Christmas Day Service

[rcorlew]

You know, at our church we have a name for people who just show up on Christmas and Easter, they are called C & E Christians.

Yes we have Christmas celebrations, but Christmas Eve as most people around here go to grandmas house for Christmas so there aren't many people around until afternoon.

On a de-secularization of Christmas note, a few Sunday School Classes from our church ranging in ages from 18 - mid 30's are going to the heart of the secular celebration and doing something very different, While people are walking around the Country Club Plaza taking in the Christmas season and taking carriage rides around this historic and beautiful site, we will be handing out hot chocolate and cider as well as other goodies and talking to people about the true reason for the season. God has given the perfect opportunity for us in this setting to proclaim the Gospel, we are very excited to do this. We will be going every Saturday Evening in December and setting up in front of the big fountain that is at the entrance to the area.

Joy is the reason for the season, and my season lasts 12 months not one day!

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

There is nothing wrong with traditions per se, many churches have traditions that are not "biblical" in that they were not observed during the early church period, as I already stated there is nothing wrong with celebrating Christmas. My only point is that not observing it doesn't make one any less of a Christian or "in Christ" than someone that does.

Someone that sees it as a pagan holiday cannot however observe it in a clear conscience. Even the reasonings you gave in reference to your observance has pagan influence in it, whether you realize it or not.

There are no pagan influences in my post. Christmas was celebrated in the early Church.

 

[bbbbbbb]

That is part of the problem of protestants adopting two Catholic Holy Days. Christmas and Easter are two seemingly, totally randomly placed holidays with no place in the overall scheme of the year and the rest of the holidays.

Which holidays? I assume you don't mean the Fourth of July, Armistice Day, Columbus Day, or Valentine's Day. I also doubt you mean the holy days as enumerated in the Penteteuch and subsequently added to by later Jews.

I would like to mention on your points:
1) Christians don't celebrate, nor have they ever celebrated Christmas on any date (as far as I know) because they believed it was the day Jesus was born. The idea in early Christianity and for many today (Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans, et cetera) is to have a yearly cycle in which the entire Gospel is addressed. Rather than pastor Steve coming up with a kickin' sermon and tossing in scripture, the early Church and many today still make the reality of Christ's life and ministry present in the celebrations and all the Gospel readings throughout the year.

Strangely (at least to me) I encounter numerous professing Christians, including some who really ought to know better, proclaiming that Christ was born on December 25. Out of curiosity you may wish to visit hymntime.com and scan the really enormous number of Christmas hymnas and carols stating that Jesus Christ was born on Christmas Day on a silent, snowy night. BTW, these hymns and carols were not written by Pastor Steve or any CCM artist.

2) I really, really, really wish people would stop using this argument. It is entirely irrational. I can go to just about any church in the world on a given Sunday and find them doing things nocommanded in the bible.

So?

 

[bbbbbbb]

December 25 was picked in the western Church because of the significance of the day, not because of a guess.

It was the darkest day of the year, but started the return to summer.

Well, I guess they got that wrong, as well. December 25 is neither the darkest nor the shortest day of the year - certainly not in the southern hemisphere of the earth nor in the northern hemisphere.

On that point, at least the Druids and other ancient religions which were quite focused on astronomy, had they shortest and longest days completely understood.

 

[bbbbbbb]

There is nothing pagan about Christmas- unless you want to believe that the birth of Jesus, the Gospel and the Nativity are of pagan origin.

There may be nothing pagan at all about the incarnation of Jesus Christ, but there is plenty of pagan origins which has found its way into various celebrations of His incarnation.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Try reading the first chapters of Luke. Christmas is indeed biblical.

The incarnation of Jesus Christ is biblical. The celebration of His incarnation on December 25 is not biblical.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Christmas was being celebrated before the bible was even canonized. The Gospels had just been written down when it began.

For once, I agree entirely. December 25 was being celebrated, as a matter of fact, even before Jesus Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit.

 

[bbbbbbb]

You know, at our church we have a name for people who just show up on Christmas and Easter, they are called C & E Christians.

Yes we have Christmas celebrations, but Christmas Eve as most people around here go to grandmas house for Christmas so there aren't many people around until afternoon.

On a de-secularization of Christmas note, a few Sunday School Classes from our church ranging in ages from 18 - mid 30's are going to the heart of the secular celebration and doing something very different, While people are walking around the Country Club Plaza taking in the Christmas season and taking carriage rides around this historic and beautiful site, we will be handing out hot chocolate and cider as well as other goodies and talking to people about the true reason for the season. God has given the perfect opportunity for us in this setting to proclaim the Gospel, we are very excited to do this. We will be going every Saturday Evening in December and setting up in front of the big fountain that is at the entrance to the area.

Joy is the reason for the season, and my season lasts 12 months not one day!

Excellent post. I enjoy the Country Club Plaza on the few times I am able to visit Kansas City and it is quite beautiful at the Christmas season, as is Rockefeller Center in New York City. If only Christians could appreciate the incarnation of Jesus Christ all twelve months as much as they enjoy these fleeting earthly scenes.!

 

[lionroar0]

Well, I guess they got that wrong, as well. December 25 is neither the darkest nor the shortest day of the year - certainly not in the southern hemisphere of the earth nor in the northern hemisphere.

On that point, at least the Druids and other ancient religions which were quite focused on astronomy, had they shortest and longest days completely understood.

pffft.

People who's livelihoods depended on the cycle of the seasons would know which day was the shortest and what night was the longest of the year.

Let's say people who lived in an agrarian culture.

 

[lionroar0]

Originally Posted by SpiritualAntiseptic

Christmas was being celebrated before the bible was even canonized. The Gospels had just been written down when it began.
​

For once, I agree entirely. December 25 was being celebrated, as a matter of fact, even before Jesus Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit.

Help me out here, because I'm confused by your post. Did Jesus exist before the Bible or did the Bible exist before Jesus?

 

[lionroar0]

Originally Posted by SpiritualAntiseptic

Try reading the first chapters of Luke. Christmas is indeed biblical.

The incarnation of Jesus Christ is biblical. The celebration of His incarnation on December 25 is not biblical.

By your logic then celebrating the Incarnation on any day is not biblical. As we don't know the exact day on which Jesus was Incarnated.

​

 

[lionroar0]

There may be nothing pagan at all about the incarnation of Jesus Christ, but there is plenty of pagan origins which has found its way into various celebrations of His incarnation.

Celebrating birthdays, has pagan origins.

The whole Christmass the 25th is a pagan origin is such a stupid argument.

 

[CalmRon]

After looking through this entire thread and watching the debating between hamster and most of everyone else in the thread, I am dismayed that no one came out with this idea yet...

Anyone read romans 14?

v.5- One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

no matter about these small differences, we live to the Lord and we die to the Lord- that should be what is important.

I probably wont be celebrating christmas in any capacity this due to a personal tragedy, I dont believe God frowns on those who chose to do so or those who abstain.

God Bless.

 

[Hammster]

Originally Posted by SpiritualAntiseptic

Try reading the first chapters of Luke. Christmas is indeed biblical.




By your logic then celebrating the Incarnation on any day is not biblical. As we don't know the exact day on which Jesus was Incarnated.

​

I think you miss the point. Since I agree with bbbbbb for the most part, and think I see where he is coming from, I can respond with this: I am not against celebrating Christmas. As I have said before, I celebrate it every year. Our church has services every year to celebrate it. However, there is nothing that says that we have to celebrate it ON December 25th in order to be good, obedient Christians.

 

[bbbbbbb]

pffft.

People who's livelihoods depended on the cycle of the seasons would know which day was the shortest and what night was the longest of the year.

Let's say people who lived in an agrarian culture.

Thanks for helping to make my point - that December 25 (a fact known to multitudes of people long before the birth of Christ) is not the darkest day of the year and, therefore, has no significance in that regard to the incarnation of the Christ.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Originally Posted by SpiritualAntiseptic

Christmas was being celebrated before the bible was even canonized. The Gospels had just been written down when it began.
​

Help me out here, because I'm confused by your post. Did Jesus exist before the Bible or did the Bible exist before Jesus?

Of course, Jesus Christ, as the second person of the Trinity, has existed from eternity to eternity. The Bible, except in an esoteric sense, has not existed from eternity to eternity.

Various cultures had religious celebrations on December 25 prior to the Christian observance of the incarnation of Jesus Christ on that day.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Originally Posted by SpiritualAntiseptic

Try reading the first chapters of Luke. Christmas is indeed biblical.




By your logic then celebrating the Incarnation on any day is not biblical. As we don't know the exact day on which Jesus was Incarnated.

​

Perhaps you have not read my posts. I am not in the least bit opposed to celebrating the incarnation of Jesus Christ on any, or every day of the calendar. I am merely opposed to those who, for various reasons, insist that December 25 is the one and only day of the year for that purpose.

If one wishes to observe various Sabbaths and holy days out of a conscientious reason I, who am not conscientiously bound to that regimen, neither condemn nor commend them for their practice (cf. Colossians 2:16,17).

 

[bbbbbbb]

Celebrating birthdays, has pagan origins.

The whole Christmass the 25th is a pagan origin is such a stupid argument. Only to be accepted by the feeble minded.

Personal attack noted. Please note that I have never stated that " The whole Christmas the 25th is a pagan origin." I merely stated that aspects of the celebration do have undeniable pagan and secular origins. These are entirely unrelated to any Christian aspect of the celebration.

Would you care to provide the Christian origins of every aspect of the Christmas celebration? If so, I will draw up a list for our discussion.

 

[Kristos]

1Th 4:1 Finally then, brethren, we beseech and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that, as ye received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, even as ye do walk,––that ye abound more and more.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

Which holidays? I assume you don't mean the Fourth of July, Armistice Day, Columbus Day, or Valentine's Day. I also doubt you mean the holy days as enumerated in the Penteteuch and subsequently added to by later Jews.

The holidays of the Christian liturgical calender.

So?

You argued that Christmas isn't commanded in the bible. Yes, so? That's not an argument.