"Christian"

[Ken Rank]

cre·tin (krēt’n) n.
1. A person afflicted with cretinism.
Slang: An idiot.
[French crétin, from French dialectal, deformed and mentally person found in certain Alpine valleys, from Vulgar Latin *christiānus, Christian, human being, poor fellow, from Latin Chrīstiānus, Christian; see Christian.] Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2009 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.

The word “watchmen” is the Hebrew word NATSARIM, and means guardians, protectors, preservers, and also means “branches”, as in “descendants”. Immediately, we see the connection with Yahusha’s words about Him being the Root, and His students the “branches,” the off-spring of His teachings. The name by which most Believers are called has no Greek roots; the Hebrew roots of our name are profound.

With respect to the fine folks at the American Heritage Dictionary, they are wrong. The word Mashiach means anointed. Many have been Mashiach (David for example), and then there is haMashiach, the Messiah... the anointed one. In Greek there is a word for anointed, Christos, which transliterated into English became "Christ." So Christ means anointed.

The "ian" ending means "of or belonging to." An optician is one who belongs to the field of optics, a pediatrician is one who belongs to the field of pediatrics, and so forth. So an "ian" ending added to "Christ" gives us "Christian," which means, "Of or belonging to the anointed one." If you belong to Yeshua haMashiach, Jesus Christ... whatever you know him as... then being called a "Christian" is appropriate. Those that nay-say and create issues over words not realizing they are merely symbols used to point to people or things and that are defined by the time and culture they are in use.... are untrained and probably should be avoided!

 

[pat34lee]

With respect to the fine folks at the American Heritage Dictionary, they are wrong. The word Mashiach means anointed. Many have been Mashiach (David for example), and then there is haMashiach, the Messiah... the anointed one. In Greek there is a word for anointed, Christos, which transliterated into English became "Christ." So Christ means anointed.

How many messiahs do you think there have been then? Thousands counting the priests who were annointed? I don't think so. Messiah is an office, as is king. The Greek annointed could be any god, demigod or idol though.

 

[Ken Rank]

How many messiahs do you think there have been then? Thousands counting the priests who were annointed? I don't think so. Messiah is an office, as is king. The Greek annointed could be any god, demigod or idol though.

I agree... that is why I tried to differentiate by using haMashiach (the messiah) in terms of Yeshua because anyone who has been anointed is by the definition of the word, messiah. And, like you said, a demi-god or idol could have been anointed for something. That is "messiah" too... not THE messiah, but messiah! That messes with people's paradigms though... gotta be careful!

 

[pat34lee]

I agree... that is why I tried to differentiate by using haMashiach (the messiah) in terms of Yeshua because anyone who has been anointed is by the definition of the word, messiah. And, like you said, a demi-god or idol could have been anointed for something. That is "messiah" too... not THE messiah, but messiah! That messes with people's paradigms though... gotta be careful!

Paradigms are too much like traditions to me. I tend to look for the roots, and if they are rotten, I point it out. It isn't always popular because a lot of what people believe is theological, not biblical.

 

[Open Heart]

The word “christianos” (Latin, Christianus) was a term of scorn, traced back through a related word which history never “revised”.

The term originally was originally one of derision because Christians were scorned. The term lost its negative connotation pretty quickly first among Christians (Peter claimed to be a Christian, for example), and then in general as Christianity spread. The only people who use it to mock today are anti-theists like Dawkins, and they use ALL religious terms to mock.

 

[Ken Rank]

Paradigms are too much like traditions to me.

True, but neither are bad in and of themselves. A tradition is something passed down, so it can be good or bad. A paradigm is the mindset/perspective we are "born into" or develop through life experiences. It too can be good or bad, but we all, including you my new friend, have a bias.

I tend to look for the roots, and if they are rotten, I point it out. It isn't always popular because a lot of what people believe is theological, not biblical.

I do too, and we should, but we also have to take into consideration where others are at this time. A baby can't eat steak and that is why I said we need to be careful because just "throwing a truth out there" (not saying you said that) can actually cause damage.

Peace.
Ken

 

[Ken Rank]

The term originally was originally one of derision because Christians were scorned. The term lost its negative connotation pretty quickly first among Christians (Peter claimed to be a Christian, for example), and then in general as Christianity spread.

1 Peter 4:16 But if one suffers as a Christian, do not let him be ashamed, but to glorify God in this respect.

I think you are correct, it was most likely a derisive term and those early Christians (who were Jews) embraced it. Jews do have a tendency to do this. In fact, even the term "Jew" began as a derisive term that the Jews embraced and made their own.

 

[Open Heart]

a lot of what people believe is theological, not biblical.

You contrast theological with Biblical as if they are different, when in fact theology is based on the biblical. For example, "God is Creator" is theology. It is also Biblical, nicht wahr?

 

[Open Heart]

1 Peter 4:16 But if one suffers as a Christian, do not let him be ashamed, but to glorify God in this respect.

I think you are correct, it was most likely a derisive term and those early Christians (who were Jews) embraced it. Jews do have a tendency to do this. In fact, even the term "Jew" began as a derisive term that the Jews embraced and made their own.

Yeap, yeap.

 

[Ken Rank]

You contrast theological with Biblical as if they are different, when in fact theology is based on the biblical. For example, "God is Creator" is theology. It is also Biblical, nicht wahr?

Good point but I think I understand where Pat was going. We have theology, the study of God by a loving student... and then we have the institution of seminary where, most have a great heart I am sure... but the study is placed above the one being studied. That is where the line should be drawn... even the study of God CAN become something of an idol when the study of supplants the worship of....

Blessings!
Ken

 

[Open Heart]

Good point but I think I understand where Pat was going. We have theology, the study of God by a loving student... and then we have the institution of seminary where, most have a great heart I am sure... but the study is placed above the one being studied. That is where the line should be drawn... even the study of God CAN become something of an idol when the study of supplants the worship of....

I agree!

 

[Elihoenai]

The "ian" ending means "of or belonging to." An optician is one who belongs to the field of optics, a pediatrician is one who belongs to the field of pediatrics, and so forth. So an "ian" ending added to "Christ" gives us "Christian," which means, "Of or belonging to the anointed one." If you belong to Yeshua haMashiach, Jesus Christ... whatever you know him as... then being called a "Christian" is appropriate.

The Common Man is the Carnal Man of Adam and is inherited from the greatest of them to the least of them of the world.

The Rare and Precious Man is the Spiritual Man from heaven and is inherited from the Father through the Son.

Are the mainstream denominational and non-denominational churches/assemblies carnal churches/assemblies?


1 Corinthians 15:47 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

47 The first man [is] out of the earth, earthy; the second man [is] the Lord out of heaven;



John 4:29-30 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

29 `Come, see a man, who told me all things -- as many as I did; is this the Christ?'

30 They went forth therefore out of the city, and were coming unto him.

 

[pat34lee]

You contrast theological with Biblical as if they are different, when in fact theology is based on the biblical. For example, "God is Creator" is theology. It is also Biblical, nicht wahr?

Biblical is written plainly, such as "I am the way, the truth and the life".

Theology is not always plain, and must be inferred from scripture. I would post an example, but most theologies that I can think of at the moment that are not plainly biblical are not biblical at all.

If scripture says that A is true, then it is always true unless it says otherwise. Theology changes.

 

[Ken Rank]

The Common Man is the Carnal Man of Adam and is inherited from the greatest of them to the least of them of the world.

The Rare and Precious Man is the Spiritual Man from heaven and is inherited from the Father through the Son.

Are the mainstream denominational and non-denominational churches/assemblies carnal churches/assemblies?


1 Corinthians 15:47 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

47 The first man [is] out of the earth, earthy; the second man [is] the Lord out of heaven;



John 4:29-30 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

29 `Come, see a man, who told me all things -- as many as I did; is this the Christ?'

30 They went forth therefore out of the city, and were coming unto him.

Respectfully, I don't follow you in regards to what your response has to do with what I posted. I was simply sharing why the word "Christian" (of or belonging to the anointed one) is not a word that needs to be avoided... it has no pagan connections, period. Your response doesn't address that so I am assuming, perhaps, you meant to respond to somebody else?

Peace.
Ken

 

[visionary]

The term originally was originally one of derision because Christians were scorned. The term lost its negative connotation pretty quickly first among Christians (Peter claimed to be a Christian, for example), and then in general as Christianity spread. The only people who use it to mock today are anti-theists like Dawkins, and they use ALL religious terms to mock.

Viz you really need to get over this. It's like believing in reptilian shapeshifters.

If I were to use Hebrew would "Messian" sound about right?

 

[visionary]

[QUOTE="visionary, post: 68093527, member: 30303"[/quote]If I were to use Hebrew would "Messian" or "Yeshuian" sound about right? This idea that the greek term is correct rather than the Hebrew terms like "Nazarene" which Paul was suppose to be the leader of is kind of strange since the "Christians" love Paul and every word declared to be written by Him.

 

[Open Heart]

If I were to use Hebrew would "Messian" sound about right?

No one uses Hebrew. The historical foundation of the church was greek. God placed a veil over the eyes of the Jews so that the gospel would be taken to the gentile/greek world. That's why all the gospels and epistles are written in Greek. For hundreds of years everything in the Church was done in Greek. The long and short of it is that Peter and the church didn't adopt "messian", they adopted "christian."

 

[ContraMundum]

How many messiahs do you think there have been then? Thousands counting the priests who were annointed? I don't think so. Messiah is an office, as is king. The Greek annointed could be any god, demigod or idol though.

There's been many anointed ones (Messiahs), according to scripture. So in Hebrew it could mean a lot of things too, not just a King.

It's always wiser to defer to the usage of a word as used in scripture rather than play games with secular dictionaries and so forth. Obviously, there is more than one Messiah in the Bible. But there is an expected final Messiah. In Greek (as in the LXX) the word for Moshiach is Christos. Check Lam. 4:20 for example. So to torpedo the conspiracy theories that "Christ" or "Christian" is somehow "pagan" or whatever this week's scare is, the Jews- not the Greeks- have given us the word "Christos".

From Lam. 4:20:

KJV: The breath of our nostrils, the anointed of the LORD

Heb: רוח אפינו משׁיח יהוה

Jewish LXX: Πνεῦμα προσώπου ἡμῶν χριστὸς κυρίου

 

[Ken Rank]

If I were to use Hebrew would "Messian" or "Yeshuian" sound about right? This idea that the greek term is correct rather than the Hebrew terms like "Nazarene" which Paul was suppose to be the leader of is kind of strange since the "Christians" love Paul and every word declared to be written by Him.

It is a word and a word is a SYMBOL that points to an object or idea. It is defined by the time and culture it is used. 100 years ago, if I had said, "At congregation yesterday we engaged in gay intercourse," what would have thought? If your thought was, "Ken took place in a happy discussion," you would be correct because that is what the words meant. We live in a religious culture, especially the Messianic/Hebrew roots side of things... that has many people who won't use Lord because they say it means "Ba'al." What those people fail to understand is that "Lord" means "one who rules with authority," which makes it the perfect choice when translating adonai into English. Plus...ba'al is the Hebrew word for "husband," and is a word God calls HIMSELF from time to time (see Isaiah 54:5 for example).

There is no joy to be found running from words. They have no power, the object or person they point to does. Some so exalt what we "call God," (i.e. whatever pronunciation of "YHWH" happens to be popular this week) that it (the word itself) is exalted to the same level HE HIMSELF is on. The word we use to refer to Him, then, becomes something of an idol itself.

This is why I have determined after much study and much prayer to not run from the word Christian at all. In our language in our time the word means, "one who belongs to the anointed one." If I am going to run from that word because it had a Greek origin... then stop using synagogue, it is NOT a Hebrew word, it is Greek!

 

[visionary]

No one uses Hebrew. The historical foundation of the church was greek. God placed a veil over the eyes of the Jews so that the gospel would be taken to the gentile/greek world. That's why all the gospels and epistles are written in Greek. For hundreds of years everything in the Church was done in Greek. The long and short of it is that Peter and the church didn't adopt "messian", they adopted "christian."

Sooooooo The foundation of the church is greek, where Christian came into being.... Then why are you over here with those who believe the foundation of the congregation of believers were Hebrew speaking people in Jerusalem.