Christians and sin

[Steeno7]

Nowhere is this passage say or imply that it is talking about present sin that is not confessed and forsaken. That is something that you must impress upon the text that is not there.


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All of your sins were in the future when Jesus shed his blood on the Cross. That is something that must be impressed upon you.

 

[Steeno7]

The goal is holiness (Which is a state of not sinning). For he that does righteousness is righteous (1 John 3:7). He that commits sin is of the devil (1 John 3:8). For one cannot sin also be considered holy. That would be a contradiction in terms. In fact, the will of God for our lives is Sanctification or holiness (1 Thessalonians 4:3). For it is written, "Be ye holy; for I am holy." (1 Peter 1:16). "Follow .... holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14). Jesus said, to TWO people to: "go and sin no more." In fact, the man Jesus healed that he told this to, had also told him that a worse thing would come upon him if he did sin again. Does it sound like Jesus wanted this man to stop sinning? 1 Corinthians 10:13 says, "There has no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted above that you are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that you may be able to bear it." David said he hid His Word (i.e. God's Word) in his heart so that he may not sin against Him (Psalm 119:11). 1 Peter 4:1 says they that have suffered in the flesh have CEASED (stopped) from sin. Galatians 5:24 says that they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. Revelation 14:4-5 says that the 144,000 were without fault before the throne of God. This means we can also be without fault before God, too. For the Scriptures say, with God all things are possible.


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God alone is holy.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

All of your sins were in the future when Jesus shed his blood on the Cross. That is something that must be impressed upon you.

Okay, so let me get this straight. Are you telling me that a believer can continue to murder, rape, hate, fornicate, do drugs, steal, and lie and still be saved as long as they have a belief on Jesus as their Savior?


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[Bible Highlighter]

God alone is holy.

Yes, I agree with that. I am just a clar jar to be smashed. I am nothing. Christ (God) is everything. God alone is Holy and good. But we are supposed to submit to God and allow His holiness or righteous deeds to flow thru our life whereby we can be made holy (by His working within us) and thereby fulfill what is written,

"Be ye holy; for I am holy."

Why?

Well, because Scripture says,

Follow ... holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).


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[Steeno7]

Yes, I agree with that. I am just a clar jar to be smashed. I am nothing. Christ (God) is everything. God alone is Holy and good. But we are supposed to submit to God and allow His holiness or righteous deeds to flow thru our life whereby we can be made holy (by His working within us) and thereby fulfill what is written,

"Be ye holy; for I am holy."

And...

Follow ... holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14)

And how do His righteous deeds flow through your life?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Ezekiel 36:26-27 gives a glimpse into that a little bit.

26 "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my judgments, and do them."​

This is the process of being born again which takes place when a person repents of their sins (i.e. the Sinner's Prayer) and they then forsake or turn away from their evil or wicked ways. When a person is changed spiritually, then God lives within them and He helps to move within them to walk in His statutes, etc.


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[Steeno7]

Okay, so let me get this straight. Are you telling me that a believer can continue to murder, rape, hate, fornicate, do drugs, steal, and lie and still be saved as long as they have a belief on Jesus as their Savior.

LOL. That's number 10 on the list of how to spot a legalist......

10. They use the phrase, “You mean to tell me … ” a lot. Then they create worst case salvation scenarios of those who claim to be Christians, but abuse the grace of God. “You mean to tell me that someone can be saved and still … ?”

 

[Mister_Al]

The scriptures you used to make a your point actually support mine. Once God took you out of Adam and put you into Christ you are freed from condemnation (death) and are righteous before God. In a nutshell, that's salvation.

You also don't follow the prince of the power of the air (Ephesians 2:2) any more but are now led by the Holy Spirit. And if you are led by the Spirit of God then you are a son of God.

John 3:18 Amplified Bible (AMP)
18 Whoever believes and has decided to trust in Him [as personal Savior and Lord] is not judged [for this one, there is no judgment, no rejection, no condemnation]; but the one who does not believe [and has decided to reject Him as personal Savior and Lord] is judged already [that one has been convicted and sentenced], because he has not believed and trusted in the name of the [One and] only begotten Son of God [the One who is truly unique, the only One of His kind, the One who alone can save him].

In regard to Christians staying in sin, I would just like to point out that God's chastisement is also the leading of the Holy Spirit. Any Christian that has ever been corrected by God will understand why His children can't live in sin.

Alan

 

[Bible Highlighter]

LOL. That's number 10 on the list of how to spot a legalist......

10. They use the phrase, “You mean to tell me … ” a lot. Then they create worst case salvation scenarios of those who claim to be Christians, but abuse the grace of God. “You mean to tell me that someone can be saved and still … ?”

It's not funny. Someone just admitted to saying, "yes" in reply to such a statement just today.
You can check out that post here:

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...nce-and-for-all.7920118/page-17#post-69210951

Oh, and this is not the first person I have encountered that believes this way, either.
I have talked with several online who believe this way and even talked with someone in person who believed they could mow down a crowd of people (and still be saved) while doing so.

In fact, here is a man who murdered several people and then killed himself thinking he was saved by Eternal Security.

http://eternalsecurity.us/george_sodini.htm

Here is a man who committed suicide thinking he would be saved by Eternal Security.

http://www.behindthebadge.net/osas/osas33.html

The thing is, I do not see much difference between this extreme form of Eternal Security and other lesser forms of Eternal Security because they all make an allowance for sin. Granted, one is more extreme than the other. But a justification for committing sin (even if it is saying you will sin even once in the future) is still a testimony of desiring to do evil with God approving of it (Because He is going to save you despite such a declaration of doing evil). But God is not unrighteous. He cannot agree with a person's sin.


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[Steeno7]

It's not funny. Someone just admitted to saying, "yes" in reply to such a statement just today.
You can check out that post here:

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...nce-and-for-all.7920118/page-17#post-69210951

Oh, and this is not the first person I have encountered that believes this way, either.
I have talked with several online who believe this way and even talked with someone in person who believed they could mow down a crowd of people (and still be saved) while doing so.

In fact, here is a man who murdered several people and then killed himself thinking he was saved by Eternal Security.

http://eternalsecurity.us/george_sodini.htm

Here is a man who committed suicide thinking he would be saved by Eternal Security.

http://www.behindthebadge.net/osas/osas33.html

The thing is, I do not see much difference between both versions of Eternal Security because they both make excuses for sin. Granted, one is more extreme than the other. But a justification for committing sin (even if it is saying you will sin even once in the future) is still a testimony of desiring to do evil with God approving of it (Because He is going to save you despite such a declaration of doing evil).


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You just confirmed number 10 again. Bravo!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You just confirmed number 10 again. Bravo!

Did you look at any of the links or did you read anything I had to say or are you just here to insult me?


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[Steeno7]

Ezekiel 36:26-27 gives a glimpse into that a little bit.

26 "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my judgments, and do them."​

This is the process of being born again which takes place when a person repents of their sins (i.e. the Sinner's Prayer) and they then forsake or turn away from their evil or wicked ways. When a person is changed spiritually, then God lives within them and He helps to move within them to walk in His statutes, etc.

See what you did there? You went from allowing God and HIS holiness and righteous deeds to flow through your life, to, God just helping YOU to do HIS deeds. That's called......confusion.

 

[Steeno7]

Did you both looking at any of the links or anything I had to say or are you just here to insult me?

I'm correcting you. Surely you want to be corrected, right?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The scriptures you used to make a your point actually support mine. Once God took you out of Adam and put you into Christ you are freed from condemnation (death) and are righteous before God. In a nutshell, that's salvation.

You also don't follow the prince of the power of the air (Ephesians 2:2) any more but are now led by the Holy Spirit. And if you are led by the Spirit of God then you are a son of God.

When you read Ephesians 2:2, you have to read the part that says,

"Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world,"
(Ephesians 2:2).

Verse 3 says the same thing.

"Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."
(Ephesians 2:3).

In other words, Paul is saying we USED to be sinners but we are not that way anymore. Sin was a part of our old life and it is not a part of our new life.

John 3:18 Amplified Bible (AMP)
18 Whoever believes and has decided to trust in Him [as personal Savior and Lord] is not judged [for this one, there is no judgment, no rejection, no condemnation]; but the one who does not believe [and has decided to reject Him as personal Savior and Lord] is judged already [that one has been convicted and sentenced], because he has not believed and trusted in the name of the [One and] only begotten Son of God [the One who is truly unique, the only One of His kind, the One who alone can save him].

In regard to Christians staying in sin, I would just like to point out that God's chastisement is also the leading of the Holy Spirit. Any Christian that has ever been corrected by God will understand why His children can't live in sin.

Alan

But see, Chastement is not a real deterrent against those who make excuses that they will always sin in this life (So as to serve both God and sin) (i.e. they can have their cake and eat it, too).

Chastisment is only for those who have strayed away for a short time but yet they also honestly have a pure enough in heart to want to overcome their sin and put it behind them for good (When they do repent of their sins and come back to the Lord). For no believer who is truly born again desires to remain in their sin but they desire to put it away for good and walk uprightly with their Lord. For the moment one says we will always sin is to send the wrong message to others (Even if you are saying that a believer will sin less and less in this life). For just saying that a person does not need to worry about their good standing before God because of a belief on Jesus is in fact giving that person a license to sin unless you tell them that sin can separate them from their Lord. For if you take away the consequences of something, people are going to do that thing that is wrong. For example: If there was a Law that was passed that said we can go as fast as we want on the high way, what do you think is going to happen? More people are going to speed now because there are no more consequences to speeding on the high way anymore.

Anyways, the "belief" mentioned in John chapter 3 is in context to one's faith. Faith is defined as both a belief and as an action according to Hebrews 11. James 2:17 says faith without works is a dead kind of faith.


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[Bible Highlighter]

See what you did there? You went from allowing God and HIS holiness and righteous deeds to flow through your life, to, God just helping YOU to do HIS deeds. That's called......confusion.

Okay, so who does the "good work" in a believer's life? Is it God? Or is it the believer? Well, Scripture tells us that God (Christ) is the One who does the work within a believer.

Philippians 1:6
Philippians 1:11
Philippians 2:13
Philippians 4:13
1 Corinthians 15:10
Hebrews 12:1, 2
Hebrews 13:21
Isaiah 26:12
1 John 4:12
Galatians 5:22-24 (cf. Matthew 7:16-18, Matthew 19:17)
John 15:5
Ezekiel 36:26-27

For that is why the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus (Revelation 4:10). For the crowns they received for their good work was all the result of Christ working in them.

Yeah, but doesn't a believer do the work, too? Now, yes, it is true; A believer is created unto Christ Jesus for good works (Ephesians 2:10); And a believer is indeed held accountable by their "good works" here upon this Earth at a Judgment. But we must also realize that true believers are not ultimately doing these "good works" alone or of their own power, though. For in 1 Corinthians 15:10 Paul said that he labored more than all of his brethren, yet he said it was not him that labored but it was the grace of God that was within him. So true believer's are just choosing to allow God's "good work" to flow within them or not.


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[Steeno7]

Okay, so who does the "good work" in a believer's life? Is it God? Or is it the believer? Well, Scripture tells us that God (Christ) is the One who does the work within a believer.

Philippians 1:6
Philippians 1:11
Philippians 2:13
Philippians 4:13
1 Corinthians 15:10
Hebrews 12:1, 2
Hebrews 13:21
Isaiah 26:12
1 John 4:12
Galatians 5:22, 23, 24 (cf. Matthew 7:16, 18, Matthew 19:17)
John 15:5
Ezekiel 36:26, 27

For that is why the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus (Revelation 4:10). For the crowns they received for their good work was all the result of Christ working in them.

Yeah, but doesn't a believer do the work, too? Now, yes, it is true; A believer is created unto Christ Jesus for good works (Ephesians 2:10); And a believer is indeed held accountable by their "good works" here upon this Earth at a Judgment. But we must also realize that true believers are not ultimately doing these "good works" alone or of their own power, though. For in 1 Corinthians 15:10 Paul said that he labored more than all of his brethren, yet he said it was not him that labored but it was the grace of God that was within him. So true believer's are just choosing to allow God's "good work" to flow within them or not.

Well, make up your mind already.

What makes a good work a good work?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Well, make up your mind already.

What makes a good work a good work?

Did you look at the verses?
My guess is that you haven't.
There is no contradiction in what I stated.
Please re-read carefully what I wrote.
And please carefully look at the verses, too.
In fact, please tell me what you think of those verses I listed.


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[Steeno7]

Did you look at the verses?
My guess is that you haven't.
There is no contradiction in what I stated.
Please re-read carefully what I wrote.
And please carefully look at the verses, too.
In fact, please tell me what you think of those verses I listed.


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You are an exercise in contradiction. I asked you a question.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You are an exercise in contradiction. I asked you a question.

And I gave you an answer. Re-read what I had written in my post because you are seeing a contradiction where none exists.
Also, again. Did you look at the verses in that list?
Yes, or no?

Also, you did not answer many things that I wanted answered. You did not explain verses that I put forth that refute Eternal Security. You did not examine any of the links I provided that exposes the darkness of Eternal Security. In fact, most times I wanted you to just to discuss the Scriptures, you merely insulted me instead.


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[Steeno7]

And I gave you an answer. Re-read what I had written in my post because you are seeing a contradiction where none exists.
Also, again. Did you look at the verses in that list?
Yes, or no?

Also, you did not answer many things that I wanted answered. You did not explain verses that I put forth that refute Eternal Security. You did not examine any of the links I provided that exposes the darkness of Eternal Security. In fact, most times I wanted you to just to discuss the Scriptures, you merely insulted me instead.


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No time for bunny holes to nowhere...........or your playing the victim........