Christ our High Priest at Judgment Seat of Christ: 1844

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by VictorC

Bob, you seemed to have missed the fact that Daniel 7 doesn't depict a judgment on the saints of God. This was already pointed out to you! Is this another example of your effort to misrepresent your church?
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That is the full quote of your post.

Originally Posted by BobRyan

As we all know - judgment passed in favor of one group is also against their opponent when an accuser and the accused are presented before the court.

You leave me in the role of stating the obvious.

Dan 7:22 "judgment was passed in FAVOR of the saints".

And Romans 2 describes those success cases as well as the future judgment - for both Jews AND Gentiles so that we can see just how "Judgment is passed in favor of the saints".


​

That is my full post

Bob, you truncated my post and didn't answer my question:

I find your logic illusive at that point.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

In short, you can't reconcile Adventist eschatology with the verse you quoted.
Moving on...

And again we see that you can't reconcile the verse you quoted with Adventist eschatology. In fact, it doesn't appear you made any effort to.

There was no contradiction presented - please post one.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[VictorC]

It would be pretty silly for me to take up the task of refuting my own post -

That's your burden. You have yet to find Ellen's judgment scenario depicted anywhere in Scripture. Instead, your own posts contradict her so many times I don't bother to count anymore. Why can't you find the Investigative Judgment in the entire Bible you have at your disposal?

 

[VictorC]

There was no contradiction presented - please post one.

in Christ,

Bob

Bob, is your entire modus operandi based on feigning ignorance of our conversation? The answer you provided to my post showed that you clearly can't reconcile the verse you quoted with Adventist eschatology.

 

[BobRyan]

Second:
Your ideas are in deference to what the SDA church teaches as their Investigative Judgment. It was my initial entry into this thread that was to remind you that you're misrepresenting the doctrine your moniker claims as your own church. I quoted your own source materials that define the IJ for you, and your effort to distance yourself from the label applied by your own church doesn't diminish the fact that you're misrepresenting it.

That is nonsense.

In this thread I have made these key points in pointing out the texts that point to a future judgment.

1. The future judgment is future to the days of Paul. see 2Cor 5:10, Rom 2:16
2. The future judgment comes after the fall of Pagan Rome Dan 7:5-22
3. The future judgment comes after the 1260 years of the dark ages. Dan 7
4. The future judgment includes the saints as we see in 2Cor 5:10
5. The future judgment includes the "deeds of the saints" 2Cor 5:10
6. The future Judgment uses "books" to review those deeds Dan 7:9-10.
7. The result is that "Judgment is passed in favor of the saints". Dan 7:22
8. The mechanism for reaching that Gospel conclusion is revealed in Rom 2:6-16.
9. This future Judgment is part of the Gospel – Rom 2:16, Rev 14:6-7.
10 This future judgment is a message preached in the last days – Rev 14:6-7

You have not refuted even one of these NOR have you shown that the 28 Fundamental Beliefs of the SDA church opposes even ONE of these -- much less the writings of Ellen White.

So having failed on all 8 points - you now wish to "make stuff up"??

why do that? What purpose does it serve?

Bob, the task of 'refuting' your self-imposed points is a burden you alone must bear

It would be pretty silly for me to take up the task of refuting my own post -

I find your logic "illusive" just then. What in the world are you thinking??

- as they are contrary to what the SDA church teaches

Not even remotely correct.

Why keep making stuff up?? What is the point of that?

Here we see Ellen defining the Investigative Judgment:

• Convened only after 1844, 'it is...in 1844...to perform the work of investigative judgment'
• Addresses only the 'professed people of God', and is not a general judgment

Both the SDA church and Ellen White claim that the judgment that takes place prior to the 2nd coming "rejects names" and "accepts names" and that anyone who has any remote claim to the Gospel - no matter how slim is included. Thus many names come in - many accepted - and many others found to be in the Matt 18 case or the Matt 7 - and are in their final state -- lost.


The fact is that nothing in your list -addresses any point listed in my as if to refute/contradict even one of them. A "professed Christian" is not necessarily saved -- merely by making outward "profession" and some of those who "professed Christianity" persecuted the Protestants in the dark ages (as an example.)


Were we simply "not supposed to notice"??
How was that ever supposed to work for you??

As noted above --

Bob, the task of 'refuting' your self-imposed points is a burden you alone must bear

It would be pretty silly for me to take up the task of refuting my own post -

I find your logic "illusive" just then. What in the world are you thinking??

That's your burden.

As noted above - I find your logic illusive.

Find a point - respond to it with some sort of substance - we can talk that way. just claiming that you "did something" but never being able to show exactly what it is - doesn't work.

By contrast I repeatedly list the points of my argument - feel free to make a point in response.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Wikipedia has a chart on the 1260 years of the dark ages and Daniel 7.

Daniel 7 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Go to the bottom to the "Appendix" section and click on "SHOW" to see the chart so carefully hidden.

 

[Bible2]

BobRyan said in post 126:

Wikipedia has a chart on the 1260 years of the dark ages and Daniel 7.

Regarding the 1,260 days, 42 months, and "a time, and times, and half a time", they are all the same time period in the prophecies of Revelation 11:2-3, Revelation 13:5, Revelation 12:6,14, Daniel 7:25, and Daniel 12:7. They will be 1,260 literal days, just as, for example, the 3 days in the fulfilled prophecies of Luke 9:22 and Luke 18:33 were literal days, and the 3 days in the fulfilled prophecies of Genesis 40:13 and Genesis 40:19 were literal days, and the 70 years in the fulfilled prophecy of Jeremiah 25:11-12 (Daniel 9:2) were literal years (Zechariah 7:5).

The literal 1,260-day time period will be the time of the Antichrist's Luciferian/Satanic worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), which time period is shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13). The myriad details of these chapters were never fulfilled during a past time period of 1,260 years, as historicism mistakenly claims. But these details must be fulfilled (Revelation 1:1). So they will be fulfilled in our future, after the also-never-fulfilled details of Revelation chapters 6 to 10 are fulfilled in our future.

BobRyan said in post 126:

Wikipedia has a chart on the 1260 years of the dark ages and Daniel 7.

In Daniel 7, the first 3 beasts (Daniel 7:3-6) represent the ancient empires of Babylon (lion), Medo-Persia (bear), and Greece (leopard). The 4th beast, or 4th "king"/"kingdom" (Daniel 7:17,23), represents the ancient Roman empire. The 10 horns/kings which come out of it (Daniel 7:7,24) could represent 10 major kingdoms/nations today which came out the former territory of the Roman empire, which consisted not only of Western Europe, but also the Middle East and North Africa. These 10 nations could be Germany, the U.K., France, Italy, Spain, Turkey, Egypt, Iraq, Algeria, and Syria. The 10 part-iron/part-clay toes of Daniel 2:42 could represent the same thing as the 10 horns of Daniel 7:7. The Europeans could be the iron, and the Arabs and Turks could be the clay. In Daniel 2:43, the inability of the iron to mix with the clay could represent how, for example, there are many Turks living in Germany, but they remain separated in ghettoes within German cities. Similarly, there are many Arab Algerians living in France, but they remain separated in ghettoes within French cities.

But despite this social separation, which could endure indefinitely, the people of Western Europe on the one hand and the people of the Middle East and North Africa on the other could still one day put aside their political separation and become united into one confederation. For Daniel 2:42 refers to the 10 as a singular "kingdom". The person who brings this about could be the Antichrist. The arising of the "little" horn (Daniel 7:8, Daniel 8:9), which is "diverse" from the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:24), could mean that the Antichrist will arise from a little country.

And the little horn arising from "among" the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:8) could mean that the Antichrist's country's territory used to be part of the Roman empire. And before that, it was part of one of the 4 Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded the Greek empire of Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). The territory of these 4 kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the Antichrist could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from the little country of Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4).

The Antichrist could start out by claiming to be a Baathist. After becoming the leader of Lebanon, he could peacefully gain control of a Baathist confederation of 3 of the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:24): Egypt, "toward the south" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9), and Iraq and Syria, "toward the east" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9). This confederation could also include the minor nation of a United Palestine, i.e. a defeated Israel, "the pleasant land" (Daniel 8:9).

This Baathist confederation could be put together in the future by an Iraqi Baathist General who could completely defeat and occupy Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath"), but who could then mysteriously disappear (Daniel 11:19) shortly before the Antichrist arises on the world stage (Daniel 11:21-45). Years later, when the Antichrist gains control of all 10 of the major nations, he could appoint kings over them (Revelation 17:12) who will defer to him (Revelation 17:13), like when Napoleon gained control of different nations, he appointed kings over them who would defer to him.

 

[BobRyan]

Regarding the 1,260 days, 42 months, and "a time, and times, and half a time", they are all the same time period in the prophecies of Revelation 11:2-3, Revelation 13:5, Revelation 12:6,14, Daniel 7:25, and Daniel 12:7.

I agree. They are what we call the "dark ages".

In the link I provided - there is a chart showing how scholars since the time of the reformation have recognized the same day-for-year principle used in Dan 7 as all know today as being used in Dan 9 for the 70 weeks - 490 year timeline pointing to the first coming of Christ.

In fact Dan 7 and 8 and 9 all use the same day-for-year apocalyptic model for future apocalyptic timelines. Which simplifies the process considerably.

in Christ,

Bob