christians and guns

[Bethany35]

hi
I thought it might be more important to broach this topic.
Does owning and using guns work with Christian morality & ethics? Were humans not taught to be beings of peace?
It seems to me there's a lot of proud gun ownship and it worries me. I can understand if everyone else had one you might consider one for safety. But if you did, do you keep it in a safe box, locked up for emergency, or is it one that anyone can use?
And should all police carry guns? I hear that there is a huge issues in America of police breaking the rules and performing armed robberies themselves. Aren't they there for the protection of citizens?
Am probably going to go down in flames for standing against gun mobs but surely something has to be done.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

Different cultures. There's nothing that can be done about gun ownership in America, it's just that simple. I think those in the UK just don't recognize that when a country is built on a certain idea, you can't just turn it over to something else, especially one that has over 300 million people in it and has seen a lot of war in it's short time.

 

[Gordon Wright]

Guns didn't exist in Biblical times, but swords did. Jesus said - in certain circumstances - sell your cloak to buy a sword.

 

[abysmul]

I find nothing in the Bible that would make me consider not owning a firearm. I have no issues with it, clearly, as I do own firearms.

 

[quatona]

Different cultures. There's nothing that can be done about gun ownership in America, it's just that simple.

I´m not understanding this. What do you mean - "nothing can be done"? The things that could be done are obvious.

I think those in the UK just don't recognize that when a country is built on a certain idea,

Is America built on the idea of owning guns?

you can't just turn it over to something else,

Again, I have problems understanding this "you can´t". I would understand a "I don´t want to" or "the majority doesn´t want to". But "you can´t"? What would prevent you from changing something if you wanted to?

 

[quatona]

One thing I don´t understand about "Christians and guns":
Why are so many Christians - who are otherwise emphasizing that it´s all about spirituality and how they are not of this world etc. - so committed to a to such a worldly, material item, and act and speak as though spiritual values and ideas ("freedom") depend on posssessing it?

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

I´m not understanding this. What do you mean - "nothing can be done"? The things that could be done are obvious.

Then why hasn't it been done?

Is America built on the idea of owning guns?

America is built on the idea of independence and the individual. People don't want to be deadheading to socialism like that UK is doing.

You ever notice that veterans of the military are virtually all pro-gun? Why do you think that is? Do you know what there most popular flag is?

Anti-guns is a fool's facade. The UK can bash all they want, but if it weren't for Americans they'd be having Nazi flags hanging outside their windows right now.

 

[quatona]

Then why hasn't it been done?

What kind of question is this in response to mine?
Are you suggesting that the fact that something hasn´t yet been changed proves or at least indicates that it can´t be changed?
I guess it hasn´t been done because those who make the decisions didn´t want to change it in the past.

America is built on the idea of independence and the individual.

So it´s not built on the idea of owning guns.

People don't want to be deadheading to socialism like that UK is doing.

This is empty rhethorics. You have no clue what socialism is, or you have no idea about the UK or both. But that´s besides the point, anyways.
I do understand "people don´t want to". I don´t understand "you can´t".

You ever notice that veterans of the military are virtually all pro-gun?

No, but it doesn´t surprise me. I guess abortion doctor are virtually all pro choice, either.
But what´s the relevance of this fact for my question? Is America governed by its veterans?

Why do you think that is?

I don´t know, and at this moment I don´t care, because I don´t see how seeking for the causes of the preferences of veterans is going to substantiate the claim "you can´t".

Do you know what there most popular flag is?

So?

Anti-guns is a fool's facade. The UK can bash all they want, but if it weren't for Americans they'd be having Nazi flags hanging outside their windows right now.

Seems like you are losing contenance. I just asked a question.
I´m not sure, though, that America won WWII because private persons had guns under their pillows back at home. But who knows? [/quote]

 

[bhsmte]

One thing I don´t understand about "Christians and guns":
Why are so many Christians - who are otherwise emphasizing that it´s all about spirituality and how they are not of this world etc. - so committed to a to such a worldly, material item, and act and speak as though spiritual values and ideas ("freedom") depend on posssessing it?

Especially with the old; turn the other cheek type of deal and love your enemies.

With that said, I do believe, the gun culture in the United States is unique and very strong. Guns are glorified and have been for a long time, from cowboys and Indians to one of the first toys a boy wanted when I grew up was a cap pistol and holster.

Movies, television shows and video games are absolutely saturated with gun violence and I can't see how this long culture from the wild west to now, can't impact a society.

 

[quatona]

Especially with the old; turn the other cheek type of deal and love your enemies.

Yeah, but even without it...

With that said, I do believe, the gun culture in the United States is unique and very strong. Guns are glorified and have been for a long time, from cowboys and Indians to one of the first toys a boy wanted when I grew up was a cap pistol and holster.

Movies, television shows and video games are absolutely saturated with gun violence and I can't see how this long culture from the wild west to now, can't impact a society.

That much is for sure, and it seems to me that - hypothetically - an sudden and immediate adoption of the Western European way would not only not have the same good results, but would also be a dangerous thing to do. Such things take time.
(The thorough change of attitude towards smoking - and the "infringement on invidvidual freedom" that it comes with - wasn´t fathomable a couple of decades ago, either.)

 

[bhsmte]

Yeah, but even without it...


That much is for sure, and it seems to me that - hypothetically - an sudden and immediate adoption of the Western European way would not only not have the same good results, but would also be a dangerous thing to do. Such things take time.
(The thorough change of attitude towards smoking - and the "infringement on invidvidual freedom" that it comes with - wasn´t fathomable a couple of decades ago, either.)

Yes. The culture of guns in the US, is deeply embedded on our history and as I stated, they are glorified in the avenues in which I mentioned. It takes time to change culture, a long time.

One thing I always got a kick out of though, is Hollywood types are typically the one's who tend to be the most vocal about guns, yet, they keep making movies and television shows, that displays guns and shooting people as common place.

I always found this highly hypocritical.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

What kind of question is this in response to mine?
Are you suggesting that the fact that something hasn´t yet been changed proves or at least indicates that it can´t be changed?
I guess it hasn´t been done because those who make the decisions didn´t want to change it in the past.

Every time there is a mass shooting, the first thing Americans do is raid the gun shops. The First Lady tried to propose gun control and was denied so hard that she came out in literal tears. The UK likes to bark it's morality at everyone, guess what? We told them to mind their own business and get taken over again.

We don't want it.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Why are so many Christians - who are otherwise emphasizing that it´s all about spirituality and how they are not of this world etc. - so committed to a to such a worldly, material item, and act and speak as though spiritual values and ideas ("freedom") depend on posssessing it?

Insert "car" in place of "gun".

 

[SteveB28]

Different cultures. There's nothing that can be done about gun ownership in America, it's just that simple. I think those in the UK just don't recognize that when a country is built on a certain idea, you can't just turn it over to something else, especially one that has over 300 million people in it and has seen a lot of war in it's short time.

Nonsense. Your nation once endorsed the slavery of other human beings. You amended your Constitution to end that.

Do it again.

 

[SteveB28]

And, with the exception of the population numbers, you could have been describing my country of Australia.

And we are doing much better without the proliferation of weapons we once used to have.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Nonsense. Your nation once endorsed the slavery of other human beings. You amended your Constitution to end that.

Do it again.

No reason to. There's a perception problem here fostered by the media and others. There's no real national gun problem, which is what a Constitutional Amendment would address.

Most people understand that 'stuff' happens, and we shouldn't overreact.

 

[SteveB28]

No reason to. There's a perception problem here fostered by the media and others. There's no real national gun problem, which is what a Constitutional Amendment would address.

Ostrich mentality.

The gun massacres in your country do not occur in just one or two states - they happen all over. You have a national problem, no matter how hard you try to ignore it.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Ostrich mentality.

The gun massacres in your country do not occur in just one or two states - they happen all over. You have a national problem, no matter how hard you try to ignore it.

It's the anti's that have the ostrich mentality; burying their heads and talking out of their backsides.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Ostrich mentality.

The gun massacres in your country do not occur in just one or two states - they happen all over. You have a national problem, no matter how hard you try to ignore it.

If it's a national problem someone better tell the people about it. They act as if nothing of the sort is happening, anywhere.

 

[SteveB28]

It's the anti's that have the ostrich mentality; burying their heads and talking out of their backsides.

Yes, I am sure they are just imagining those 40+ gun massacres that have occurred this year alone!