Christians of future prophecy

[Shocker]

Just wanna clear up a distinction that I don't think is being fairly represented by our preterist friends..

Futurist Christians DO NOT believe the 3rd Jewish Temple has any significance whatsoever other than it is a mark in time, and indicator of prophetic fulfillment.

Its no more holy than the donkey Christ rode in on.. (there is probably a good case for the donkey tho)

We believe that the Jews will not seek favor with God for building a temple, rather, we believe it to bring about further judgment for not hearing the Written Word. Enter Daniels 70th week.

If Christ was prophesied in Genesis, and came in Matthew, then there is no reason Daniel cant prophesy the events in the end times, meaning not yet happened.

We believe that the Jews were not given favor when he destroyed the second temple. Hence their dispersion.


The 3rd temple is nothing but a building. A structure, that the Jews who are blind will foolishly think that God will somehow accept this over submission to Christ.

The Jews are blind to the truth we as Christians share in, even tho the same truth is in their Torah.



If a futurist says that sacrifices will give the Jews favor with God, they are ignorant imo to what scripture says so clearly and concisely..


Preterists seem to have us backwards, let the record show, we view the temple in the same way they do..

We just believe it will be built, they don't.

Doesn't matter what they think, the Jews are gonna show you what they think.

 

[Shocker]

Something else to clear up with the preterists..

A person who believes the intrinsically futuristic nature of Prophecy simply believes the Jews, who exist outside the Catholic Church, will build a temple.

This is a defacto response on the Jews part, something the Preterists have zero control over stopping or preventing.

Simply saying it cant or wont, isn't going to convince the Jews that they dont need a temple to know God.


The scripture that we have that alludes to a 3rd temple is clearly coming alive in our life time..

The Global markets are gasping, multiple countries are revolting, regimes are being dismantled and Israel is on the brink of nuclear war, and it will use what it has, as its demonstrated in the past.

If waiving a flag and warning others out of love for what is pressing down on our hearts is wrong, then try me before God.


If the preterists were right, nothing changes, and everything happening in the world is merely coincidence.

If the futurists are right, the preterists are going to watch their pride drain from them before them when they realize just how wrong they were..


What they claim is "Gods word" is impossible.

God has consequences for not heading scripture.

If we dont heed the preterist doctrine, nothing happens.. Literally nothing..(if the preterists were even remotely right, which I hold they are not)

 

[Old Timer]

If the futurists are right, the preterists are going to watch their pride drain from them before them when they realize just how wrong they were..

You're joking right..

They'll come up with some sort of remarkable twist to keep their infallibility intact.

You can count on it.

 

[Shocker]

You're joking right..

They'll come up with some sort of remarkable twist to keep their infallibility intact.

You can count on it.

Satans a crafty fellow..

The only promise in the doctrine of the preterist is to somehow spare themselves the coming tribulation by "thinking" it away and giving in to itchy ears..

On another forum, I am debating black people who are claiming to be Jews because Jesus was black. (long story, its a new movement, among others)

They debate EXACTLY like preterists and use scripture to back their airy claims..

But they fail so hard its pathetic even wasting time on them..

 

[Old Timer]

Most preterists are just liars who say that they're partial preterists in order to post in a Christian forum.

Ask them for a future scripture pertaining to the coming of Christ and you'll see exactly what I mean.

 

[Shocker]

Most preterists are just liars who say that they're partial preterists in order to post in a Christian forum.

Ask them for a future scripture pertaining to the coming of Christ and you'll see exactly what I mean.

You wont see any of them post in my thread about how we agree with them about the significance of the Jewish temple and that we agree that it will not bring the Jews closer to God..

They run from truth, but like wolves are always circling this forum, coming in to take bites at us..

Sall good, Like I said, they wont ban you and let you look like a martyr, they just freeze your account so you can never post.

Theres a convenient clause that forbids us from exposing any religious leader, but they only enforce talk about the pOPE.

Go figure..

 

[Shocker]

You know how to keep a preterist or Amil from posting??

Post something they cant rebut, like I did in my op.

Normally these guys are all over me, but when I call them out for accusing us of beliefs we do not hold you wont see one post..

Question everything they say, and hold them accountable to every last verse of scripture in the Bible.

 

[parousia70]

Just wanna clear up a distinction that I don't think is being fairly represented by our preterist friends..

Futurist Christians DO NOT believe the 3rd Jewish Temple has any significance whatsoever

The 3rd temple is nothing but a building. A structure, that the Jews who are blind will foolishly think that God will somehow accept this over submission to Christ.

If what you say is true, How will a Third Jewish Temple be "The Temple of God" (2 Thess 2:4)

Preterists seem to have us backwards, let the record show, we view the temple in the same way they do..

Except Preterists don't believe a third Jewish temple can be rightfully called "The Temple of God", So there is going to have to be somewhere else for futurists to assert that 2 Thess 2:4 is going to be fulfilled in, because a third Jewish Temple does not fit the prophesy, literally.

 

[ebedmelech]

If what you say is true, How will a Third Jewish Temple be "The Temple of God" (2 Thess 2:4)



Except Preterists don't believe a third Jewish temple can be rightfully called "The Temple of God", So there is going to have to be somewhere else for futurists to assert that 2 Thess 2:4 is going to be fulfilled in, because a third Jewish Temple does not fit the prophesy, literally.

Neither do amillennial saints! The "temple of God" is the church, the body of Christ, which includes ALL Christian Jew or Gentile..."living stones"(as the Apostles Paul and Peter CONSISTENTLY affirm).

Christians are THE "TRUE CIRCUMCISION"...Philippians 3:3:

3 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh,

 

[Shocker]

If what you say is true, How will a Third Jewish Temple be "The Temple of God" (2 Thess 2:4)

The same way the second temple was called the "Temple of God".


God destroyed that too..

Mat_21:12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,


If the Jews returning wasn't Gods will, it couldn't have happened.

Who is the fool who will argue this?


God is sovereign over all existence, over everything good and he knows exactly how things are going to happen.

It is written.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Most preterists are just liars who say that they're partial preterists in order to post in a Christian forum.

Ask them for a future scripture pertaining to the coming of Christ and you'll see exactly what I mean.

1 Corinthians 15:23-24, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, Acts 1:11, Philippians 3:20, Colossians 3:4, Titus 2:12, 1 John 3:2, Revelation 1:4

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ebedmelech]

The same way the second temple was called the "Temple of God".


God destroyed that too..

Mat_21:12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,


If the Jews returning wasn't Gods will, it couldn't have happened.

Who is the fool who will argue this?


God is sovereign over all existence, over everything good and he knows exactly how things are going to happen.

It is written.

The Jews being back in the land doesn't suggest a temple as much as it suggest Romans 11 where God grafts them back in.

I see that as the greatest possiblity.

 

[Old Timer]

1 Corinthians 15:23-24, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, Acts 1:11, Philippians 3:20, Colossians 3:4, Titus 2:12, 1 John 3:2, Revelation 1:4

-CryptoLutheran

Oo-oh.. we may have another futurist on our hands.. get ready to mock him to no end because he believes in the future coming of Christ based upon these scriptures.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Oo-oh.. we may have another futurist on our hands.. get ready to mock him to no end because he believes in the future coming of Christ based upon these scriptures.

You made the statement that Preterists were lying when they called themselves Partial Preterists because they were unable to point to Scriptures that speak of Christ's future coming.

As someone who generally identifies as a Partial Preterist, I provided Scriptures that speak of Christ's future coming.

As is confessed in the Creed, "He will come again to judge the living and the dead"

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Shocker]

You made the statement that Preterists were lying when they called themselves Partial Preterists because they were unable to point to Scriptures that speak of Christ's future coming.

As someone who generally identifies as a Partial Preterist, I provided Scriptures that speak of Christ's future coming.

As is confessed in the Creed, "He will come again to judge the living and the dead"

-CryptoLutheran

A few things need to happen in order for Christ to return.

Or do you believe Jesus is just going to show up one day to separate the wheat and the tares with no signs to indicate this is near, even at the doors?

We have prophecy that must come to pass before the return of Christ, prophecy that is unfolding as we speak.

 

[ViaCrucis]

A few things need to happen in order for Christ to return.

Or do you believe Jesus is just going to show up one day to separate the wheat and the tares with no signs to indicate this is near, even at the doors?

We have prophecy that must come to pass before the return of Christ, prophecy that is unfolding as we speak.

He could come in ten minutes or in ten centuries. I'll know He's returning when the heavens open up and the Son of Man comes descending in glory with the hosts of heaven. Until then, I take Him seriously when He says, "Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. ... So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it."

He comes when He comes and not a moment sooner. On a day and at an hour known only to the Father.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Old Timer]

You made the statement that Preterists were lying when they called themselves Partial Preterists because they were unable to point to Scriptures that speak of Christ's future coming.

As someone who generally identifies as a Partial Preterist, I provided Scriptures that speak of Christ's future coming.

As is confessed in the Creed, "He will come again to judge the living and the dead"

-CryptoLutheran

And you're the first one thus far.. so congratulations on being able to do what so many who do call themselves partial preterists can't do..

And if you believe the verses which you referenced to be future in their application.. then you're more of a futurist than you are a preterist.

What makes you think of yourself as a partial preterist.. Do you believe that the Lord Jesus Christ came in 70AD?

And if so.. Do you think He is coming a third time after that?

 

[Shocker]

He could come in ten minutes or in ten centuries. I'll know He's returning when the heavens open up and the Son of Man comes descending in glory with the hosts of heaven. Until then, I take Him seriously when He says, "Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. ... So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it."

He comes when He comes and not a moment sooner. On a day and at an hour known only to the Father.

-CryptoLutheran

Christ cant come in the next 10 minutes.

That would make him a liar.

Christ isn't a liar.


Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

[Shocker]

The Jews being back in the land doesn't suggest a temple as much as it suggest Romans 11 where God grafts them back in.

I see that as the greatest possiblity.

Romans 11 is a prophecy that was written nearly 2000 years ago..

If you can accept this prophecy as unfulfilled, which clearly you do, then I don't understand why you would think the rest of the prophecy given that has yet to pass wouldn't also share that same gap in time..

I think that if a prophecy has come to pass, there will be no question among those who are saved.

Good thing prophetic discernment isn't a salvific prerequisite.

 

[ViaCrucis]

And you're the first one thus far.. so congratulations on being able to do what so many who do call themselves partial preterists can't do..

And if you believe the verses which you referenced to be future in their application.. then you're more of a futurist than you are a preterist.

What makes you think of yourself as a partial preterist.. Do you believe that the Lord Jesus Christ came in 70AD?

And if so.. Do you think He is coming a third time after that?

No, I don't believe Jesus came in 70 AD. Jesus ascended, and as St. Peter says in Acts 3, "heaven must receive Him until the time for the restoration of all things", that's the Eschaton, the End, the Last Day, etc.

And unlike many Preterists I accept the usual date of authorship for St. John's Apocalypse, around 90-95 AD most likely during the reign of Domitian as Eusebius argues.

But I believe the Apocalypse is chiefly concerned about the events of John's period. It's not a series of predictions concerning the end of the world, but rather deals with the persecutions, trials, and sufferings of the Church under Roman oppression with the intent to preach the victory of Christ over and against all worldly power. The Beast of the Apocalypse isn't a future antichrist, but Roman imperial power; Babylon the Harlot is Rome itself, and the crimson beast she rides is the imperial power based in Rome. Thus the point of the text isn't to give us an "end times" chronology, but to proclaim the victory of God in Christ for the sake of His Church in all ages, consummated at the end when Christ comes in judgment and God makes all things new.

So I'm not much of a Futurist when it comes to the Apocalypse.

I also don't believe that the "last days" mentioned at various places, Acts 2, 2 Timothy, etc refers to some specific "end times" period, but rather the general scope of time between Christ's first advent--His death, resurrection and ascension--and His coming at the end of this age, on the last day, in judgment. Because Christ has come, God's Messiah has come, and He has overthrown the sin, death, hell, and the devil, this age is a dying one that will finally be put to ruin when He returns at the End. We are, therefore, living in the last days, but so were the Apostles, all Christians have been living in these last days, because the coming of the Messiah meant and means these are the final days.

So when it comes to the end of the world, I generally keep it sweet and simple, by confessing the Creeds: "He will come again to judge the living and the dead". For He shall come, the dead will rise, there will be Last Judgment, and then God shall make all things new, life everlasting in the World to Come.

Is there going to be an ultimate "end times" antichrist? I don't know. On the basis of Scripture I believe there have been many antichrists, and there will likely be many more before the End. Is there going to be a Tribulation? Sure, but there's always been Tribulation, it's not a uniquely future thing, it's been going on for two thousand years.

Where I believe lines are crossed is when instead of relying upon Scripture and looking to Scripture entire eschatological systems are developed either entirely out from whole cloth (e.g. Dispensationalism), or otherwise attempt to take current events, scramble them up in a big blender, and then yank out of context passages of Scripture to try and construct the whole thing like a puzzle.

Anyone who claims to have more knowledge than the Lord Jesus Himself, or His Apostles, or the Christian Church generally of the last two thousand years isn't to be believed. Period. It's somewhat that simple for me. And calling it "Bible prophecy" doesn't make it biblical or prophecy. So I find the entire business of "Bible prophecy" to be little more than a marketing campaign to sell books to gullible Christians who have been improperly catechized by their churches to buy books, tapes, and diagrams that aren't worth the paper and plastic they're printed or recorded on.

But "prophecy" is big business. And that is, as far as I'm concerned, all it is. Scripture, to be sure, does contain prophecy; but the difference between what Scripture contains and what "prophecy" peddlers offer is the difference between night and day. Biblical prophecy isn't about finding out X and Y events and trying to match them to de-contextualized bits and pieces of Scripture; but rather about the proclaimed and revealed truth of God for the people of God.

-CryptoLutheran