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Christians and "civil unions"

Discussion in 'Fundamentalist Christians' started by jlujan69, Jul 18, 2010.

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  1. jlujan69

    jlujan69 New Member

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    While marriage is an institution that the Bible clearly speaks of, civil unions isn't. Since we can count fewer people as believers with each passing year, and since more of these same people are wanting to live in ungodly relationships and be given some kind of legal recognition, can we as believers, support, or at least not openly oppose, a practical measure designed to address this unfortunate change in demographics. IOW, while staunchly opposing marriage between same gendered people, how about another status so long as it's never to be considered a marriage?
     
  2. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

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    It works for me. As far as I'm concerned, there should be little difference between the way we treat homosexual relationships and fornication. The only difference is that we shouldn't even consider counseling homosexuals to "marry."
     
  3. sealacamp

    sealacamp New Member

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    People can get married no matter what their situation may be, at least as far as the government is concerned. But if God does not authorize it or sanction it then it is illegitimate which makes the union invalid. As far as I am concerned they can call it what ever they like, I will never accept it and never agree that there is something wrong with rebelling against God. All of us sin because we are imperfect. But there is a big difference between being imperfect and saying that my imperfections are not imperfections therefore I will glory in my imperfections and everyone else must agree that my imperfections are right and good. This is what the perverted community is doing and they have gone so far and to try to criminalize anyone that speaks out against them. This was going on thousands of years ago and have been foretold to happen again. It is underway and I can see the clock getting closer to midnight. Stand true no matter what may be going on. Those that persevere will be saved.

    Sealacamp
     
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  4. General Mung Beans

    General Mung Beans Resident Conservative Christian

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    That's pretty much my view. Like fornication or pornography or adultery its a bad thing but we can't ban homosexuality unless 1) you want a law that's never enforced or 2) you put millions of people in prison. Plus I think homosexuals being "out" is better since than Christians can minister to them and show them their ways are sin while if they were "closeted" we wouldn't be able to that.
     
  5. 357magnum

    357magnum AKA: Tom - Saved By Grace

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    Bluntly, I oppose it all, and I will not call evil good.

    Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
     
  6. Stan53

    Stan53 Senior Member

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    I think first wee need to work out what is a marriage. The Bible defines marriage as being between a man and a woman. That is it is a union between a man and a woman. A man shall leave his mother and his father and cling to his wife and they will be come one flesh.
    The government defines it as a covenant. It covenants with a man and a woman.
    What does God say? How does he define this covenant? The Bible is silent. What it does say is that "what God has ordained let no one put/pull asunder", what ever that means.
    There is a section out there that suggest that if same gender relationships are legalised under government that we all ought to rip up our marriage license.
    Which brings me to another thought. The government grants you a license to get married.
    Interesting.
     
  7. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

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    "Civil unions" wouldn't be calling it "good." "Gay marriage" would be.
     
  8. 357magnum

    357magnum AKA: Tom - Saved By Grace

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    I stated my opinion correctly the first time - I oppose it all - including civil unions. Legitimizing abomination in the eyes of God is calling evil good. Silence on the issue amounts to the same thing. If you disagree, we can agree to disagree.
     
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  9. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

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    I agree that legitimizing what they do is wrong, but "civil unions" to me are not legitimizing it. "Civil union" makes no moral statement. "Marriage" does.
     
  10. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    "Civil unions" as defined in this day and age is two people of the same gender or differnt genders (i.e.; shacking up for a man and women) living together as though they were married.

    When the world says it is "OK" and we as Christians turn a blind eye, or a deaf ear to this, we are doing exactly the opposite of what Paul said here:

    "And be not conformed to this world:" -Rom. 12:2 (KJV)

    Just because certain states, or laws are passed saying this is acceptable does not mean I have to accept it.

    My viewpoint may not be the "politically correct" one, and it may not be the accepted one, but it is the scriptural one, and to me, that is what counts.

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  11. Stan53

    Stan53 Senior Member

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    I think we need to be careful not to call something not sin that God says is. Where our Episcopalian brethren in North America agree or not, same gender union is an abomination in God's eyes according to His word both Old and New Testaments. If we say that same gender unions are not sin we are in error and are heretics.
    Civil unions are another matter. This brings us back to what is marriage in God's eyes. What does He define as a marriage and how do we put that in act here? And where do we see that in His word and how do we reflect that in life? As I said in my previous post, we have a marriage that is a covenant between our Government, one man and one woman. It is in the form of a license issued by a civil government. How do we transpose that in the church? How does God do this with us?
    Like I said same s_x union, whether civil or sanctioned by the church are sin. If we don't like it, take it up with God.
     
  12. desmalia

    desmalia sounds like somebody's got a case of the mondays

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    Well said, Dean. :thumbsup:
     
  13. Izdaari

    Izdaari Episcopalutheran (TEC/ELCA)

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    It isn't government's job to make everything that's sinful illegal. Our government is authorized by the Constitution to handle foreign relations, maintain order and adjudicate disputes... and not very much else. Policing morality, when no one's life, property or civil rights are violated, is not among its legitimate functions. Would you really want Obama, Reid and Pelosi setting a standard of right and wrong for us, and basing laws upon it?
     
  14. MatthewDiscipleofGod

    MatthewDiscipleofGod Senior Veteran

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    Morality is always being regulated. Homosexuality has negative effects on the homosexual, his or her partners and society as a whole. Also, people "like" Obama pass laws that require me to wear a seat belt even though it is just my life that is put in danger.
     
  15. Izdaari

    Izdaari Episcopalutheran (TEC/ELCA)

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    Aye, the camel has his nose in the tent. Should he be allowed to put it a little bit further in? I say no.

    Camel Nose In The Tent: Camel Tales & Stories.
     
  16. General Mung Beans

    General Mung Beans Resident Conservative Christian

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    If we banned homosexuality and it was an enforced law homosexuals more likely than not would remain "in the closet" and thus Christians would not be able to witness to them.
     
  17. Edouard

    Edouard Regular Member

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    Something in this post I hope we not forget.

    Remember who Christ ministered too.

    Mary Magdalene.

    Zacheus a tax collector.

    Saul the apostle who killed how many christians before conversion?

    Jesus came to show love and compassion. However, did he not walk into the temple and turn the tables over in God's house/temple because they were cheating, stealing....ect..

    In all things the presence of God, the power of the Holy Spirit and Christ in us to speak daily.

    Edouard.
    Grace and peace be with you brothers and sisters.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2010
  18. MatthewDiscipleofGod

    MatthewDiscipleofGod Senior Veteran

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    How about this. We ban homosexuality which many states have in the past and as far as I know some of those states never repealed those laws. Then we can just witness to everyone! I don't go around looking for homosexuals to witness too. Every sinner is in need of the Savior. I don't discriminate.
     
  19. desmalia

    desmalia sounds like somebody's got a case of the mondays

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    That's what I was thinking as well. A person does not need to be a openly/practicing/proud gay in order for them to be witnessed to. People are damned to hell and are in need of Christ, whether gay or strait. Changing laws in order to increasingly accommodate sinful lifestyle is just not good for anyone.
     
  20. Redneck12

    Redneck12 Newbie

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    Everybody in this debate seems to assume government has the right to define and enforce marriage. However, this wasnt always the case, at least here in NYS. Except for a few years of issuing marriage licenses in the 1700s, the State had nothing whatever to do with marriage until about 1890. Marriages were church and local matters.

    Since God ordained marriage, my opinion is all levels of government should "butt out", except for a law setting a minimum age.

    The Civil Unions idea was so homosexuals get the same government benefits that married couples get - something which could easily be corrected by not basing government benefits on marital status.
     
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