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Christians under martial law???

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by youngdisciplectl3, Feb 27, 2012.

  1. youngdisciplectl3

    youngdisciplectl3 Regular Member

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    I have been very confused about what to do if America is ever faced with martial law and/or an oppressive dictatorship to where you can easily be labeled an enemy of the state and sought after to be indefinetly detained or killed.

    Would it be a sin to protect myself and my family from unlawful arrest or being killed by a corrupted military under a dictatorship?

    I know we are to obey authority but America isn't like Rome was. Our ultimate authority beside God is the constitution. And for there to be a dictator in America is to go against the supreme law of the land. Therefore to me, to disobey a dictator in America would be to obey the law of the land which is the constitution which states we have threats both foreign and domestic and forbids a dictatorship but gives us a division in powers, etc...

    So lets say they start sending people off to camps like they did in the Holocaust, would it be wrong for me to pick up arms to protect me and my family from possible death, torture, rape, etc?

    Now, perhaps I shouldn't bear arms if it becomes illegal to be a Christian, but rather flee into the wilderness, and if caught then surrender and assume it was God's will that I be found to be a martyr? Or once found, protect myself and my family by bearing arms even if they are seeking my arrest and death for being a Christian?

    But if it has nothing to do with my religion, then am I ok to protect my life?

    I take this very seriously and don't want to be wrong and be guilty of a great sin. Thank you all for your time. God bless.
     
  2. dayhiker

    dayhiker Mature veteran

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    With all the internal forces in America, I think it will take more Americans to stand up with arms than will do it (at least here in NE cities) to cause the government to back away from attacking you or anyone else who stands up for their rights to a dictator.

    I pray the Military would never fire on their own people in America, nit if they were willing to follow orders to fire on their fellow citizens, I don't see how any group of civilians could stand up against them.

    So no I don't think taking up arms to fight a dictator will protect your family. But I do agree that a dictator will be a forsaking of our founding father's vision for America. Actually we have given up too many rights the fathers wrote for us already. On the positive side, we have some rights they didn't define.

    Take the post office. Its illegal to tamper with a person mail without a court order. Since our emails today are the same in my mind as letters were, it should be illegal to be opened electrically. That's how I see it.
     
  3. WinBySurrender

    WinBySurrender New Member

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    You're laboring under the misconception that "turning the other cheek" means you cannot protect yourself. Utter nonsense! Of course you don't have to meekly surrender to tyranny and dictatorship. God did not mean for us to be Caspar Milquetoasts when it comes to protecting our lives, our property, our faith. Do as your conscience leads you, but as for me, if confronted with tyranny and a forced rejection of this nation's and my personal values, I'll fight to the death.
     
  4. marksman315

    marksman315 Finally in the Fight

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    In my opinion, we should defend ourselves. God always comes first, then family, and then country/work/etc...

    Now if you were planning a pre-emptive strike, then you really would need to prayerful think about it and discuss it with other Christians. There could be some lines crossed based on whatever might be planned. However, defense is never wrong.

    Being wrongfully imprisoned might be something that we may have to allow to happen (if caught). We should not use deadly force to defend ourselves unless our lives are in danger. Paul was wrongfully imprisoned many times, and he never tried to kill his captors. I would suggest escaping possible imprisonment as the best possible option.

    Just remember, if all goes bad, God is still in control, and He would not allow it to happen if it wasn't for greater good that we may never understand.
     
  5. youngdisciplectl3

    youngdisciplectl3 Regular Member

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    Yes I would most certainly avoid being wrongfuly put in prison under a dictatorship, but what if found?

    And to marksman315: don't worry I'm not a crazy man. lol. I'm just talking about defense. No pre-emptive stuff. Heck no.

    Was it sin for our founding fathers to go to war with the British? Was it a sin to kill those men?

    Dayhiker yes our rights are vanishing before our eyes. Just take the Ndaa for fiscal year 2012 for example.

    Luckily 80 percent of our military or more are for Ron Paul who believes in the Constitution.

    Winbysurrender: That's how I feel about the scenario but if it would ever happen I'd just want to make sure it was not a sin. I do not think it is as long as it is self defense, not pre-emptive, there are no other options, etc...

    I pray to God our country is never taken over like Hitler took over. That would suck!
     
  6. dollarsbill

    dollarsbill New Member

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    Christians do not kill others. That is not the message of salvation. That is a message of fear and unbelief.
     
  7. dollarsbill

    dollarsbill New Member

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    Yes!

    Luke 6:27 (NASB)
    27 "But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,
     
  8. dollarsbill

    dollarsbill New Member

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    Perhaps God will bring 'martial law' to cleanse His church? The church is a mess.
     
  9. 1Mind1Spirit

    1Mind1Spirit New Member

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    When it happens I plan on walkin' right through em, while they're tryin' to figure out where they're at.^_^
     
  10. Armistead14

    Armistead14 Newbie

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    First, Christians do kill other people, we've sent 1000's of christian men off to war to put down dictator's on foreign soil. The bible is clear, there is a time for war, etc...Obvious we've had recent wars, Iraq probably a mistake, but think of WW2, christian nations stood up against Hilter, in the end millions died for freedom.

    Maybe your confused on we're to follow the laws of our government even if they're corrupt, etc.?

    It is our God given human instinct to protect ourselves and loved ones, given to humans and animals, it's how we survive.

    We certainly didn't follow the King's law when we revolted as a nation.

    Think of blacks, though most protested peacefully, they were told by law not to do many things, sent to jail, beat on, not protected by government, yet they fought against a government system of racism by defying unfair law.

    Maybe not up north, but down south we're all mostly armed, if our government tried as you suggested they would certainly have a fight down here in the bible belt.
     
  11. dollarsbill

    dollarsbill New Member

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    If killing others is showing them love and mercy, what would hating them be like?

    Luke 6:27 (NASB)
    27 "But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,
     
  12. youngdisciplectl3

    youngdisciplectl3 Regular Member

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    Yeah this is a very interesting coversation. Especialy when we talk about the Revolution. Idk. It gets complicated. Yes we are supposed to love our enemies, but we loved the Jews too and saved them and had to kill Nazi's in the process. (sigh)

    I believe killing isn't wrong when it is self defense. Lots of war in the OT. People being captured, etc...

    Its very interesting to think we sinned by going to war with the British. I never even thought of that war on a moral level, just felt proud like I've been taught to.

    If Christianity becomes illegal I will hide I guess, but if captured I will surrender and proclaim the name of Jesus up until the moment they take my life. No greater honor.
     
  13. marksman315

    marksman315 Finally in the Fight

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    I thought about the American Revolution as well, and it looks like it was sinful for that to be done. I wonder if any of the founding fathers ever thought about it this way.
     
  14. Incariol

    Incariol Newbie

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    Yeah! That's why when soldiers came to drag away St. Polycarp of Antioch, he grabbed an AK-47 and barricaded his house and started pumping those guys full of-

    Oh wait.

    "Taking, therefore, the young slave on Friday about suppertime, the police, mounted and with their customary arms, set out as though "hasting after a robber." And late in the evening they came up with him and found him in bed in the upper room of a small cottage. Even so he could have escaped to another farm, but he did not wish to do so, saying, "God's will be done." Thus, when he heard of their arrival, he went downstairs and talked with them, while those who looked on marveled at his age and constancy, and at how there should be such zeal over the arrest of so old a man. Straightway he ordered food and drink, as much as they wished, to be set before them at that hour, and he asked them to give him an hour so that he might pray undisturbed. And when they consented, he stood and prayed—being so filled with the grace of God that for two hours he could not hold his peace, to the amazement of those who heard. And many repented that they had come to get such a devout old man."
     
  15. WinBySurrender

    WinBySurrender New Member

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    As I said, do as your conscience tells you. I'll follow mine.
     
  16. Incariol

    Incariol Newbie

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    Hm, I'd rather follow the example of my God, I guess.

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 26:47-56&version=ESV

    47 While he was still speaking, Judas came, one of the twelve, and with him a great crowd with swords and clubs, from the chief priests and the elders of the people. 48 Now the betrayer had given them a sign, saying, “The one I will kiss is the man; seize him.” 49 And he came up to Jesus at once and said, “Greetings, Rabbi!” And he kissed him. 50 Jesus said to him, “Friend, do what you came to do.”[a] Then they came up and laid hands on Jesus and seized him. 51 And behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword and struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his ear. 52 Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword. 53 Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then should the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so?” 55 At that hour Jesus said to the crowds, “Have you come out as against a robber, with swords and clubs to capture me? Day after day I sat in the temple teaching, and you did not seize me. 56 But all this has taken place that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled.” Then all the disciples left him and fled.
     
  17. dayhiker

    dayhiker Mature veteran

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    I remember in my 20's trying to put the American revolution into my concept of the Bible. It didn't fit. But its my understanding that preacher after preacher preached American liberty from their pulpits. So clearly they thought what they were doing was Biblical.
     
  18. WinBySurrender

    WinBySurrender New Member

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    Bad example, completely out of context. Got anything else?
     
  19. kellyfritz

    kellyfritz Newbie

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    If a wicked man came into your home and attempted to rape your wife, would you passively turn the other cheek? If someone came into your home and tried to kidnap your children would you sit there idle and allow it to happen? There are many great resources and books that have been written down through the years that discuss this topic. Pacifism is non-Biblical IMO. There was a reason that Jesus did not retaliate. He was on a mission to endure the cross. He had to die. Christians must defend themselves and they must defend life. Self-defense is not a violation of the command not to kill. This falls under the category of Just War. It is silly to think that Christians should not fight and defend themselves.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2012
  20. dollarsbill

    dollarsbill New Member

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    1 Peter 2:21 (NASB)
    21 For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps,