Certificate of Debt

[Hammster]

Here is some history.









So what say you? And what of what is recorded in John 3:16 (and elsewhere)?

God has not extended His love to all people. Scripture is rife with examples.

 

[DingDing]

God has not extended His love to all people. Scripture is rife with examples.

So what is your interpretation of scriptures like John 3:16? So, in your view, God really does not love the world?

 

[Hammster]

So what is your interpretation of scriptures like John 3:16? So, in your view, God really does not love the world?

Obviously God loves the world. You are assuming that "world" in v 16 means every person who ever lived. We can see from scripture that this doesn't hold up. Even in the passage itself, God only gives eternal life to those who are believing. If His love was truly unconditional, everyone would have eternal life.

I think the HCSB has a great translation of this verse.

““For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭HCSB‬‬

 

[DingDing]

Obviously God loves the world. You are assuming that "world" in v 16 means every person who ever lived. We can see from scripture that this doesn't hold up. Even in the passage itself, God only gives eternal life to those who are believing. If His love was truly unconditional, everyone would have eternal life.

I think the HCSB has a great translation of this verse.

““For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭HCSB‬‬

And how does this deny anything I have said?

 

[Hammster]

And how does this deny anything I have said?

You seem to believe that "world" means everyone who ever lived. If that's incorrect, then I'm not sure where you disagree with me.

 

[EmSw]

We only believe through grace. Grace is God's unmerited favor to us that results in our being saved.

Acts 15:11
But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Acts 18:27
And when he desired to cross to Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him; and when he arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace;

You only give a part of grace, the part you like.

Proverbs 3:34
Surely He scorns the scornful, but gives grace to the humble.

Titus 2
11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,
12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,

 

[ToBeLoved]

God has not extended His love to all people. Scripture is rife with examples.

[Staff edit]

I think you need to remember that God loved us first. When we were still sinners. [Staff edit].

God's love is unconditional love. It is not based upon who we are, but the fact that we are His creation. Why would God create a creation that He did not love? Even in carnal thinking that doesn't make any sense. And if the Bible is true and God IS LOVE, then is it possible for God not to love?

1 John 4:9-11
9 This is how God’s love was revealed among us: God sent His one and only Son into the world, so that we might live through Him. 10 And love consists in this: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

1 John 4:8
8 Whoever does not love does not know God,because God is love.

There needs to become a point where you start looking at God's Word for what it says. Not create your own definitions for words to fit into your theology.

 

[Hammster]

I think you need to remember that God loved us first. When we were still sinners. [Staff edit].

God's love is unconditional love. It is not based upon who we are, but the fact that we are His creation. Why would God create a creation that He did not love? Even in carnal thinking that doesn't make any sense. And if the Bible is true and God IS LOVE, then is it possible for God not to love?

1 John 4:9-11
9 This is how God’s love was revealed among us: God sent His one and only Son into the world, so that we might live through Him. 10 And love consists in this: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

1 John 4:8
8 Whoever does not love does not know God,because God is love.

There needs to become a point where you start looking at God's Word for what it says. Not create your own definitions for words to fit into your theology.

I've looked at His word in context. The verses you provided do not support your claim. Those aren't general letters to all of humanity.

Plus, if His love is without conditions, then there is no need for hell.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I've looked at His word in context. The verses you provided do not support your claim. Those aren't general letters to all of humanity.

Plus, if His love is without conditions, then there is no need for hell.

What books of the Bible are 'general letters to all humanity'?

I've never heard such a thing. Are you serious? What percentage of non-Christians are avid Bible readers and which books would they choose?

 

[ToBeLoved]

I've looked at His word in context. The verses you provided do not support your claim. Those aren't general letters to all of humanity.

Plus, if His love is without conditions, then there is no need for hell.

How can you get around scripture that says "God loved us first, when we were STILL SINNERS (That is before salvation. The exact same boat those who are not saved are in). This is ludacris theology. I can't believe you would even say such a thing about this verse.

 

[Hammster]

What books of the Bible are 'general letters to all humanity'?

None are. That's my point. You are quoting them as if they are.

 

[Hammster]

How can you get around scripture that says "God loved us first, when we were STILL SINNERS (That is before salvation. The exact same boat those who are not saved are in). This is ludacris theology. I can't believe you would even say such a thing about this verse.

Remember, not General letters. The "us" is specific to the audience.

 

[ToBeLoved]

None are. That's my point. You are quoting them as if they are.

No. may books in the Bi le contrast what believers are and compare it to non-believers. It shows us the difference in ourselves before salvation vs after salvation. That is not uncommon at all, especially for Paul's epistles.

 

[Hammster]

No. may books in the Bi le contrast what believers are and compare it to non-believers. It shows us the difference in ourselves before salvation vs after salvation. That is not uncommon at all, especially for Paul's epistles.

Except that's not what's happening in the verses you are quoting. He's specifically referring to "us" as believers. He nowhere indicates that it is universal.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Except that's not what's happening in the verses you are quoting. He's specifically referring to "us" as believers. He nowhere indicates that it is universal.

No.

I quoted God so loved the world and that Jesus conquered sin. Now to conquer is to dissolve. Kill. Ect in this verse.

So those are the two verses I want to analyze.

 

[Hammster]

No.

I quoted God so loved the world and that Jesus conquered sin. Now to conquer is to dissolve. Kill. Ect in this verse.

Where is that verse? I don't think it's in scripture.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

So what is your interpretation of scriptures like John 3:16? So, in your view, God really does not love the world?

In what context are you referring to , world?

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Conquered is the wrong word then for what you think Christ did then. He allocated then for some sin.
[Staff edit]

Please post the scripture wherein Jesus said his death would only cover allocated sins.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Back temp. to give you the verses.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+2:14&version=ESV
Hebrews 2:14
Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,


2 Timothy 1:10
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:


Hebrew 9:26
" he has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself".

 

[ToBeLoved]

In what context are you referring to , world?

No. Hammster said that, I was asking him how he could believe that.