sanitary necessity. In cases of extreme economic necessity, with permission of the local bishop, it is allowed for the ashes of the decease to be kept in a residence, but in all other cases it should be avoided and they should instead be kept in a more noble place, such as a cemetery or church.

With this preceding context the controversial paragraph becomes clearer: there are not situations where it is economically necessary to scatter the ashes. In the most extreme cases the ashes might be kept in a less noble place, but even then there is no economic benefit to scattering them. Likewise, it is not more sanitary to scatter them. Thus if they are scattered, it is not for economic or sanitary reasons, and must be for some other reasons. Common sentiments on scattering include wanting the deceased to "be one with nature" (which echoes of pantheism), that the deceased body is just a bunch of crude mater not worth preserving (naturalism), or that it doesn't matter what happens since they're dead anyway (nihilism).

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Ashes are more convenient, take up less space and are portable. It makes more and more sense to go down this path for me.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Scattering ashes of a loved one can be problematic on other issues besides Catholic teaching.

First off, you're scattering the ashes on either private or public property, which can be used for things other than what you or your the deceased intended.

Parks, dogs doing their business, people walking spitting and whatever on the ground where your ashes are spread.

Then of course private property owners may not want the ashes of some one spread across their land.

A woman is suing Boston Children's Hospital, in order to stop them from expanding the hospital on a garden area, where she had spread her brother's ashes after his death.

Something to think about.

Jim

 

[bill5]

Cremation is not forbidden, scattering of ashes is and always has been. Am I stating that wrong?

No I am, helps if I pay attention, pardon the stoopid on my part.

 

[Gnarwhal]

I have no idea what should be done with my body when I die. On the one hand, I won't want to wake up inside a casket, on the other I don't want to wake up in a cremation oven.

So maybe I'll have my mortician buddy stuff my torso with dynamite, light the fuse and then drop me from a helicopter at 10,000 feet.

 

[pdudgeon]

I have no idea what should be done with my body when I die. On the one hand, I won't want to wake up inside a casket, on the other I don't want to wake up in a cremation oven.

So maybe I'll have my mortician buddy stuff my torso with dynamite, light the fuse and then drop me from a helicopter at 10,000 feet.

your post does raise some very interesting questions.
especially when we look at the physical setting of the story about Lazarus who was raised from the dead.

there were some interesting burial practices in those days.
catacombs, etc.

 

[LoAmmi]

there were some interesting burial practices in those days.
catacombs, etc.

Jews have always had an aversion to, in any way, destroying or damaging the body. Even today, we do not use any kind of embalming nor do we cremate. The body is also supposed to be buried the next day, providing it isn't Saturday.

 

[Michie]

Jews have always had an aversion to, in any way, destroying or damaging the body. Even today, we do not use any kind of embalming nor do we cremate. The body is also supposed to be buried the next day, providing it isn't Saturday.

I've got a book on why Jewish people do what they do and it is fascinating. I actually keft a stone on my FIL's stone the other day. I take a lot of it seriously due to the fact in my belief system you all are the very thing we sprouted from. I have deep respect for the Jewish people and their traditions.