Charlie Hebdo

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E.C.

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Remember O Lord thy servants Stephane, Jean, Bernard, Georges, Philippe, Bernard, Mustapha, Elsa, Michel, Frederic, Franck, and Ahmed; grant them rest and may their memories be eternal! :crosseo::crosseo::crosseo::liturgy:



Names taken from the BBC. This thread is for the memories of the victims of those killed during the attack on the headquarters of the French paper "Charlie Hebdo". While I don't know much about it other than that it is satirical and French; it is still quite sad and, frankly, worrisome that such attacks happen outside of the Middle East. Political discussion beyond this post shall result in my requesting for the closure of the thread (there's too many of those these days)
 
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We need to pray the Lord has mercy on them for all the blasphemy they've spewed. If you do a quick Google images search, you'll see images of Christ and the Theotokos being sodomized or having sex with priests, images of Jesus on the Cross that are lampooning our faith like he's having fun up there, all sorts of iconoclastic blasphemy.

These folks should be ashamed of themselves and for the hatred and persecution they've thrown at religious people. I'm not Muslim, but I sympathize with their frustration and anger. NOBODY'S religion should be lampooned, including those with which I disagree.

Lord have mercy on those who died and on the people who still work for this blasphemy factory. Sickening.
 
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~Anastasia~

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We need to pray the Lord has mercy on them for all the blasphemy they've spewed. If you do a quick Google images search, <snip>

These folks should be ashamed of themselves and for the hatred and persecution they've thrown at religious people. I'm not Muslim, but I sympathize with their frustration and anger. NOBODY'S religion should be lampooned, including those with which I disagree.

Lord have mercy on those who died and on the people who still work for this blasphemy factory. Sickening.

I was not aware it was like that. I don't like even reading your description.

I guess it is right to pray for mercy - what else can you ask in a case like that? How horrible ...
 
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Well, my sympathy is pretty much nill for this rag. It's like driving into a Bloods or Crips neighborhood in South Central Los Angeles, flipping your middle finger at the bangers and being shocked when they chase you with AK's and mow you down.

You insult people's religions enough, sooner or later you're going to get the reaction they got. They messed with the wrong religion---ISLAM!

But I applaud the Orthodox Church for condemning the hateful sentiments of this magazine. It's disgusting. Nobody's religion should be slammed to this level and lampooned so shockingly.

If you Google it, you'll be APPALLED!

I hope the Lord forgives them and they can see the God-Man in His Glory whom they have blasphemed and have a second chance....

I was not aware it was like that. I don't like even reading your description.

I guess it is right to pray for mercy - what else can you ask in a case like that? How horrible ...
 
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Winchester

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I agree with Gurney. We can pray for mercy for the individuals who worked for that magazine but Je ne suis pas Charlie, that's for sure.

I totally agree with that. We have to fight islamic extremists but we have always to consider that not all muslims see it the same way like Al Qaida or the religious faschists from the Islamic State. On the other side freedom of free speech is no excuse for liberals, atheists or marxists to offend what is holy for so many people. Here in Germany a lot of people think they can blame and offend every religious or private feelings of other people they don't even try to understand without that such behaviour would have any consequences for them.

With Regards
Winchester
 
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dzheremi

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What gets me most about Charlie Hebdo outside of the violence of the shooting is the stupidity for which these people died. There are so many legitimate criticisms to be made about Islam, particularly regarding its...let's stay complicated relationship to religious violence and (attempted or achieved) political/social control of the societies in which it is practiced, but what do these people decide to do? "Muhammad is stupid", basically. In really raunchy ways, but that's the basic message. "Nyeh nyeh nyeh! We don't like this guy that you like, so here's mud in your eye!" It's juvenile, gross, and not really the hill anyone should die defending. And worse still it makes people who want to have serious discussions about what we can/should do about the religious (particularly Islamic) extremism that plagues the modern age have to try to have them within a framework set up by a bunch of puerile brats, knife/gun-wielding maniacs, and naive "mulitculturalist" bootlickers, none of which care about anything at all beyond having their viewpoints and worldviews indulged to the fullest. Want to tell a cartoonist not to go out of their way to offend people? How dare you! It's a European tradition, you stupid Christian fascist!* Want to tell a Muslim who will kill you for offending his prophet, or doing something else outside the bounds of what his religion allows for that their actions are in no way justifiable, and only bring more collective hatred upon them (just as the cartoonist's actions do, from the Muslim view)? How dare you! It's an Islamic tradition, you dirty kuffar! You can't win. Don't try. Stop playing the secularistists and Islamists game. They're two sides of the same rotten coin.

I'd pray for those involved in the Charlie Hebdo massacre and fallout in the same way that we are to pray for all of our enemies, that they might be shown the mercy upon which we all depend. So, yes, Lord have mercy. But I am not Charlie either. And Muhammad is not God's messenger. And I cannot believe that this is where we are as a civilization at this point.


(*Note: I read an interview with American cartoonist/expatriate in France R. Crumb where that's essentially what he said -- that Charlie Hebdo-esque cartoons aren't something people outside of Europe can understand, because of their deep roots in French history and politics and artistic tradition and blahblahblah...apparently we now not only have to defend them in order to be on the side of "Freedom", but we have to find them to be incredibly deep statements about the world. Yeah, I'm going to pass on that...call me an ugly American all you want, I fail to see what's noble in this hackneyed schlock. It's not worth the paper it's printed on, either as satire or as art or as commentary on religion in the modern world, or as anything at all.)
 
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SeventhValley

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Blasphemy laws never do any good. In Pakistan they are suppose to cover everyone but only Christians get prosecuted for them.

If all religions are protected then no one can say a bad word about anything which is ludicrous.

Blasphemy shows us who the loons are. Only loons get upset over a mockery even of something sacred. Jesus said they do not know what they do and they mocked God directly.

This just shows Islam is dangerous.

My two cents anyways.

Scientologist would want this banned for blasphemy
http://abcnews.go.com/News/film-cla...ged-controversial-practices/story?id=28536165
 
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~Anastasia~

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Blasphemy laws never do any good. In Pakistan they are suppose to cover everyone but only Christians get prosecuted for them.

If all religions are protected then no one can say a bad word about anything which is ludicrous.

Blasphemy shows us who the loons are. Only loons get upset over a mockery even of something sacred. Jesus said they do not know what they do and they mocked God directly.

This just shows Islam is dangerous.

My two cents anyways.

I'm not sure this is a fair characterization. Christ got upset about the money changers in the temple, which in a sense made a mockery of the Temple.

I get upset when people mock things I consider sacred. Of course I'm not going to get violent with them as a result, but it does upset and offend me.

I don't think I'm a loon. I could be. ;) But I don't think so ... :holy:
 
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dzheremi

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Who's calling for blasphemy laws? I hope that's not how my post sounded. I just meant that it's ludicrous that we are expected to stand with a bunch of jerks who are antithetical to our deepest held beliefs in order to show that we believe in "freedom". I completely understand why we can't (and in my view, shouldn't) have blasphemy laws in modern western societies, but even if we cannot get others to see our faith as sacrosanct, can't we still treat it that way ourselves? This is different than saying "Treat Christianity with deference or I'll kill you", as the Islamists do about their religion. I just wanted to say that I don't stand with these people in their blasphemy just because they choose to use their freedom of speech to act like a bunch of juvenile, repugnant idiots who don't care about anything. That's fine if that's their way of living (I hope they will repent before it is too late, but then I also hope that I will repent of my own sins before it is too late, too), but I still do care about my religion. That's not against freedom at all. You have the freedom to be as big of a jerk as you want, and I have the freedom to reject your phoney-baloney "freedom" stances. Are these Charlie Hebdo people going to march for freedom of worship for Christians (or Bahai, or Mandaeans, or whoever) in the Middle East? No. Because they only care about their right to draw stupid cartoons. Fair enough, but I'm not with them.

It's not just Islam versus everybody. It's the shallow, hateful, nihilistic world of the aggressive, radicalized political secularist and the aggressive Islamist alike versus everybody who doesn't want to be dictated to by either of those (which includes all kinds of people).
 
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I was thinking much the same thing, Jeremy! If my death is ever to have meaning, I would want to die confessing Christ or be a martyr trying to make a difference for the Lord! I would want to die protesting injustice or cruelty or atheist persecution or abortion. I'd want to die defending Christian children in Syria persecuted by radical "rebels." I'd want to die confessing Christ. If I am to die, I want my death to be for something substantial. Imagine giving your life so that you can continue to see a magazine publish pictures of the Lord being raped and sodomized. Some lofty legacy to defend and cherish for generations to come...ugh. Yuck these people are evil. I have trouble shedding tears of it all.

What gets me most about Charlie Hebdo outside of the violence of the shooting is the stupidity for which these people died. There are so many legitimate criticisms to be made about Islam, particularly regarding its...let's stay complicated relationship to religious violence and (attempted or achieved) political/social control of the societies in which it is practiced, but what do these people decide to do? "Muhammad is stupid", basically. In really raunchy ways, but that's the basic message. "Nyeh nyeh nyeh! We don't like this guy that you like, so here's mud in your eye!" It's juvenile, gross, and not really the hill anyone should die defending. And worse still it makes people who want to have serious discussions about what we can/should do about the religious (particularly Islamic) extremism that plagues the modern age have to try to have them within a framework set up by a bunch of puerile brats, knife/gun-wielding maniacs, and naive "mulitculturalist" bootlickers, none of which care about anything at all beyond having their viewpoints and worldviews indulged to the fullest. Want to tell a cartoonist not to go out of their way to offend people? How dare you! It's a European tradition, you stupid Christian fascist!* Want to tell a Muslim who will kill you for offending his prophet, or doing something else outside the bounds of what his religion allows for that their actions are in no way justifiable, and only bring more collective hatred upon them (just as the cartoonist's actions do, from the Muslim view)? How dare you! It's an Islamic tradition, you dirty kuffar! You can't win. Don't try. Stop playing the secularistists and Islamists game. They're two sides of the same rotten coin.

I'd pray for those involved in the Charlie Hebdo massacre and fallout in the same way that we are to pray for all of our enemies, that they might be shown the mercy upon which we all depend. So, yes, Lord have mercy. But I am not Charlie either. And Muhammad is not God's messenger. And I cannot believe that this is where we are as a civilization at this point.


(*Note: I read an interview with American cartoonist/expatriate in France R. Crumb where that's essentially what he said -- that Charlie Hebdo-esque cartoons aren't something people outside of Europe can understand, because of their deep roots in French history and politics and artistic tradition and blahblahblah...apparently we now not only have to defend them in order to be on the side of "Freedom", but we have to find them to be incredibly deep statements about the world. Yeah, I'm going to pass on that...call me an ugly American all you want, I fail to see what's noble in this hackneyed schlock. It's not worth the paper it's printed on, either as satire or as art or as commentary on religion in the modern world, or as anything at all.)
 
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I was thinking much the same thing, Jeremy! If my death is ever to have meaning, I would want to die confessing Christ or be a martyr trying to make a difference for the Lord! I would want to die protesting injustice or cruelty or atheist persecution or abortion. I'd want to die defending Christian children in Syria persecuted by radical "rebels." I'd want to die confessing Christ. If I am to die, I want my death to be for something substantial. Imagine giving your life so that you can continue to see a magazine publish pictures of the Lord being raped and sodomized. Some lofty legacy to defend and cherish for generations to come...ugh. Yuck these people are evil. I have trouble shedding tears of it all.

I have to admit ... it seems like a worthless cause to die for.

I'm not agreeable to either side ... but I pray the Lord has mercy on them all.
 
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I have found myself feeling like you do, not agreeable to either side OF LOTS OF THINGS! I used to be so political, passionate about voting, feeling like "my guy" had to get elected to save America from 'the other side' and usher in justice and hope!!!

Now I feel like Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same evil coin and the outcomes are MEANINGLESS!

I feel that way about the "new Cold War" we're in with Russia. Both countries are so utterly flawed in their vision of the way the world should be.

I'm that way with most laws, too.

I think Orthodoxy has that effect on us---it opens our eyes to the HEAVENLY KINGDOM of Christ and how awesome it is, and we look at this temporal kingdom here on Earth that people hold up and laud so high, a humanist triumph, and it seems so utterly small and futile.

I think Orthodoxy makes us rely more on prayer and each other and the Christian Hope than putting our faith in violence or war or armies or politicians. In the end, those things will blow away like flowers in the wind. Only Christ's Kingdom or hell awaits.

I think we Orthodox develop a sort of healthy apathy toward some aspects of pop and political culture. Maybe that's a good thing!

I have to admit ... it seems like a worthless cause to die for.

I'm not agreeable to either side ... but I pray the Lord has mercy on them all.
 
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~Anastasia~

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I have found myself feeling like you do, not agreeable to either side OF LOTS OF THINGS! I used to be so political, passionate about voting, feeling like "my guy" had to get elected to save America from 'the other side' and usher in justice and hope!!!

Now I feel like Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same evil coin and the outcomes are MEANINGLESS!

I feel that way about the "new Cold War" we're in with Russia. Both countries are so utterly flawed in their vision of the way the world should be.

I'm that way with most laws, too.

I think Orthodoxy has that effect on us---it opens our eyes to the HEAVENLY KINGDOM of Christ and how awesome it is, and we look at this temporal kingdom here on Earth that people hold up and laud so high, a humanist triumph, and it seems so utterly small and futile.

I think Orthodoxy makes us rely more on prayer and each other and the Christian Hope than putting our faith in violence or war or armies or politicians. In the end, those things will blow away like flowers in the wind. Only Christ's Kingdom or hell awaits.

I think we Orthodox develop a sort of healthy apathy toward some aspects of pop and political culture. Maybe that's a good thing!


Hmmmm. I see my opinions changing in the same way you describe. I used to see things as black and white - I always knew which side was in the "right". Now I look around, and everything is fallen and wrong, really. Sometimes one side is more right than the other. But everything needs redeeming. It's not as hopeless as it sounds though? Somehow I feel MORE hope ... or maybe it's more confidence. My hope now is in God, and I pray for His mercy, and I know in the end it all comes down to Him. I'm not looking for any ideology or politician to "save" the situation. I know only God can do that, ultimately. But therein lies the reason for my confidence. :)

Maybe you've put your finger on the reason why I seem to be going that way, though. ;)
 
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