Christian practices: church, etc.

[cloudyday2]

My ideas about Christian theology are partly from personal "spiritual" or "delusional" experiences that I've had. For example, a couple of times I thought I "saw" Jesus. Both times I was totally amazed by the love He seemed to have for people for no reason. It went way beyond the normal "Jesus loves everybody" that people say all the time.

So when I sometimes believe in Jesus, I have a hard time believing that things like baptism, communion, accepting Jesus with my heart, attending church, being a good person, or anything else are very important. Everything depends on Jesus loving us. And Jesus seems to see something of hidden value in each of us. Like Jesus discovers a treasure buried in a field (we are the field) and He sells everything to buy that field.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure what I should be doing. I've been reading about Buddhism and meditation, because those things make perfect sense to me. But on the other hand, my "spiritual" experiences involve Christianity.

Thanks for any ideas.

 

[Dragons87]

In a way you are right: everything depends on Jesus loving us. But bigger questions flow from that, and Christianity is about choosing the "Christian" answers (whether they are the right answers are is a different question).

The question that must be asked when someone says "Jesus loves me" is obvious: how does Jesus love you/me/us? The "Christian" answer would be that he abandoned his deity, came humbly to earth, lived like us, suffered and died for our sins, rose from the dead and restored our relationship with the Father. If you believe in that answer, then you're "Christian"; if not, you're something else.

Baptism, communion, attending church etc. are all add-ons. If you accept the Christian answer to the first question of "how does Jesus love us?", the other questions are but a matter of interpretation and development of theology.

Of course, as I say, whether the Christian answers are the correct answers is a different question.

 

[cloudyday2]

In a way you are right: everything depends on Jesus loving us. But bigger questions flow from that, and Christianity is about choosing the "Christian" answers (whether they are the right answers are is a different question).

The question that must be asked when someone says "Jesus loves me" is obvious: how does Jesus love you/me/us? The "Christian" answer would be that he abandoned his deity, came humbly to earth, lived like us, suffered and died for our sins, rose from the dead and restored our relationship with the Father. If you believe in that answer, then you're "Christian"; if not, you're something else.

Baptism, communion, attending church etc. are all add-ons. If you accept the Christian answer to the first question of "how does Jesus love us?", the other questions are but a matter of interpretation and development of theology.

Of course, as I say, whether the Christian answers are the correct answers is a different question.

Thanks, I'm not sure what I believe, and it changes from day to day with my mood. Let's just say that Jesus or Krishna or whoever cares enough to try to tell me things and I don't listen. That's pretty sad.

 

[food4thought]

Hi cloudy day!

I can relate to your troubles... I spent over one and a half years isolated in a hotel room, depressed, sometimes suicidal, and delusional. God brought me out of that, has lifted me out of depression and helped me deal with the delusions. I sometimes struggle to discern what is from God and what is my own mind.

That said, I can say that I completely believe that the Bible is God's word and Jesus is Lord and Savior of all mankind. I can say without hesitation that every other religion is fundamentally different from Christianity (I have taken some classes on the subject). All other religions I have ever studied are ways to either benefit our existence here through following a set of rules/rituals, trying to please "god" through following a set of rules/rituals, and/or attempting to earn a good afterlife though following a set of rules/rituals.

Christianity claims that God reached out to man through Jesus Christ and gave us all we need to live a fullfilling life, please Him, and enter heaven. All we must do is believe and receive, and follow His Spirit.

I can understand how following His Spirit can be a difficult thing when one doubts their own minds, but all I can do is pass on to you a scripture that just came to mind:

Luk 11:9-13 NKJV (9) "So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. (10) For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. (11) If a son asks for bread from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? (12) Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? (13) If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!"

God bless you,

Mike

 

[cloudyday2]

Hi cloudy day!

I can relate to your troubles... I spent over one and a half years isolated in a hotel room, depressed, sometimes suicidal, and delusional. God brought me out of that, has lifted me out of depression and helped me deal with the delusions. I sometimes struggle to discern what is from God and what is my own mind.

Thanks, food4thought, it's a relief to know that I'm not the only one that has these kinds of problems. Sometimes I've tried to get outside opinions on my experiences, but unfortunately it has never worked. One of my relatives had somewhat similar experiences and was actually in a mental hospital for a few weeks, but I couldn't even discuss these things with her.

Anyway, thanks for the encouragement.

 

[food4thought]

Thanks, food4thought, it's a relief to know that I'm not the only one that has these kinds of problems. Sometimes I've tried to get outside opinions on my experiences, but unfortunately it has never worked. One of my relatives had somewhat similar experiences and was actually in a mental hospital for a few weeks, but I couldn't even discuss these things with her.

Anyway, thanks for the encouragement.

I would be happy to discuss your experiences if you feel comfortable sharing them. Feel free to PM me, or post here if you want others opinions as well.

My troubling experiences involves thoughts in my mind that seem to not be mine, some good and others bad; and also a pervasive paranioa that others are hearing my thoughts.

Still, God has blessed me with experiences I know were from Him. One example was while praying with two other brothers God gave me a vision, crystal clear and powerful, of those brothers in my mind... I did not see them as our eyes see them, I saw them as beings of beautiful pure white light. I know this was not my mind because the quality and clarity of the vision was completely unlike anything I could visualize myself, it was SOOO clear and powerful; and I did not even try to visualize anything. The vision just came to me clear, complete, and powerful along with an understanding of what I was seeing. I saw their souls as God sees them.

I hope this helps, cloudyday, and look forward to hearing your experiences. God bless;

Mike

 

[talitha]

First, I want to say that I believe you really did see Jesus, that you experienced a vision, because He is calling you to himself. Not that many people experience visions, so they are definitely something to treasure.

The things you mentioned (baptism, communion, accepting Jesus with my heart, attending church, being a good person, or anything else) go along, I believe, with something Jesus said: "If you love me, you will do my commandments." Doing what Jesus says is something that comes out of love for him. Jesus did command us to baptize people and teach them to do what he said; this is how the Kingdom of God grows, and if you're coming into the Kingdom of Jesus, you will be baptized and taught by his followers, and your thoughts and beliefs and feelings about many things will be changed by his spirit. It certainly happened to me. It's still happening, and I am grateful.

Jesus seems to see something of hidden value in each of us. Like Jesus discovers a treasure buried in a field (we are the field) and He sells everything to buy that field.

I love this.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure what I should be doing.

I think you know, but you're still resisting. You know you should be baptized, you should find fellowship with others who know Jesus, and you should be taught in His ways.

I've been reading about Buddhism and meditation, because those things make perfect sense to me.

Those things tend to make sense to the untransformed mind. I went through a time in my life when I felt attracted to Buddhism, but I only had a surface knowledge of it. Now I understand that it is incompatible with Christianity. Here's a brief summary of some reasons....
http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/20728/

 

[cloudyday2]

I would be happy to discuss your experiences if you feel comfortable sharing them. Feel free to PM me, or post here if you want others opinions as well.

My troubling experiences involves thoughts in my mind that seem to not be mine, some good and others bad; and also a pervasive paranioa that others are hearing my thoughts.

Still, God has blessed me with experiences I know were from Him. One example was while praying with two other brothers God gave me a vision, crystal clear and powerful, of those brothers in my mind... I did not see them as our eyes see them, I saw them as beings of beautiful pure white light. I know this was not my mind because the quality and clarity of the vision was completely unlike anything I could visualize myself, it was SOOO clear and powerful; and I did not even try to visualize anything. The vision just came to me clear, complete, and powerful along with an understanding of what I was seeing. I saw their souls as God sees them.

I hope this helps, cloudyday, and look forward to hearing your experiences. God bless;

Mike

What you describe about the light sounds similar to something a Orthodox monk said in a book I read. Apparently the white light that people often see in near death experiences may actually be their own good part (because nobody can see God). It seems good like God, but it isn't God.

I've never seen the light, but both times that I thought I saw Jesus it seemed that he was looking at people and seeing something good that I couldn't see. The last time it seemed like he saw something good in me which I have never seen in myself. (It reminded me of the parable about the treasure buried in the field.)

I'll post or PM something this evening or tomorrow hopefully. I have to work on Saturdays unfortunately, so back to that for now.

 

[talitha]

... simulposting!

 

[cloudyday2]

First, I want to say that I believe you really did see Jesus, that you experienced a vision, because He is calling you to himself. Not that many people experience visions, so they are definitely something to treasure.

The things you mentioned (baptism, communion, accepting Jesus with my heart, attending church, being a good person, or anything else) go along, I believe, with something Jesus said: "If you love me, you will do my commandments." Doing what Jesus says is something that comes out of love for him. Jesus did command us to baptize people and teach them to do what he said; this is how the Kingdom of God grows, and if you're coming into the Kingdom of Jesus, you will be baptized and taught by his followers, and your thoughts and beliefs and feelings about many things will be changed by his spirit. It certainly happened to me. It's still happening, and I am grateful.

I love this.

I think you know, but you're still resisting. You know you should be baptized, you should find fellowship with others who know Jesus, and you should be taught in His ways.

Those things tend to make sense to the untransformed mind. I went through a time in my life when I felt attracted to Buddhism, but I only had a surface knowledge of it. Now I understand that it is incompatible with Christianity. Here's a brief summary of some reasons....
Stand Firm | Why Buddhism & Christianity Are Incompatible: “Catholicism and Buddhism”

Thanks, I will read that link about Buddhism.

I will try to gather my thoughts when things slow down and list the various experiences that seemed to involve Christian ideas or symbols to see what people think.

 

[hedrick]

My ideas about Christian theology are partly from personal "spiritual" or "delusional" experiences that I've had. For example, a couple of times I thought I "saw" Jesus. Both times I was totally amazed by the love He seemed to have for people for no reason. It went way beyond the normal "Jesus loves everybody" that people say all the time.

So when I sometimes believe in Jesus, I have a hard time believing that things like baptism, communion, accepting Jesus with my heart, attending church, being a good person, or anything else are very important. Everything depends on Jesus loving us. And Jesus seems to see something of hidden value in each of us. Like Jesus discovers a treasure buried in a field (we are the field) and He sells everything to buy that field.

I'm not entirely sure I know what you mean. Are you saying that Jesus just loves us, but doesn't demand anything from us? I'm a pretty liberal Christian, but it's hard to read the Gospels for long without tripping over lots of demands for his followers to obey him.

A lot of Christians seem to have a rule-driven, i.e. legalstic, approach. They turn following Jesus into something I don't think he intended. Still, Jesus expected us to return his love by loving others, and treating them the way he told us to. And most people find that meeting with other Christians regularly is important. But you need the right other Christians, those whose approach is at least tolerably similar to yours.

There are lots of people who turn worship, communion, and baptism into something that's more like an unpleasant demand than a celebration.. But the basic reason for these things is that we're not purely spiritual. As physical beings, being with each others matters. Ceremonies and symbols help us experience and think about things.

 

[cloudyday2]

I'm not entirely sure I know what you mean. Are you saying that Jesus just loves us, but doesn't demand anything from us? I'm a pretty liberal Christian, but it's hard to read the Gospels for long without tripping over lots of demands for his followers to obey him.

A lot of Christians seem to have a rule-driven, i.e. legalstic, approach. They turn following Jesus into something I don't think he intended. Still, Jesus expected us to return his love by loving others, and treating them the way he told us to. And most people find that meeting with other Christians regularly is important. But you need the right other Christians, those whose approach is at least tolerably similar to yours.

There are lots of people who turn worship, communion, and baptism into something that's more like an unpleasant demand than a celebration.. But the basic reason for these things is that we're not purely spiritual. As physical beings, being with each others matters. Ceremonies and symbols help us experience and think about things.

The impression I got from "seeing" Jesus (or imagining) was that He loves everybody so much He would do literally anything for us - including breaking the rules. I think when He thanked God that not one of His sheep were lost He meant nobody past, present, or future... Buddhist, atheist, or whatever. The idea that He would lose any of His sheep doesn't match how He seemed to me - of course I might have imagined Him to be the way I wanted Him to be or something.

But the church issue and how to live and what to believe is my real problem. I feel like I need to do something, but I don't know what.

 

[talitha]

If you read Jesus' prayer in John 17, where he says that "none of them were lost", it is pretty clear that he is talking about the twelve disciples. He says, "While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled."

Jesus does love every single person in the world, past present and future. But not every single person loves him back. Relationships must be two-way, or they are not relationships.

 

[cloudyday2]

It's really hard to describe the experiences or delusions, but here are some of the issues I'm confused about:

I was baptised and grew up Episcopalian. Then in college I started having doubts and decided maybe if I was baptised again as an adult that I would experience the Holy Spirit. That didn't work, so I gradually became an atheist for 20 years.

A few years ago, I decided that I wasn't a real atheist because I would still pray to God sometimes. So I decided I ought to go back to church and clean-up my life. I had vacation reservations to meet a friend for several days, but I decided I was going to quit drinking after that trip. It wasn't that I believed in God, but I decided to give it another try.

That weekend a few strange things happened, but I didn't see a pattern. However, when the airplane arrived home one of the passengers made a comment to another passenger. I don't know what they were talking about, but part of it was "do you worship the devil" - those words seemed to trigger a mental breakdown in me. I sometimes wonder if I was drugged and hypnotised to react that way. Suddenly I became extremely paranoid and I thought people were going to kill me, kill my family, kill my friends, etc. I could barely walk through the airport I felt such a feeling of doom.

So for a week or two I didn't sleep much. I read the Psalms out loud, because otherwise I could hear people chanting (or imagined I could). I was getting bored with the Psalms, and something suggested I read the Nicene Creed. So I read the Nicene Creed and when I reached the line "I acknowledge one baptism" it seemed like when Paul told the soldiers that he was a Roman citizen. I went from being paranoid to being happy. So that made me think that my infant baptism as an Episcopalian was meaningful.

So that's why I think baptism might be important. But it also seems stupid that God would care about a ritual. In fact it seems wrong to me.

 

[talitha]

Wow, that is very interesting.

I feel that God really did pull you back from the brink of destruction. I love that you read the Psalms. That's where I went too, right after my time of confusion. And at that time I was involved in an Episcopal church too.

I was baptized as an infant too, in the Methodist church, and I do believe there is something to it. It is not simply a human ritual but what the church calls a sacrament, a special (mystical, even) way in which we connect with God Himself. And I cannot prove it Biblically, but I think that my infant Baptism marked me as belonging to God. Even when I have wanted to belong to myself, to reject belief in God, and to go my own way, there was this mark on me, spiritually. Later I joined a Baptist church (long story) and went on a mission trip to Russia. When I returned, I had a letter from my church saying they couldn't send me on this trip (the letter was delayed - I think it was God's doing) because I had not received "believers' baptism" by immersion. What they didn't know was that while I was on the trip I had come to the same conclusion - since I had joined this church, I was under their authority, and I felt I had to be immersed - so I was actually baptized in a river in Russia. After this experience (which was amazing), my thoughts and opinions began to change, and I now believe that we need to be baptized as a confession of our own faith (which is impossible for infants). This is baptism. I don't know what to call the sacrament that occurred when I was an infant, but as I said before, I believe it was of God, a good thing.

So yes, God does care about these "rituals". I don't know why. I think that people tend to be really present in those moments, present before Him in a way that transcends the norm, and what He cares about is that we are present before Him. Relationship, again.

 

[Publius]

My ideas about Christian theology are partly from personal "spiritual" or "delusional" experiences that I've had. For example, a couple of times I thought I "saw" Jesus. Both times I was totally amazed by the love He seemed to have for people for no reason. It went way beyond the normal "Jesus loves everybody" that people say all the time.

OK. So you say you saw Jesus, even though you have no idea what Jesus looked like, and you say that this alleged "Jesus" appeared to you, even though the Bible says that He reveals Himself through the preaching of His Word and not through extra-Biblical revelation, and even though Jesus, Himself, warned us "Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray"?

Finally, you say that this "Jesus'" message to you was that He loves you, but He said nothing about repentence, which He stated in Luke 5:32 is His purpose in calling sinners and He said absolutely nothing about the wrath of God He said abides on the wicked?

So when I sometimes believe in Jesus, I have a hard time believing that things like baptism, communion, accepting Jesus with my heart, attending church, being a good person, or anything else are very important.

So then, you "believe in Jesus", but you just don't believe what He taught?

Unfortunately, I'm not sure what I should be doing. I've been reading about Buddhism and meditation, because those things make perfect sense to me. But on the other hand, my "spiritual" experiences involve Christianity.

From what you've described, Buddhism would be a much better fit for you.

So that's why I think baptism might be important. But it also seems stupid that God would care about a ritual. In fact it seems wrong to me.

Calling God's commands "stupid"??? Yeah, I'm sure He won't mind that.

 

[cloudyday2]

Wow, that is very interesting.

As I was trying to organize what to post, I scribbled a list of about 8 similar incidents relating to religious issues. But that is too much. It's like sitting around telling ghost stories.

So I'm trying to stay focused, but it's good for people to know that I have a warped perspective due to all these "experiences". 20 years ago when I tried to find a church, I simply visited a different church every Sunday. It didn't seem like such a big deal. Now I worry about getting it wrong, because it seems like things are trying to guide me somewhere. I can't imagine why anybody like God or Satan would care what I do (because I know I won't accomplish much of anything), but I worry much more now.

Also I struggle with feeling superstitious. I hate that. I hate ritual, because that seems superstitious. Of course the Eastern Orthodox church has a lot of ritual, and that made me uncomfortable. If I was God I would make my religion more natural and sensible like Buddhism.

 

[talitha]

So I'm trying to stay focused, but it's good for people to know that I have a warped perspective due to all these "experiences".
I don't think your experiences were strange, really. I have encountered too many people who have had similar experiences, and weirder ones. I have had some myself. The conclusions you have come to are somewhat warped, probably because what you want to believe doesn't line up with the truth, and I think you know that.

20 years ago when I tried to find a church, I simply visited a different church every Sunday.
Were these "spiritual experiences" of yours twenty years ago, or were they more recent?

It didn't seem like such a big deal. Now I worry about getting it wrong, because it seems like things are trying to guide me somewhere.
Things? What things?

I can't imagine why anybody like God or Satan would care what I do (because I know I won't accomplish much of anything), but I worry much more now.
Okay, here's the deal. This entire human experience is set up to be an environment for certain things to happen. The most important for us personally is that we accept the truth, that God is God, without it being completely revealed to us experientially, because we trust him and out of that relationship. Another thing is for frail humans to overcome Satan, resulting in a humiliating defeat and destruction for him. The battleground most of the time is our minds. Jesus said that if we are not for him, we are against him. I must emphasize that the Jesus who said this is the one who walked around on the earth, son of God and son of man, who is written about in the Bible, not the Jesus that people have made up and talked about in the media, who is a "Christ conscience", a "great teacher", or a doormat. Mark Driscoll wrote that some people want to "recast Jesus as a limp-wrist hippie in a dress with a lot of product in His hair, who drank decaf and made pithy Zen statements about life while shopping for the perfect pair of shoes. In Revelation, Jesus is a prize fighter with a tattoo down His leg, a sword in His hand and the commitment to make someone bleed. That is a guy I can worship. I cannot worship the hippie, diaper, halo Christ because I cannot worship a guy I can beat up." I love that quote! Our minds are a battleground, but our hearts - there is the prize. God has chosen to make His home in our hearts. We are the reason that Jesus became a man and lived among people, suffered rejection, and was cruelly executed. It was for love of us. Hard to take in, but it's the truth.

Also I struggle with feeling superstitious. I hate that.
Superstitions are not of God. In Christ you can be healed and delivered of that.

I hate ritual, because that seems superstitious.
I know what you mean. I tend to like ritual because of my personality, but that doesn't mean it's good. I have really moved away from a lot of ritual in the course of my life. I think the goodness or badness of it has to do with your motivation within it. Superstitious ritual-observing has its base in fear; that's why the Pharisees made up all the extra ceremonial laws that Jesus alluded to in the new testament. One I remember being told about was that some of the Pharisees would walk all the time with their heads down, lest they look upon a woman with lust, to the point that they would run into walls and things. Pretty ridiculous, but I think there are modern examples of similar things, even among Christians. An old friend of mine was a Catholic who lived with a lot of guilt. He was afraid he would die in a car accident and go to hell, so every time he rounded a corner, he would grab his Saint Jude's medal and his crucifix and cross himself. Yup, that takes two hands, and he almost crashed once or twice that I know of. (no, I am NOT saying that all Catholics are like that)

Of course the Eastern Orthodox church has a lot of ritual, and that made me uncomfortable.
I really want to visit an Orthodox church. I tried to talk with a priest when I was in Russia, but he wanted nothing to do with me.

If I was God I would make my religion more natural and sensible like Buddhism.
And that is one reason Buddhism exists. People a long time ago thought some things seemed natural and sensible. The Bible says that what seems right to us often leads to death (the Talitha Version). When people try to figure things out without consulting God, the result is not optimal.

Summing up, I would say that Jesus has revealed himself to you, especially his character of love, and that you have rightly assumed that this means you should become a Christian. There are some beliefs and practices in Christianity that you don't find yourself aligning with, but there is something inside you that says it's right nevertheless. So you are conflicted. Jesus is calling you to himself by his spirit. You don't have to clean up your belief system and do things right before saying yes to him. You simply say yes to HIM (not to some particular church or anything, just to him), put yourself in his hands, and trust him to lead you, and to change you as HE sees fit to change you. He loves busting paradigms, and that will make the ride exciting.

bless you
tal

 

[cloudyday2]

OK. So you say you saw Jesus, even though you have no idea what Jesus looked like, and you say that this alleged "Jesus" appeared to you, even though the Bible says that He reveals Himself through the preaching of His Word and not through extra-Biblical revelation, and even though Jesus, Himself, warned us "Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray"?

Finally, you say that this "Jesus'" message to you was that He loves you, but He said nothing about repentence, which He stated in Luke 5:32 is His purpose in calling sinners and He said absolutely nothing about the wrath of God He said abides on the wicked?

On the repentance issue, I think we need to repent of our "good" works as well as our "evil" works. I guess I'll describe this last "experience" I had, because that's what it was about.

A couple of months ago, I was extremely depressed. I felt like if Jesus existed then I would like to kick his butt. I felt like my whole life was designed to give me opportunities that I would squander so I could live with the knowledge of my failures. I was angry to think that I'm only 45 and might have to live another 40 years with my sole purpose to make other people feel good - "things might be bad, but at least I'm not a total loser like that cloudyday."

So I went to sleep and had a dream. There was a person made out of light in the distance. I had a dream with something like that light about 15 years earlier, and it had identified itself as "the devil". That first time "the devil" took me to a place where I could see the universe from the outside - like God. I could see the past and the future and everything made sense. I was begging "the devil" to let me stay there, but he told me I would go back to this dream life and hiding from the truth and not be able to remember anything he explained to me (because the concepts were too bizarre to comprehend in this normal state). But then he showed me myself in the future very old and bitter. At that time my life was going up instead of down, so I couldn't understand what could possibly make me that bitter. But now I have a better idea.

But this time the light instantly tackled me and pinned me on my back where I couldn't breath. All I could think was "I guess this is the end of me, and I'm getting what I deserve, sorry for making such a mess of my life, God." Then instantly the thing that was attacking me was gone and I could see a star in the sky with a smudgy light on the left and another smudgy light on the right. I was aware that I was in the middle of saying "Lord, have mercy".

The star in my dream was Jesus and His light and love was shining on me. I felt like being a little chipmunk in the woods coming out and there is my Creator to pat me on the head. It seemed like all the good and bad in my life was basically irrelevant to Jesus. He was looking past all that to see something hidden in me that He's really after. It reminded me of the parable about the treasure buried in the field or the pearl in the oyster.

Then it seemed like Jesus said I should follow Him, the star, and not the smudge on His left or the smudge on His right. The smudge on His left was rituals and the smudge on His right was Holy Spirit experiences (or something - that part was less clear). He said I should put 100% of my hope in His mercy and if I tried to strengthen my hope by adding something such as rituals or Holy Spirit experiences (or whatever), then I would be 100% off-target. It was like Jesus was saying "I am the Way the Light and the Truth - period". (These weren't words, but ideas that popped into my mind.)

So the whole dream was over in a couple of seconds - like a flashbulb. I woke up and was really happy for about a week. I know it could have been mental illness too, but that is the best "experience" I've ever had. Most of my "experiences" are negative.

I've thought about the message, and I don't think it was a condemnation of practices in denominations but a condemnation of how people like myself understand those practices. Also after seeing how Jesus seemed to feel about me, I can't imagine Him losing any of His sheep. It seems like He is going to gather everybody to Himself and take them through the gate. Probably everybody must discard everything they think they have after they die (such as good works, church rituals, spirituality, etc.) and then they can finally see the mercy of Jesus and enter heaven - like the camel going through the eye of the needle.

Also, I hope everybody takes this with a grain of salt. It could have been my imagination. I'm just trying to explain where I'm coming from in my concerns about church and practices.

 

[talitha]

ooh simulposting again.... I love how on top of this you are, cloudyday.