Celibate LGBT people

[SnowyMacie]

After seeing some recent comments and threads on here, I've become curious about some of the views that I've seen so I decided to make my own thread about this. I'm curious on what are your views on people who are attracted to the same sex, but since they believe acting on those attractions are sinful, they remain celibate for life. My question is this: Do you believe that they are still committing the sin of homosexuality* in this circumstance? Why?

*Please try to keep lust out of the conversation, I'm speaking strictly about homosexuality.

 

[Tinyarch]

Leave off the LGBT part. Celibacy is celibacy, regardless of whom you are attracted to. God says to remain celibate until the one man and one woman consumate their union with sex as an act of worship. Let no one separate what God puts together. That is the will of God. Anything else is a twisted perversion, which God calls "sin."

 

[Sketcher]

How you're tempted doesn't make you the sinner. The temptations you say "yes" to do. This is for any sin.

 

[JeffofGallifrey]

I don't see homosexuality as sinful, but either way, wanting to do something is not the same as doing it.

 

[CodyFaith]

Romans 1:26-17
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

The attraction itself is clearly condemned in scripture as well as the acts. It's in someone's power to change these things. I know from personal experience, I had bisexual desires for a long period of my life, when I came to God I repented of my desires, and in time with a lot of repentance, a lot of changing how I think about sex and desiring to do God's will, the desires went away and they are now completely gone. Not repressed, I literally have no attraction to the same sex now and find the idea revolting. I'm not ashamed of my past though, because God has cleansed me of all sin in Christ.

Telling a gay person or a bisexual person to repent of their sins is not really a thing I would practice though. One needs to come to Christ and when they're in Christ repent and seek God's will for their lives... it's something they will need to want to do on their own. The reason all these conversion therapies and such are so disgusting are because they're trying to force a person who is not ready to change, and trying to convince them of something they themselves aren't convinced of. This is a personal journey they must come to on their own. People can help by putting these scriptures out there, and tell them that if they want to change there is indeed a path where they can... but it's ultimately up to them.

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

Homosexuality is a sexual preference. I don't think preferring the same sex is a sin but acting on that preference is the sin. Sure one could say that any time you get even an inkling of an urge of sin you have sinned but thats not reasonable and we can't be held accountable for random thoughts that occur in the mind. I think God holds us accountable for our behavior more so than random urges. So in short if you prefer the same sex but don't act on it then this person has not sinned.

I also want to point out though that just because someone is physically attracted to the same sex is not sin but if they spend their time lusting after the same sex then its sin. You can have a sexual preference that you don't spend time lusting after. Obviously it would be difficulty for a homosexual not to lust after the same sex like it is hard for heterosexuals to not lust after the opposite sex but not everyone is filled with lust. However I think everyone has lust in their heart to some degree theres no way to destroy it till christ gives us our new heavenly bodies and minds..

 

[Archie the Preacher]

All the references in the Bible regarding this refers to the actions involved. To 'homosexuality' not to individuals.

Celibacy is celibacy, whether one is avoiding sexual encounters with 'this' one or 'that' one.

The only possible exception to my comments is where Jesus, in the "Sermon on the Mount" (Matthew Five) said essentially holding the desire to sin in one's heart is equivalent to the sin itself. From that, one infers 'wanting to and refraining because it is wrong' is different than 'wanting to and afraid of being caught' or 'wanting to but not having the determination'.

One also infers Jesus is discussing 'sin' as a bar to 'merit in God's eyes' being a ground for salvation vice 'sin' as a bar to God's Grace and Salvation.

One finds no argument or grounds in the New Testament for denying repentance and forgiveness of God to a person who has committed any sort of sexual sin, either hetero- or homo- sexual.

Indeed, refusing to deal with a person with homosexual urges at all completely blocks transmitting the Gospel to one who needs it. (The same can be said for any number of conditions, including poor bodily hygiene and felony convictions.)

 

[Rhapsody]

I think should you go to heaven with these feelings, you'd simply not have finished the finishable work of overcoming, of being made ready for living face to face and mind to mind with God. The Bible says all will have overcome something, and there won't be any more struggles against yourself to contend with then, and none from outside. Those who are in that process now, well, we can't read each other's minds, obviously.

 

[Greg J.]

The attraction itself is clearly condemned in scripture as well as the acts.

No, it isn't. This is not the case for any sin. That passage must be read in the context of all of Scripture.

One cannot sin against God in ways that one as no control over. We are all, without exception, the product of sin, which makes us all less than perfectly pure. We become pure only in Christ. (The full meaning of being in Christ includes that we never sin. 1 John has a lot about this.)

 

[CodyFaith]

No, it isn't. This is not the case for any sin. That passage must be read in the context of all of Scripture.

One cannot sin against God in ways that one as no control over. We are all, without exception, the product of sin, which makes us all less than perfectly pure. We become pure only in Christ. (The full meaning of being in Christ includes that we never sin. 1 John has a lot about this.)

"Vile affections" isn't clear enough?

Like I said in my post, it is something you have control over, if it weren't then I would have never been able to repent. I was actually able to see the sin gradually disappear in my own eyes due to my efforts, desire for it to be rid of, and repentance. It took time, but it did go away completely.

Saying that we no longer sin because we're in Christ is no excuse to sin. While it's true that our sin nature is the one sinning and it's no longer us, scripture tells us in many places not to sin after having been justified. While there are some sins that are stubborn and some sins that will remain for quite a while, that doesn't mean we don't actively strive to rid ourselves from these sins, pray for them to be rid of, etc.
For example, lust for a woman is sin, but I dare say that no man in this life will overcome that sin because it's so strong. God knows that sin is strong, in fact many places in scripture man's lust for a woman is shown as a very strong force. But notice God doesn't call it a vile affection. In fact, before calling homosexual desire a vile affection, Paul writes that they actually left their natural desire for woman. Notice Paul calls that desire natural.
You really believe that something that is called a vile affection, something that is detestable, is something we can't be rid of? If you seek to rid yourself of homosexual desires, it will take time, but if you truly want them gone you can rid yourself of it. It's up to the person who has them, and whether they want it gone or not, how strongly they desire for it to be rid of.

1 Corinthians 6:12-13
All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.

 

[Greg J.]

Repentance is to agree with God about what is sin from your heart. Has your repentance brought you to a place where you no longer sin? If not, why do you expect otherwise from anyone else?

 

[ken777]

"Vile affections" isn't clear enough?

Like I said in my post, it is something you have control over, if it weren't then I would have never been able to repent. I was actually able to see the sin gradually disappear in my own eyes due to my efforts, desire for it to be rid of, and repentance. It took time, but it did go away completely.

Saying that we no longer sin because we're in Christ is no excuse to sin. While it's true that our sin nature is the one sinning and it's no longer us, scripture tells us in many places not to sin after having been justified. While there are some sins that are stubborn and some sins that will remain for quite a while, that doesn't mean we don't actively strive to rid ourselves from these sins, pray for them to be rid of, etc.
For example, lust for a woman is sin, but I dare say that no man in this life will overcome that sin because it's so strong. God knows that sin is strong, in fact many places in scripture man's lust for a woman is shown as a very strong force. But notice God doesn't call it a vile affection. In fact, before calling homosexual desire a vile affection, Paul writes that they actually left their natural desire for woman. Notice Paul calls that desire natural.
You really believe that something that is called a vile affection, something that is detestable, is something we can't be rid of? If you seek to rid yourself of homosexual desires, it will take time, but if you truly want them gone you can rid yourself of it. It's up to the person who has them, and whether they want it gone or not, how strongly they desire for it to be rid of.

1 Corinthians 6:12-13
All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.

I admire your testimony in post #5, but did you really mean to say I literally have no attraction to the opposite sex now.

From my experience of reparative therapy it is easier for people who are bisexual to make a shift to only opposite sex attraction. Of course, for the Christian, prayer & faith can bring complete healing & deliverance from any sinful condition.

Romans 1:26 is relevant because "pathe" (translated "affections" in KJV) can refer to feelings & emotions. In Romans 1:27 Paul uses a stronger word (orexei) which is translated as "lust".

In Romans 1:29-31 Paul lists a number of sins, all of which require that first we have the thought and then we act upon it. All of these thoughts are ungodly , including SSA, and should be repented of. We are blessed in that our God has provided a full & complete atonement: the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin. (1 John 1:7)

 

[CodyFaith]

I admire your testimony in post #5, but did you really mean to say I literally have no attraction to the opposite sex now.

From my experience of reparative therapy it is easier for people who are bisexual to make a shift to only opposite sex attraction. Of course, for the Christian, prayer & faith can bring complete healing & deliverance from any sinful condition.

Romans 1:26 is relevant because "pathe" (translated "affections" in KJV) can refer to feelings & emotions. In Romans 1:27 Paul uses a stronger word (orexei) which is translated as "lust".

In Romans 1:29-31 Paul lists a number of sins, all of which require that first we have the thought and then we act upon it. All of these thoughts are ungodly , including SSA, and should be repented of. We are blessed in that our God has provided a full & complete atonement: the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin. (1 John 1:7)

Whoops I meant same sex of course.

 

[CodyFaith]

Repentance is to agree with God about what is sin from your heart. Has your repentance brought you to a place where you no longer sin? If not, why do you expect otherwise from anyone else?

I no longer sin in that area or have those desires.

 

[Ave Maria]

Being attracted to the same sex is not sinful. Only acting on those attractions or temptations is what is sinful. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 3 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 2 ARTICLE 6

These links will also be of assistance on the subject of homosexuality:

Homosexuality | Catholic Answers

Early Teachings on Homosexuality | Catholic Answers

Does the Church condemn people with homosexual inclinations? | Catholic Answers

Real Love for Homosexuals | Catholic Answers

 

[ken777]

Being attracted to the same sex is not sinful. Only acting on those attractions or temptations is what is sinful. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 3 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 2 ARTICLE 6

These links will also be of assistance on the subject of homosexuality:

Homosexuality | Catholic Answers

Early Teachings on Homosexuality | Catholic Answers

Does the Church condemn people with homosexual inclinations? | Catholic Answers

Real Love for Homosexuals | Catholic Answers

What do you understand these words to mean:
"This inclination, which is objectively disordered ..."

 

[SilverBear]

"Vile affections" isn't clear enough?

Like I said in my post, it is something you have control over, if it weren't then I would have never been able to repent. I was actually able to see the sin gradually disappear in my own eyes due to my efforts, desire for it to be rid of, and repentance. It took time, but it did go away completely.

Saying that we no longer sin because we're in Christ is no excuse to sin. While it's true that our sin nature is the one sinning and it's no longer us, scripture tells us in many places not to sin after having been justified. While there are some sins that are stubborn and some sins that will remain for quite a while, that doesn't mean we don't actively strive to rid ourselves from these sins, pray for them to be rid of, etc.
For example, lust for a woman is sin, but I dare say that no man in this life will overcome that sin because it's so strong. God knows that sin is strong, in fact many places in scripture man's lust for a woman is shown as a very strong force. But notice God doesn't call it a vile affection. In fact, before calling homosexual desire a vile affection, Paul writes that they actually left their natural desire for woman. Notice Paul calls that desire natural.
You really believe that something that is called a vile affection, something that is detestable, is something we can't be rid of? If you seek to rid yourself of homosexual desires, it will take time, but if you truly want them gone you can rid yourself of it. It's up to the person who has them, and whether they want it gone or not, how strongly they desire for it to be rid of.

1 Corinthians 6:12-13
All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.

historically this passage in Romans has been used to denounce and vilify just about everyone: Jews, bastard children, women, blacks, slaves, politicians, divorced people, convicts, religious reformers, and the mentally ill. In this generation it is being used to target homosexuals. I'm sure that will change too.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

historically this passage in Romans has been used to denounce and vilify just about everyone: Jews, bastard children, women, blacks, slaves, politicians, divorced people, convicts, religious reformers, and the mentally ill. In this generation it is being used to target homosexuals. I'm sure that will change too.

I collect guns. No doubt someone or group will identify that as a 'vile affection' as well.

 

[SilverBear]

I collect guns. No doubt someone or group will identify that as a 'vile affection' as well.

Yes, you are the true victim here.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Yes, you are the true victim here.

I'm not sure if that is sympathy or satire. Either way, what I'm saying is 'good folks' will get rather strange ideas about many things and then find A verse, usually out of context to justify their goofy thought.

I also add since I live in concert with Christ (within the limitations of a rather fallible human), "public opinion" has little effect on my life as a whole. Therefore, I do not think in 'victim' terms, usually. I am not a victim, even though some attempt to victimize me for any number of reasons.