Christian masculinity

Dave-W

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@AlexDTX, I don't think you can define God as masculine to the exclusion of the feminine. Both sexes are made in the image and likeness of God; not one more than the other.

Setting up a God=male, not-God=female sort of dichotomy puts us on theologically shaky ground, and more than that, contributes to a very negative set of tropes about women.
Indeed. While God is called "Father," a very masculine job title, almost every attribute of Him tends more toward the feminine.

One of His Hebrew names is El Shaddai - usually rendered in English something like "All Sufficient God." But that hides something rather plain in Hebrew - "shad" is the word for "breast."

Since the -ai ending indicates first person ownership (my, mine) as evidenced by Elohai (my God) or Adonai (my Lord), El Shaddai could roughly be rendered "God, my breast." Of course no self respecting translator would put it that way, but it would fit.
 
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Dave-W

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How come some men get upset when other men do things they think aren't masculine if those other men are still good people not hurting anybody else with their choices?
They probably feel like a guy doing those things diminishes the brand, casts an unwelcome light on all men including themselves.

I got some of that growing up as a musician instead of a football player.
 
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RDKirk

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Tallguy88

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Again, women can work and support their families, women can lead their families. Women who are widowed will be both mother AND father to their families.

Once again, there are no qualities which can be said to be 'masculine' which you will not find women doing every day; millions upon millions of them. The same is true of 'feminine'. Such concepts are meaningless.



St Joseph and St Mary are only examples, and it is not I who am missing any points here. There is no such thing as masculine qualities in contradistinction to feminine ones, and those who seek to promote 'masculine Christianity' for men are following a sexist agenda intended to infantalise women. The agenda is actually to present women as children, and men as the ONLY adult in the family.

That is a very unbalanced and supremely unChristian view of women, and one which the Lord himself did NOT promote. In families with more than one adult, all the adults will reach a joint decision. For any one person to assume control over the others is not Christianity, it is tyranny.

Others may not realise that this is what they are doing, but the evidence is clear; nobody is able to list those magical 'masculine' qualities which women apparently lack.
That may be how you interpret the issue, but I've said from the beginning that has nothing to do with this thread. It's about being a Christian man, not anything to do with feminine qualities. This is not an adversarial thread.
 
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98cwitr

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MOD HAT ON

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RDKirk

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Being a good cook is a manly skill. It gives a level of independence.

Cooking is paradoxical. The role of "chef" was male only and denied to women until quite recently. It was seen as a woman's role only as done for her own family.
 
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RDKirk

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Continuing with the theme of the OP, there are many other "manly" saints we can look to for inspiration on Christian masculinity. St. Saraphim of Sarov, St. Moses the Black, St. George, St. Martin.

So what traits in common do they display that in your opinion are particularly "masculine?"
 
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Tallguy88

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Cooking is paradoxical. The role of "chef" was male only and denied to women until quite recently. It was seen as a woman's role only as done for her own family.
Being generally skilled would definitely be a good masculine quality. Be it cooking, mechanics, basic home repairs, even sewing tears in your clothes. I think it all ties into independence, which is definitely a masculine trait.

So there's one: Independence.

What else?
 
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RDKirk

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Being generally skilled would definitely be a good masculine quality. Be it cooking, mechanics, basic home repairs, even sewing tears in your clothes. I think it all ties into independence, which is definitely a masculine trait.

So there's one: Independence.

What else?

Independence is not, however, Christian.
 
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Tallguy88

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So what traits in common do they display that in your opinion are particularly "masculine?"
Not sure I'd say "in common". But individually, St Moses the Black would be truly repentant for his evil life, then humble in his faith (the bag of sand story), then brave in his death.

So repentence, humility, and bravery for him.

St George would be bravery (fighting the dragon), fidelity (remaining faithful to the Emperor until ordered to renounce his faith), and steadfast faith unto martyrdom.

St Martin would be charity in how he cut his fine military cloak in half to clothe a naked begger.
 
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Tallguy88

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Independence is not, however, Christian.
To a point. Look at the girls with the oil. The ones who were prepared went to the feast while the foolish ones did not. So at least some level of personal responsibility is extolled, even if the sort of hyper-individualism that gets promoted in modern America is foreign to historic Christianity.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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Biblically accountability to God would be one. That would include everyone tho as all must stand alone before God. But accountablity of anyone in a teaching position carries much more responsibility yet again that responsibility falls to even those of teachers of children.

Masculine men would know how to love deeply to the point of having taken on that characteristic from Christ. But again we're all commanded to do that.

I can't see it being any physical traits as each has their own physicalities.

Ok here's one:

1 Kings 2:1-3
When the time drew near for David to die, he gave a charge to Solomon his son.
“I am about to go the way of all the earth,” he said. “So be strong, act like a man, and observe what the Lord your God requires: Walk in obedience to him, and keep his decrees and commands, his laws and regulations, as written in the Law of Moses. Do this so that you may prosper in all you do and wherever you go
 
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Cimorene

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They probably feel like a guy doing those things diminishes the brand, casts an unwelcome light on all men including themselves.

I got some of that growing up as a musician instead of a football player.

Lol, I like the way you phrased that. Diminishes the brand.:D You might be right. I just think it would be SO much better if people just lived & let live.
 
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Neogaia777

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Look, the one notable difference I know of, and can be either in a male or female today, is how one handles "pain"... The way one deals with pain, suffering, sorrow, anguish, trouble, trails, tribulations, persecutions, problems is what, classically anyhow has separated the masculine and the feminine...

I am not saying one is better or worse than the other, for one stuffs it, or can bottle it up, sometimes doesn't, but sometimes can, which isn't good, if it does deal with it that way... While the other fully acknowledges it, but often takes it "too far" in and more than just simply acknowledging it, and can let it control and dominate their lives... One can (seem to) "get over it" easily, brush it off, shove it aside and move on... Which could be denying it, which is debatable to the healthiness of that... Their two extremes that should meet, somewhere in the middle...

The best, healthiest way to deal with, handle, and manage "pain" would be the issue...

God Bless!
 
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RDKirk

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To a point. Look at the girls with the oil. The ones who were prepared went to the feast while the foolish ones did not. So at least some level of personal responsibility is extolled, even if the sort of hyper-individualism that gets promoted in modern America is foreign to historic Christianity.

Personal responsibility and independence are not by any means the same thing.
 
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RDKirk

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Look, the one notable difference I know of, and can be either in a male or female today, is how one handles "pain"... The way one deals with pain, suffering, sorrow, anguish, trouble, trails, tribulations, persecutions, problems is what, classically anyhow has separated the masculine and the feminine...

I am not saying one is better or worse than the other, for one stuffs it, or can bottle it up, sometimes doesn't, but sometimes can, which isn't good, if it does deal with it that way... While the other fully acknowledges it, but often takes it "too far" in and more than just simply acknowledging it, and can let it control and dominate their lives... One can (seem to) "get over it" easily, brush it off, shove it aside and move on... Which could be denying it, which is debatable to the healthiness of that... Their two extremes that should meet, somewhere in the middle...

The best, healthiest way to deal with, handle, and manage "pain" would be the issue...

God Bless!

Woman: "I think I've been shot. Have I been shot? Do I need to go to the hospital?"
Woman friend: "Oh, my goodnes, you have been shot!"
Woman: "Then I need to go to the hospital!"
Woman's friend: "You sure do!"

Man: "I think I've been shot. Have I been shot?"
Man's friend: "It's just a flesh wound. Walk it off."

It seems to me that women want to hear a validation of their pain while men prefer to hear confidence that they can withstand their pain. This seems to be very old, as even from Shakespeare, when Mercutio has been run through with a sword:

Romeo: "Courage man! The hurt cannot be much!"
 
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Tallguy88

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Personal responsibility and independence are not by any means the same thing.
So you think independence (within reason) is not a Christian virtue? What of the hermits? The monastics? They have historically striven to be independent as a community and produce what they need. That's far from their primary focus, but it is a component of the life.
 
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Neogaia777

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Woman: "I think I've been shot. Have I been shot? Do I need to go to the hospital?"
Woman friend: "Oh, my goodnes, you have been shot!"
Woman: "Then I need to go to the hospital!"
Woman's friend: "You sure do!"

Man: "I think I've been shot. Have I been shot?"
Man's friend: "It's just a flesh wound. Walk it off."

It seems to me that women want to hear a validation of their pain while men prefer to hear confidence that they can withstand their pain. This seems to be very old, as even from Shakespeare, when Mercutio has been run through with a sword:

Romeo: "Courage man! The hurt cannot be much!"
That made me laugh, thanks, for that...

But, classically that has kinda been the case, except you forgot to add that sometimes women had a scrape, or a little flesh wound, or a boo-boo, and thought they were gonna die, and freak out because of it, there's that extreme also...

Where's the middle ground...?

God Bless!
 
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