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Christian singles and sex?

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Jim Bob, Mar 20, 2011.

Would using sex toys be a sin for single christians?

  1. Absolutely!

  2. I don't know.

  3. I am married and have all I need.

  4. Not necessarily if you can do it without sinful thoughts.

  5. I think toys are fine why should only married christians be allowed to use them?

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Jim Bob

    Jim Bob curious

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    Hi there,
    I've been browsing the forum and reading some heated discussions about wether masturbation is allowed or not.
    I wonder if masturbation is allowed and one's a single christian and let's say that normal masturbation became too boring over the years then would it be allowed for female singles to use vibrators and male singles to use devices such as a fleshlight or other vagina simulating toys? I know that the normal fleshlights look pretty gross because they look like real vaginas but there are also versions which are transparent or only have an inconspicuous slit. I also read that using a fleshlight can help controlling premature ejaculations. So let's say a christian single male struggles with premature ejaculation and doesn't want his possible future wife to be disappointed and then practices with his fleshlight would this be a sin if he was able to pull this off without having sexual things while watching TV or listening to music?
    Or what if one's a christian male and probably will never get married but at the same time is tempted by the curiousity how having sex with a woman would be like then this temptation could also get him intro trouble for example if there ever was a chance of having sex with a woman like for example if a woman wants to seduce him.
    Now if he could get rid of this "curiousity" by getting a device which mimicks a real vagina then he could try it this way without fornicating and then the curiousity would also be gone and maybe he'd even think "Doesn't even feel that good" and then he could move on and not be tempted by this nagging thoughts about how it would feel like. What do you think? I bet for those here who are married it's not that easy to imagine but imagine you're not married and also don't think you'll ever get married then it surely can be a drag to think that you might be missing out on something. :confused:
     
    If Not For Grace and Evenstar253 like this.
  2. Idontlikeobama

    Idontlikeobama Newbie

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    this is quite a question...
     
  3. wayseer

    wayseer New Member

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    Yeah, why should the marrieds have all the fun.
     
  4. solarwave

    solarwave Guest

    Christians normally say that it is a sin to lust. If you agree with this it seems it would be hard to use these objects without sinning.

    If it can be done without sinning then I see no reason to think it would be wrong

    Would it hijack the thread if I asked if it was possible to lust after your wife/husband? I mean if you want to have sex for a reason other than reproduction isn't that lust with love? Does that make it ok?
     
  5. dayhiker

    dayhiker Mature veteran

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    In Mat. 5 Jesus was talking about adultery and said it once wasn't to look at a woman and lust after. ie commit adultery in his heart. Now this word lust isn't used in a good way and a bad way in scripture. Verses say Jesus lusted and good angels lusted.

    Paul used this same Gr word to speak of the commandment not to covet ones neighbor's wife.

    So I take it that Jesus is saying we aren't to desire to take our neighbor's wife as this would be the 1st step in actually committing adultery, ie taking another man's wife.

    So we see lust isn't referring to thinking about sex as God must have thought a lot about sex as He planned creating us as sexual beings .. indeed all creatures. So this is why toys aren't a sin either.
     
  6. Kaitlin08

    Kaitlin08 Senior Member

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    :clap:
     
  7. solarwave

    solarwave Guest

    Where does it say that?
     
  8. dayhiker

    dayhiker Mature veteran

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    Well, the lust isn't sexual as we use the word today ... :)

    Jesus desired to have the last supper with the disciples
    and the good angels desire to understand our salvation.

    Same Greek word. Quite a few people use this English word lust in such an absolute way based on one verse that they miss what Jesus is saying. So I like to broaden peoples understanding.
     
  9. LWB

    LWB Regular Member

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    :D

    What makes adultery and fornication wrong, I believe, are not the physical acts in total isolation. They are simply physical sensations neither good or bad.

    What makes adultery and fornication wrong, I think, is the harm it does to others. Adultery can destroy marriages and families. Fornication can lead to unwanted pregnancy and the spoiling of an intimate bond.

    Being so filled with lust that one's entire perspective becomes perverted is not good. If the very thing which you rely on to remain pure (sexual abstinence) is compounding the problem, then finding an proper outlet is preferable to burning: 1 Corinthians 7:9.

    Someone without any prospect or wish for marriage, who does not wish to commit adultery nor fornication has only one possible outlet.

    Masturbation as a physical act minus any inappropriate fantasy, harms nobody. It is not something you could do proudly (I would hope) in front of others, but either is defecation and other embarrassing realities of the body.

    It doesn't harm the body in any way, unlike lies perpetuated by perverse people would lead the naive to believe. If anything, for the male it can have a beneficial flushing effect.

    Of course the most important benefit is that it disarms temptation for worse things, and allows the single person to get on with some semblance of normal life.

    Jim Bob raises another possible benefit. It allows one to exercise sexual function that might later benefit the marriage bed.

    However, artificial devices that seek to replace the real thing, rather then alleviate, is maybe going too far. Nothing could replicate a real experience of sexual intimacy with another person.

    Simply seek marriage if the thought of missing out on this aspect of life causes grief.
     
    If Not For Grace likes this.
  10. Jim Bob

    Jim Bob curious

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    Hello people!

    I asked a friend of me who's christian and married about several things I read at a christian marriage forum where the users there discussed practices which I found odd and disturbing and what he thinks about that and he always said stuff like: Well, in marriage it's between the man and the woman and I cannot really think of anything in marriage which should be forbidden.

    What!?! So basically it's like as long as you're married you can basically do ANYthing with your wife as long as she agrees even the most disturbing things but when you're a single then you mustn't even touch your penor and masturbate to release some steam. I don't know about you but this really upsets me.
    I think this is totally hypocritical and I also do not think that it's that easy. If masturbation for singles is not allowed then why should God give a blanket license to married couples to do whatever they want to each other?
    It really upsets me that he "cannot think of anything within marriage which could be forbidden" but at the same time he says masturbation is wrong. I can easily think of many things which even in marriage are highly controversial but simply saying that in marriage it's all about agreement and as long as they agree it's perfectly fine is a joke. It's really like once you're married you can play the swine in the bedroom and do whatever carnal thing there is as long as the wife also wants it but when you're a single then you have to be totally asexual and it would actually be better for you to castrate yourself so that you don't have any desires.
    Seriously when I hear such things from married christians then it makes me really angry. They do not have such struggles and now they play the huge sexual purity advocates and tell single christians that masturbation is evil. That's like getting fitness advice from a guy who weighs 300 pounds. If they themselves had lived in perfect abstinence then I could accept their advice but who can do that?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 1, 2011
  11. lux et lex

    lux et lex light and law

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    How did I miss this before?
     
  12. Hairy Tic

    Hairy Tic New Member

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    ## These justifications for hetero immorality - which is what some posts amount to - are hilarious; it might be interesting to see how many heteros think oral sex is OK. On some Christian forums, people object vigorously to anything non-het, but seem quite happy to tolerate or even defend their own - heterosexual - behaviour.

    STM there's a lot of muddled thinking - or lack of thinking ? - about what a consistent Christian sexual ethic amounts to. Dildos & oral sex are hardly compatible with Christian behaviour as it is - even less, so, if the people who use them find fault with homosexuals. All the arguments in the post replied to are defences of homosexual behaviour.

    What's needed is a a site called:

    • GodHatesFornicatorsDivorcesDivorceesAdulterersandotherheterosexualfilthiness
    - there are are millions of these evil people in the US alone, many of them honoured in society, when they should instead be condemned & sternly rebuked; it can hardly be said that their whoredoms are building a Christian society. Hurricane Katrina, like so many other judgements, was caused by them; their sins are forbidden in the Bible, but they persevered in their wickedness, and that was the result. The Churches will not recover until they deal with these pestilential plague-spots as they deserve, by casting out them and their money, & having nothing to do with those who seek to sanctify such uncleanness. Those who practice divorce, adultery, & fornication & the other evils defended by straight Christians, are not Christians, unless Judas & Caiaphas & Herod were Christians.

    Malachi 2 (Blue Letter Bible: NIV - New International Version)

    Fornication - Nave's Topical Bible - BibleGateway.com
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 1, 2011
  13. Jim Bob

    Jim Bob curious

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    The book of Solomon seems to be talking about OS.
    Are you a member of Westboro Baptist Church?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 1, 2011
  14. Hairy Tic

    Hairy Tic New Member

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    Absolutely - it is :) TY - you've just proved what I thought: all the venom against homosexuality, and far more important, against homosexuals, has nothing to do with the Bible, having Christian morals, or anything like that. But it has everything to do with hypocrisy, & with using the Bible as a fig-leaf to conceal the complete lack of any really Christian morality that is behind all the Bible-quoting.

    I used the very same types of argument & rhetoric that many heteros use. The arrogance I think you noticed, & protested against, is indeed loathsome & anti-Christian. It is not mine, but theirs. Neither of you tried to refute anything I said (BTW, refute =///= deny.)

    The Bible has to be massaged to be made to condemn homosexuality; but it is too clear by half for for "Christian" defenders of divorce, oral sex, etc. They are struck dumb the moment the Biblical condemnations of adultery & divorce are brought up: because those condemn what they do. Their procedure is not honest, not truthful, not worthy of any respect, and certainly not in accord with the Bible actually says: atheists are more moral.

    They can't have it both ways - either the use of Scripture in condemning what people do is a valid approach, and is authoritative, even perhaps final: in which case the sins of adulterers & their fellow-perverts (for that is what they are: perverted in morals) are condemned by the Bible;

    or - they don't intend to heed what the Bible says about divorce, adultery, fornication; in which case they cannot expect homosexuals to heed it either, however much they are clobbered with massaged verses from it.

    If heteros must preach at homosexuals, well, so be it: but please, spare us the pretence that respect for the Bible is the reason for this attitude. It very obviously is not.

    As for being like WBC - they say those things about homosexuals all the time: heterosexuals needed to be given a taste of what it's like. The difference between WBC & the ideas in the earlier post, is that the Bible does condemn adultery etc. - whereas in public life in the US, adulterers, fornicators, practicioners of divorce, are respected. They are far more numerous than "the homos", and their sins are not condemned.

    If Falwell could get away with blaming abortionists & "the homos" for Hurricane Katrina, by what logic is it possible to deny that God is opposed to divorce ? If one really must use that sort of argument - & he did: how can anyone be sure that His anger was not, instead, aroused by Bill Clinton, Jim Bakker, Elizabeth Taylor, Newt Gingrich & their fellow-offenders ? Or is it OK to use a natural disaster as means of demonising others ? It's grossly distasteful to argue like that, because it trivialises the suffering of others: but some theologies allow one to scapegoat others for natural disasters (in his case, to blame "the homos"); so he did. This is not preaching - it is prostitution of the Gospel to cheap demagoguery. And it is another symptom of the very sick condition of US Christianity.
     
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  15. nikkey76

    nikkey76 Newbie

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    Sexual fornication of any kind is not something God is in agreement with. The hard part about being a Christian is self control over our thoughts and body. You have to surrender to lustful thoughts and intentions if you fornicate.
     
  16. ghendricks63

    ghendricks63 New Member

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    One of the hard parts is figuring out what God meant by what we translate as "fornication". This is certainly a very open and fuzzy translation where the original text was much more specific. It has become much like the term "sexual immorality" in that we tend to define it by whatever WE disagree with or is on the preacher's list of forbidden behaviors.
     
  17. ghendricks63,
    In fairness, its not difficult, and you can see its not difficult for nikkey76 and nor is it difficult for me. The word porneia is used for sexual relations outside the faithful man/woman marriage union, and this is of course the position of the Christian churches.
     
  18. callmeMurph

    callmeMurph BGTF

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    I said "Not necessarily if you can do it without sinful thoughts"...that being said I don't think that is possible so in the long run...yes.
     
  19. dayhiker

    dayhiker Mature veteran

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    I want to go back to Jim Bob's post #10.

    I agree with you. Heb.13:4 says the Marriage bed IS undefiled. I agree with that and what your friend said. Where the problem is that they want as you said for us single people to be asexual. But God didn't create us to be asexual and there is no switch that is sexuality OFF till we are married, then say I do and its magically turned on.

    So I'm with those that see a certain group of people and married people can be a big part of that group that like to make strict sexual rules for singles. I don't find they have a lot of Biblical support when I studied the topic.
     
  20. lawtonfogle

    lawtonfogle My solace my terror, my terror my solace.

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    Just look at how things are punished. Sexual sins were given death in the old testament. Adultery = death. Masturbation != death. Having sex before marriage != death, but it does mean you are now married to the one you had sex, so a woman couldn't go around having pre-marital sex with multiple people, as after the first time, it would be adultery.

    Now, Jesus does call lust adultery, but He also removed the death penalty for such. What Jesus was referring to was a crowd of either married or engaged individuals (and back then, being engaged was about as good as being married, a far stronger commitment than today). Among these individuals were many who thought they could just look at other women and desire them, but that they didn't do any wrong. Jesus was pointing out that by doing such, they were being unfaithful to the one that was with them, the one they were already committed to.

    So the question with lust then becomes, when an unmarried/uncommitted male* lust, is he being unfaithful to his future spouse assuming he will one day marry? Well, this is a hard to answer question because in a sense, if he is fighting with lust without a commitment, then he is already not following the Biblical advice of marrying so that he does not 'burn with passion'. Why is he not following the advice? Because he has most likely bought into the secular advice of when/who to marry... and if we are buying into secular advice, why not just go ahead and buy into the part that says lust all you want and have consensual sex all you want? Can't serve two masters and all that jazz. Atheist have a lower divorce rate because most Christians try to mix secular and Biblical wisdom, and while secular wisdom does work by itself (Satan ain't stupid, he gives advice that is at least good in the short term and that seems wise), it doesn't mix well with God's plan.




    *I would say man, but lust is an issue starting in the pre-teen years for most males. I'm talking about males here, as this was who Jesus was speaking to, but in the end the same applies to women as well, with the caveat that we aren't only talking physical/sexual attractiveness lust, but romantic lust as well.
     
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