Catholics have filled the internet with venom and vitriol, says Vatican media advisor

[MikeK]

Radical Traditionalists? To me the word radical is an attempt to negatively characterize people who hold to the Traditions of the Church. It is in the same vain as calling Traditionalists fundamentalists. Why not just say Traditionalists.

Not all traditionalists are radical. There is a significant group of them who are nutty though, what should we call them? I've heard people make simular objections to yours regarding terms like militant feminists. Some feminists are militant feminists and it is good to draw that distinction.

 

[pdudgeon]

Radical Traditionalists? To me the word radical is an attempt to negatively characterize people who hold to the Traditions of the Church. It is in the same vain as calling Traditionalists fundamentalists. Why not just say Traditionalists.

or let's be really radical here, and remember that indulging in broad-brushed criticism of our brothers and sisters in Christ is a valid reason to visit the confessional ASAP.

 

[Michie]

or let's be really radical here, and remember that indulging in broad-brushed criticism of our brothers and sisters in Christ is a valid reason to visit the confessional ASAP.

The cesspool is not just created by what people call traditionalists. That is for sure.

 

[concretecamper]

Not all traditionalists are radical. There is a significant group of them who are nutty though, what should we call them? I've heard people make simular objections to yours regarding terms like militant feminists. Some feminists are militant feminists and it is good to draw that distinction.

So can you provide an example for me where you would call someone a traditionalist vs a radical traditionalist?

 

[pdudgeon]

The cesspool is not just created by what people call traditionalists. That is for sure.

of course not.
Sin or the opportunity to sin against our brothers and sisters in Christ is not limited to any group of people. That's why we ought to remember the boomerang effect--if we don't want it said against us, then don't say it against others.

It's just that simple.

 

[MikeK]

or let's be really radical here, and remember that indulging in broad-brushed criticism of our brothers and sisters in Christ is a valid reason to visit the confessional ASAP.

Sincere criticism of errant brethren is not a sin.

 

[pdudgeon]

Sincere criticism of errant brethren is not a sin.

providing that
1. the person doing the criticizing is in a position of authority over the person they are criticizing.
2. the reason that the criticism is proffered is to enlighten and enable the person who is being criticized to make beneficial changes.
3. the criticism is offered with grace, not judgement.

 

[MikeK]

So can you provide an example for me where you would call someone a traditionalist vs a radical traditionalist?

The OP laid it out pretty clearly, I think. Traditionalists hold to all of the teachings of the Church and likely have a preference for the Latin Mass and ancient customs. They also fully recognize Pope Francis as a legitimate Pope and give him the reverence he is due. They accept that the NO is a fully valid Mass.

Radical traditionalists are those that believe that Pope Francis is a heretic or an invalid Pope, or that there is a vast homosexual freemason UN coup in the Vatican, or the Pope Benedict was made to resign and is being held against his will, or that Jews are secretly running the world, and on and on.

 

[MikeK]

providing that
1. the person doing the criticizing is in a position of authority over the person they are criticizing.

There is no such requirement. Cite it if you believe otherwise.

the reason for the criticism is proffered is to enlighten and enable the person who is being criticized to make beneficial changes.

That seems to be the case here. The OP is pointing out that not all traditionalists reject our Pope or subscribe to crazy conspiracies.

the criticism is offered with grace, not judgement.

There is nothing wrong with judging behaviors, that is what you're seeing here. Nobody is suggesting that anyone is sinning.

....well, those radical traditionalists who say that Pope Francis is a heretic are accusing someone of sinning, but I was talking about the OP.

 

[Truthfrees]

MOD HAT

Starting at post 33, posts have been moved from a duplicate thread to this thread as per Staff Review.

 

[concretecamper]

The OP laid it out pretty clearly, I think. Traditionalists hold to all of the teachings of the Church and likely have a preference for the Latin Mass and ancient customs. They also fully recognize Pope Francis as a legitimate Pope and give him the reverence he is due. They accept that the NO is a fully valid Mass.

Radical traditionalists are those that believe that Pope Francis is a heretic or an invalid Pope, or that there is a vast homosexual freemason UN coup in the Vatican, or the Pope Benedict was made to resign and is being held against his will, or that Jews are secretly running the world, and on and on.

Seems to me that from your description the term radical should stand alone. I've seen article posted on Spirit Daily from non traditionalists thay claim this stuff.

Maybe there is another agenda to the term " radical traditionalists"

 

[MikeK]

Seems to me that from your description the term radical should stand alone. I've seen article posted on Spirit Daily from non traditionalists thay claim this stuff.

Maybe there is another agenda to the term " radical traditionalists"

The specific radicals we're talking about happen to be traditionalists though. If they were radical liberals I would not object to them being called such. I've seen non-feminists that held some pretty bizarre militant views. I'm not about to stop calling militant feminists militant feminists because some non-feminists are militants.

 

[St Antony]

No one usually starts out intending to spew venom and vitriol, however, the current political climate in this country and some of the venom and vitriol that comes from the other side, it's often easy to fall into bad habits.

 

[Martinius]

No one usually starts out intending to spew venom and vitriol, however, the current political climate in this country and some of the venom and vitriol that comes from the other side, it's often easy to fall into bad habits.

I am sorry but I have to disagree. When we are talking about blogs and articles where the author has time to decide what words to use and what to say, the "venom and vitriol" is still there. It is a fact of life in these times when more and more people have jettisoned common courtesies and respect. You cannot blame one side or the other, it has become universal.

 

[Open Heart]

So can you provide an example for me where you would call someone a traditionalist vs a radical traditionalist?

A regular traditionalist is not going to go around calling the Pope a diabolical narcissist or a f*g hag. There is a difference between disagreeing with the pope and vilely attacking him.

 

[concretecamper]

I've never seen any of those terms used to describe the current Pope. Do you remember the source of either one?

 

[MikeK]

I've never seen any of those terms used to describe the current Pope. Do you remember the source of either one?

I haven't seen him called those things, but I don't read such blogs. I have seen him accused of heresies on this forum, I have seen him called a socialist on this forum, I have seen people suggest that Pope Benedict was pressured to resign and is being held against his will in this forum, I have seen allegations of Freemasons taking over the Vatican (and of Pope Francis being in cahoots with them) in this forum.

 

[MikeK]

@concretecamper

Okay, so I did some googling because I was curious and I prefer to attempt to educate myself rather than ask for sources...

There's this:

A prime example of a Diabolical Narcissist using accusations of mental instability against his enemies is Pope Francis.

from here:

http://www.barnhardt.biz/2016/03/06/diabolical-narcissism-gaslighting/

The ".... Hag" comments seem to originate here (warning, this is some seriously depraved garbage)

http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/2015/07/ann-barnhardt-part-iv-pope-sodomites.html?m=1

I also stumbled upon this:

That is the context for Francis’ response:

So, with regard to the diaconate, yes, I agree and it seems to me it would be useful to have a commission to clarify this well, especially with regard to the early times of the Church.

How very humble! So, is the tail is wagging the dog here, or is the dog just looking for another excuse to relieve himself all over our Catholic carpet?

Let’s not be naïve – no one is wagging Francis’ tail; the man is a dictator.

here:

https://akacatholic.com/the-make-a-mess-pope-strikes-again/

I hope that this education enlightens you.

 

[pdudgeon]

@concretecamper

Okay, so I did some googling because I was curious and I prefer to attempt to educate myself to begging for sources...

There's this:

A prime example of a Diabolical Narcissist using accusations of mental instability against his enemies is Pope Francis.

from here:

http://www.barnhardt.biz/2016/03/06/diabolical-narcissism-gaslighting/

The ".... Hag" comments seem to originate here (warning, this is some seriously depraved garbage)

http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/2015/07/ann-barnhardt-part-iv-pope-sodomites.html?m=1

I also stumbled upon this:

That is the context for Francis’ response:

So, with regard to the diaconate, yes, I agree and it seems to me it would be useful to have a commission to clarify this well, especially with regard to the early times of the Church.

How very humble! So, is the tail is wagging the dog here, or is the dog just looking for another excuse to relieve himself all over our Catholic carpet?

Let’s not be naïve – no one is wagging Francis’ tail; the man is a dictator.

here:

https://akacatholic.com/the-make-a-mess-pope-strikes-again/

I hope that this education enlightens you.

was this ^^^ meant to be a PM rather than a post by any chance?

 

[MikeK]

was this ^^^ meant to be a PM rather than a post by any chance?

No, it was a response to this request by concretecamper in this open discussion. "Do you remember the source of either one?"

I like helping people.