Chick-fil-a fallout

[MoreCoffee]

Who the heck wants to be like the countries in Europe?...

Who is talking about Europe?

 

[Root of Jesse]

Silvio, et al

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Who the heck wants to be like the countries in Europe?

I would for one. I've actually been there and seen what the societies are like


Have you ?

That would be like trading your Vette for one of those dumb electric cars.

I don't own a corvette and will likely never be able to afford one.

can you ?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Silvio, et al

He was talking about Ireland. That's not Europe

 

[MoreCoffee]

I would for one. I've actually been there and seen what the societies are like


Have you ?
...

I lived in Sweden, it was great! beautiful country, very friendly yet sophisticated people, excellence in nearly everything.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I suppose that question can be answered, I haven't checked the statistics carefully for that issue; it is significant however, that the average full time wage in Australia is over $73,000. The equivalent in the USA appears to be about 1/2 or 1/3 that; though that may be wrong. It was reported on the government owned and funded public network in Australia (the ABC - Australian Broadcasting Corporation).

Nah, the average income here is about $50,000. We probably have more people out of work or earning little due to unemployment.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Nah, the average income here is about $50,000. We probably have more people out of work or earning little due to unemployment.

I bet you were born in 1956

 

[StThomasMore]

You're right, we have a horrible welfare system. Very inefficient. If the poor who needed it would get more than 25 cents out of every dollar we put into the system, it would be the best. And if people worked for their money, rather than getting something for nothing, they'd have more dignity, and not have to think they're getting a handout. Requiring someone to earn something is not a bad thing.

Oh my, you really do not know how your taxes work do you. 25 cents on the dollar to the poor, lol.

No. 30% goes to the military, 20% to social security, 21% on medicare(all 3 which have nothing to do with poverty programs and kick in after you hit 65 I think), and less than 5% goes emergency programs.

Say you make 50,000$ a year

50$ of that would go to welfare(TARP), $424 to unemployment, and 111$ for SSI security income.

so basically 0.4% goes to TARP funds(which is welfare)

In fact, whats sad is that there really is no specific area in the tax bracket that goes to help the poor. Most of the emergency income area only qualifies people with children, mostly single mothers.

And its not about getting a handout. That mentality is very uncharitable anyway. Its about helping people who cannot help themselves because they are in extreme conditions, whether it be mental illness, addiction, loss of job or house, economic issues.

While the US doesn't want to be like Europe, even though Europe trumps it everytime with regards to low crime rate and much better living standard and quality of life(since the top 4 are Switzerland, Sweden/Norway, Australia, and Denmark), it still doesn't give the right of society to just let the poor rot in the ground. You don't see Skid Rows in europe and a 1000x higher incarceration and crime rate.

the U.S. also has one of the higher per capita homeless rates for developed countries

As for your conclusion, it all depends on your values. It is certainly the case that all the developed countries can afford to provide housing for all. But it is also the case that some people would consider it immoral for the government to give someone housing. Although christianity would consider it equally immoral to let the poor just rot in the ground

 

[AMDG]

Europe trumps the U.S. in low crime statistics?!! Are you kidding? Haven't seen the riots? I think only Switzerland has a low crime rate and that's because each household (with exceptions) have to have an automatic weapon (which has a deterrent effect).

Now if you are *really* interested in low crime, there's this town in Georgia in the U.S. that has low crime (also because of the deterrence).

BTW, you know that the U.S. is a biiiiiiiiiig country and salaries (as well as the cost of living) are different form one state to another plus that those who work in the public sector have way higher salaries.

 

[S.ilvio]

Europe trumps the U.S. in low crime statistics?!! Are you kidding? Haven't seen the riots? I think only Switzerland has a low crime rate and that's because each household (with exceptions) have to have an automatic weapon (which has a deterrent effect).

What are you smoking these days AMDG? Has Antigone sent you something in the mail from her local 'Coffee shop'...?

 

[Root of Jesse]

Oh my, you really do not know how your taxes work do you. 25 cents on the dollar to the poor, lol.

No. 30% goes to the military, 20% to social security, 21% on medicare(all 3 which have nothing to do with poverty programs and kick in after you hit 65 I think), and less than 5% goes emergency programs.

Say you make 50,000$ a year

50$ of that would go to welfare(TARP), $424 to unemployment, and 111$ for SSI security income.

so basically 0.4% goes to TARP funds(which is welfare)

In fact, whats sad is that there really is no specific area in the tax bracket that goes to help the poor. Most of the emergency income area only qualifies people with children, mostly single mothers.

And its not about getting a handout. That mentality is very uncharitable anyway. Its about helping people who cannot help themselves because they are in extreme conditions, whether it be mental illness, addiction, loss of job or house, economic issues.

While the US doesn't want to be like Europe, even though Europe trumps it everytime with regards to low crime rate and much better living standard and quality of life(since the top 4 are Switzerland, Sweden/Norway, Australia, and Denmark), it still doesn't give the right of society to just let the poor rot in the ground. You don't see Skid Rows in europe and a 1000x higher incarceration and crime rate.

the U.S. also has one of the higher per capita homeless rates for developed countries

As for your conclusion, it all depends on your values. It is certainly the case that all the developed countries can afford to provide housing for all. But it is also the case that some people would consider it immoral for the government to give someone housing. Although christianity would consider it equally immoral to let the poor just rot in the ground

If you only understood what I said! For every dollar that goes into the welfare system, the person needing the welfare gets 25 cents. So 75 cents is spent on bureaucracy.
The mentality you speak of may work for where you live. If that's what welfare was here, as a blanket statement, we'd have no problem. The problem is that many on welfare think they have no way out, that the government is there to take care of them. What should be the case is that people who have need should get what they need to get out of the hole and on their feet. It should be limited, not permanent...
The reason you don't have homelessness is because it's against the law, pretty much. And don't think that, in all the Olympic coverage we've gotten over here, we have ignored the poverty on the other side of the fence. The reason we have so many homeless is that people want to be off the grid. A homeless person here where I live can make more in a day than I do. Not to mention go to the hospital and get taken care of, go to a place where he can get food if need be. Not all, but most homeless are homeless because they want to be.
But let's talk real numbers. In a country of 300 million people, the US has about 650,000 homeless. In the EU, there are 3 million homeless , UN numbers, estimated in 500 million people.

 

[SuziTiri]

and Canada,,,,we have same sex marriage..in my city everyone accepts everyone,, when we have gay price parades..there are 0% protests (when it comes with that).inexpensive health care and i don't feel scared walking the streets ...we would like to inivite you all over for tea

 

[Athanasias]

my hobby is moyder 2,3,4.....................

 

[Root of Jesse]

and Canada,,,,we have same sex marriage..in my city everyone accepts everyone,, when we have gay price parades..there are 0% protests (when it comes with that).inexpensive health care and i don't feel scared walking the streets ...we would like to inivite you all over for tea

Suzi, do you ever have pro-life walks/parades? Peaceful demonstrations to protect unborn children? Do people protest those from the sidelines?

Because I've walked in the West Coast Walk for Life with people on the sidelines shouting obscenities, throwing stuff at marchers, and so on. We also leave the route very clean. Seems other protest groups tend to trash the streets and require police protection.

 

[SuziTiri]

Suzi, do you ever have pro-life walks/parades? Peaceful demonstrations to protect unborn children? Do people protest those from the sidelines?

Because I've walked in the West Coast Walk for Life with people on the sidelines shouting obscenities, throwing stuff at marchers, and so on. We also leave the route very clean. Seems other protest groups tend to trash the streets and require police protection.

actually i would be in it we had them because im prolife too

 

[StThomasMore]

If you only understood what I said! For every dollar that goes into the welfare system, the person needing the welfare gets 25 cents. So 75 cents is spent on bureaucracy.
The mentality you speak of may work for where you live. If that's what welfare was here, as a blanket statement, we'd have no problem. The problem is that many on welfare think they have no way out, that the government is there to take care of them. What should be the case is that people who have need should get what they need to get out of the hole and on their feet. It should be limited, not permanent...
The reason you don't have homelessness is because it's against the law, pretty much. And don't think that, in all the Olympic coverage we've gotten over here, we have ignored the poverty on the other side of the fence. The reason we have so many homeless is that people want to be off the grid. A homeless person here where I live can make more in a day than I do. Not to mention go to the hospital and get taken care of, go to a place where he can get food if need be. Not all, but most homeless are homeless because they want to be.
But let's talk real numbers. In a country of 300 million people, the US has about 650,000 homeless. In the EU, there are 3 million homeless , UN numbers, estimated in 500 million people.

There may be people that abuse welfare, but doesn't give the reason to abolish welfare and emergency security programs. Considering how un=streamlined the US's programs are, it makes it very tough for the average family in emergency need to even get help, since there are so many hoops and hurdles people are put through. That reason why America has the worst homeless rate per capita among the developed countries is because our system to help people in immediate need is below bare minimum. Shelters look more like concentration camps than a decent place for refuge.

The number 1 reason why homeless people are homeless in the US, is the lack of affordable housing due to our wages not being equalized with inflation. Cost of everything is going up, except wages stay cemented exactly the same for over 20 years now. Back in the 60s-70s housing was affordable because wages were on an equal level with inflation

Obviously something like a living wage, which is what the Catholic Church teaches should be instituted, would lower homelessness exponentially. But this would call for greedy people to try to be less greedy, which won't happen in America where we tend to ignore the poor and in need.

Poverty was the second cause. With unemployment being the last. So this whole idea that they are just people who are being lazy is not consistent with what is being reported.

 

[Lady Bug]

never mind

 

[Root of Jesse]

There may be people that abuse welfare, but doesn't give the reason to abolish welfare and emergency security programs. Considering how un=streamlined the US's programs are, it makes it very tough for the average family in emergency need to even get help, since there are so many hoops and hurdles people are put through. That reason why America has the worst homeless rate per capita among the developed countries is because our system to help people in immediate need is below bare minimum. Shelters look more like concentration camps than a decent place for refuge.

1. Where did I say that we should abolish welfare?
2. I proved above that America does not have the worst homeless rate per capita.

The number 1 reason why homeless people are homeless in the US, is the lack of affordable housing due to our wages not being equalized with inflation. Cost of everything is going up, except wages stay cemented exactly the same for over 20 years now. Back in the 60s-70s housing was affordable because wages were on an equal level with inflation

Not trying to say that homeless people don't deserve dignity, but many homeless people are homeless because they want to be homeless. We used to call them hobos. They lived an independent life, which is just what they wanted. There are opportunities all over the place for homeless people. I know companies that offer jobs to homeless people, but the homeless people rarely show up. Why? Because they can make more by begging on the street. An industrious beggar can earn $20/hour, and if you can't find a place to live on that, you're not looking hard. Certainly, there are those who fall through the cracks. But in this country, nobody is turned away for lack of ability to pay for basic health care.

Obviously something like a living wage, which is what the Catholic Church teaches should be instituted, would lower homelessness exponentially. But this would call for greedy people to try to be less greedy, which won't happen in America where we tend to ignore the poor and in need.

Define living wage. $/hr please.

Poverty was the second cause. With unemployment being the last. So this whole idea that they are just people who are being lazy is not consistent with what is being reported.

Where did I say they were lazy? And if you believe that $20/hr is poverty, you have another thing coming.

 

[tadoflamb]

Tad let us know what the courts say. Basically companies can sue for using their logos... if you use it as a sales gimmick. That pretty much seems like a copy of sorts - so its not that the Chick-Fil-A folks cared so much as their lawyer saw an opportunity to make some cash. It is a legit case. I hate to say it - but in business - logos and what not cant be copied to make profit. But let us know how it goes.
[They can be used for spoofs however]

AND lastly - what part of American life was ever so horrible that we needed change?
Seriously.

If you like, go to Eat More Kale's FB page and watch the 22 minute video of Bo explaining how he got into the t-shirt business and how Eat More Kale got it's name and you'll see that it had nothing to do with Chick-fail-a. Basically CFA thinks it owns the words 'eat more'. Technically they can only claim ownership of the word eat as they mispell 'mor'. Besides, CFA and EMK are two entirely different companies with entirely different products and Bo had never heard CFA until their lawyers sent him a cease and desist order and demanded that all his inventory be sent to Atlanta to be destroyed. This isn't a legitimate violation of a trademark, this is simply a case of corporate greed and paranoia.

Moreover, this is, IMO exactly what's wrong with America. We don't need a politician to save us, all we need to do is invest in ourselves. Bo's story of raising a small business from the ground up is a shining example of what it's like to live the American dream. This is why I share EMK's goal to support local farmers and small businesses. If CFA is successful into bullying EMK out of business then this is a death toll for other small businesses who are too intimidated to start up in fear of being sued by over-zealouls corporate lawyers.

But it's not all bad. A filmaker is making a film about EMK and exposing the corporate bullying of CFA as well as other small businesses, t-shirt sales are up and I'm going to join TEAM KALE and contribute to Bo's defense fund.

There's some other fun stuff on FB. I especially liked how Bo tries to explain to his mom why CFA wanted to shut down his micro-business. She totally couldn't get it.

 

[AMDG]

Actually "copyright infringement" is nothing new. Some places get sued for an out and out copyright infringement of an ad (that anyone could see where it came from) and some get sued when their "copyright infringement" barely looks similar and there's hardly any connection to the one holding the copyright. Even a restaurant by me had to change their name (that they were going under for *years*) because the name was just too close.