Catholics Joining The Episcopal Church

ebia

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PaladinValer said:
It is really hard to tell from the outside.

In the end, while everyone has a preference, attending liturgy is most important.

What they call the main service is a good give away if specified, on a scale from high to low:
Mass
Eucharist
Holy Communion
Lord's Supper
 
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PaladinValer

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Lutherans are confessionalists: The Book of Concord is not unlike the Catechism of the Catholic Church: everything is spelled out and very reasonably argued.

Anglicans are more "mystical." While we do have catechism, we believe what we pray. The Liturgy is central to our theology; whatever we do, sing, chant, or say, we believe.
 
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MKJ

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Ok. I am still unclear how that theologically works out esp. vs. Lutheranism. I need simple terms and concepts.

Confesional Lutherans have a large and specific document outlining the basic, fundamental tenents of Lutheranism. Members are expected to more or less agree with that document to call themselves Lutherans. Practically speaking of course there are various views on it, but that is recognized as the basic outline of Lutheranism.

Anglicans don't have anything like that. In the past we have accepted Scripture as our normative "document" interpreted through Tradition and also Reason (both, not one or the other). It is very similar in some ways to the Orthodox position, except that Scripture is what we weigh Tradition and Reason against when we have questions or disputes.

As far as the Anglican aspect of Tradition, we have the writings of Anglican theologians, documents like the 39 Articles, but most especially the liturgy. In the past, the liturgy has really been the lens that we use to understand and explain Anglican theology. Again, not unlike Orthodoxy.

This is less effective these days, as there are quite a number of different Anglican liturgies, and they are generally seen as reflecting the views of the congregation rather than shaping them.
 
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Maid Marie

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Lutherans are confessionalists: The Book of Concord is not unlike the Catechism of the Catholic Church: everything is spelled out and very reasonably argued.

Anglicans are more "mystical." While we do have catechism, we believe what we pray. The Liturgy is central to our theology; whatever we do, sing, chant, or say, we believe.
hmm...water is a little less murky...

I made an outline of this in detail (I studied in a Lutheran seminary) on this forum just in the last week or three.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7556357/#post57372838
I really liked this post but for other reasons :) I have never really understood all the nuances of Lutheranism but didn't know where to be in asking.

Confesional Lutherans have a large and specific document outlining the basic, fundamental tenents of Lutheranism. Members are expected to more or less agree with that document to call themselves Lutherans. Practically speaking of course there are various views on it, but that is recognized as the basic outline of Lutheranism.

Anglicans don't have anything like that. In the past we have accepted Scripture as our normative "document" interpreted through Tradition and also Reason (both, not one or the other). It is very similar in some ways to the Orthodox position, except that Scripture is what we weigh Tradition and Reason against when we have questions or disputes.

As far as the Anglican aspect of Tradition, we have the writings of Anglican theologians, documents like the 39 Articles, but most especially the liturgy. In the past, the liturgy has really been the lens that we use to understand and explain Anglican theology. Again, not unlike Orthodoxy.

This is less effective these days, as there are quite a number of different Anglican liturgies, and they are generally seen as reflecting the views of the congregation rather than shaping them.
This might explain why my interest has been greater in the TEC church service than in the Lutheran one. By that I mean, 18 months ago when I got fed up with the rock music [et al] at my Nazarene church, I checked out the ELCA and TEC in my area. The ELCA service really did not do much for me but the service at TEC spoke to my heart.

Thanks for your help, all!
 
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Franny50

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I believe in the Immaculate Conception Of Mary(that she was born without original sin)and in the virgin birth.Although I have rarely prayed to the saints,I have prayed for mary's Intercession.Where does that leave me in terms of the Epicopal church.Would my beliefs be considered heretical?
 
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higgs2

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I believe in the Immaculate Conception Of Mary(that she was born without original sin)and in the virgin birth.Although I have rarely prayed to the saints,I have prayed for mary's Intercession.Where does that leave me in terms of the Epicopal church.Would my beliefs be considered heretical?

Nah. We don't care. some agree some don't.
 
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VolRaider

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I believe in the Immaculate Conception Of Mary(that she was born without original sin)and in the virgin birth.Although I have rarely prayed to the saints,I have prayed for mary's Intercession.Where does that leave me in terms of the Epicopal church.Would my beliefs be considered heretical?

Hi, Franny! Despite the UMC logo above, I grew up in TEC.
Anglicans can either accept or deny the Immaculate Conception. Personally, I don't take a position on it. It's simply not central to my faith.

Same with praying to Mary or other saints. Most Anglicans do not do this, but some do. I don't believe many of us consider it heretical despite what the 39 Articles say (they are not binding).
 
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PaladinValer

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I believe in the Immaculate Conception Of Mary(that she was born without original sin)and in the virgin birth.Although I have rarely prayed to the saints,I have prayed for mary's Intercession.Where does that leave me in terms of the Epicopal church.Would my beliefs be considered heretical?

We don't acknowledge the Immaculate Conception of St. Mary, although we don't officially decry it either. For us, it is a pious opinion at most.

Saintly veneration is however a part of our Anglican tradition.

I personally disagree with the Immaculate Conception (which may come as a major surprise to a lot of my fellow Anglo-Catholics here), but I don't think it heretical. You will be find the Anglican Communion to be a happy home. :)
 
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namaste8715

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I believe in the Immaculate Conception Of Mary(that she was born without original sin)and in the virgin birth.Although I have rarely prayed to the saints,I have prayed for mary's Intercession.Where does that leave me in terms of the Epicopal church.Would my beliefs be considered heretical?


Hi Franny!

I'm surprised nobody here has pointed you to the Catechism of the Episcopal Church for answers, from the Book of Common Prayer.

As I'm a newbie, the forum isn't allowing me to post the link to it... but if you google "Episcopal Book of Common Prayer," it's the link that contains bcponline . org.

I am also an ex-Catholic. I was baptized into the Roman Catholic Church, and left when I was an adult for an Episcopalian Church. I spoke with an Episcopal priest about my concerns before hand - and he was so incredibly kind and helpful. I suggest if you've not done so, to do so.

As an Episcopalian, I do pray to Mary. Not all Episcopalians agree with me, but I find a lot of comfort and solace in prayer to the Holy Mother. The beauty of the Episcopal faith is that you absolutely have the option to reason for yourself what is best for your own faith.

As for confession, in general, the "rule" for Episcopalians is: None must, all may, some should. If you feel strongly that you need a true one-on-one confession, all Episcopal priests are willing and able to offer you the reconciliation of a pentinent. All you have to do is ask. In additon, we recite the Act of Contrition at every service before the Eucharist.

I hope this helps, and I hope you're on your way to making a positive decision for what is best for your faith, if you haven't already.
 
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Franny50

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Thanks Namaste.I read exerpts from The Book Of Common Prayer,but did not find anything on The Immaculate Conception.I will look again online.And yes that is one of the things I love about the Episcopal church,the freedom to worship according to ones beliefs.
 
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file13

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Ok. I am still unclear how that theologically works out esp. vs. Lutheranism. I need simple terms and concepts.

I think the confusion comes from how things historically worked out. The 39 Articles really were intended as an English Reformation confession of faith for the English Church, and at least on paper, the Church of England still makes their priests swear to uphold them in their ordinations.

The thing is, the "communion" experienced what's called latitudinarianism. The idea here was that "non-essentials" should not be given too much importance and that if they're not prohibited, they should be allowed. This went hand and hand with the view that the Articles can be interpreted in various ways and that they allow a lot of freedom of interpretation. So it was argued, for example, that even though article 28 literally reflects a Reformed POV, it can be interpreted to allow for other views like the Lutheran view of consubstantiation. The thing is, the Articles explicitly say that they are to be interpreted literally, so you see, the latitudinarians went against against the Articles themselves to allow this and ended up leading people to abandon the Articles as an English confession of faith.

Now I don't know if you consider this a good or bad thing, but the point is, ever since this, the idea in much of the Anglican world has been that the 39 Articles are either not binding at all (the Episcopal Church for example dosen't require priests to uphold them and has them listed with the "historical documents" in the current BCP), or that they can be interpreted in many different ways--just don't read them in their "plain and full meaning." This in turn leads to the notion of lex orandi, lex crendandi to fill the vacuum left by a lack of a formal statement of faith. The idea is that since we don't have a formal statement, our theology can be found in what's implied in the worship services of the prayerbook.

So you could say have we have two different views in the church. One side still holds to the historical post reformation view that the Articles are "our confession." One side holds to the latitudinarian or Broad church POV that we either don't have one at all or that we can interpret things in various ways to allows for various POVs. This is an imperfect simplification (because some conservative Anglo-Catholics don't necessarily fit into either group), but I think it might be helpful to see why you have some folks saying we do have a formal statement of beliefs and others who don't. :)
 
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No Swansong

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How common is it for catholics to join the episcopal church.My maternal grandparents were episcopalian and I attended both churches growing up,but do not follow all of the catholic teachings.Would I have to be reconfirmed?

From what I have read of you Franny I think you might find a very comfortable home in the AC in general.

I personally do not believe that Mary was Immaculately conceived but it isn't a deal breaker in the AC. There is a great diversity in the AC. I for example would be most accurately described as a Reformed Evangelical however I make and send Rosaries to Roman Catholic missionaries. I also tie Orthodox Prayer Ropes and send them to Orthodox parishes to give to their parishioners.

At one time it was important to me to be able to explain what appears to many as a Dichotomy. Now I simply don't bother to try.

As mentioned in the other thread I would simply advise you that you don't need to be in a hurry and to spend time in prayer and contemplation. And yes there are many former Roman Catholics in TEC and in the AC.

May you be blessed my friend.
 
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