Carrying lethal weapons for self-defense

Shempster

ImJustMe
Supporter
Dec 28, 2014
1,560
786
✟258,881.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I am seeing a growing movement in the church. People carrying loaded handguns around.
Even in church. It is very puzzling to me.
I cannot see after reading the sermon on the mount and the beatitudes that God would ever approve of this.

I understand the concept of self protection if someone attacks your spouse or child, I get that. But upon asking gun-carrying friends how they see it as ok, they give examples of how God often "blasted away" His enemies. One guy plucked out the verse where Yeshua told his disciples that that had better go get a sword if they don't have one.
They also say that killing others with a handgun is probably OK because they are GUILTY, whereas killing a baby is wrong because they are innocent. I still don't get it.

Many feel like if they are in a public place and someone tries to rob a store or something that it is THEIR DUTY to pull out a gun and start shooting.

Personally I think that we do not have the right to execute others with our own hands.
It is a trick to get us to agree with murder and maybe even do it.
Remember, you can't take away bullets. Once you shoot someone you cannot take it back.
In all likelihood, you will end up being hated by many like in the case of George Zimmerman. Whether or not it was legit to shoot, his life is OVER. He cannot get a real job and live a normal life.

If you are a gun carrier, I beg you to think this through. Pray about it. Read the words of Yeshua. Then put it back under the bed or whatever. I do not want to be in a resturaunt and have some un-trained civilian blasting off rounds with my family there.
Yes, there have been times where mass shootings occur, but don't you think your God is big enough to protect you?
 

High Fidelity

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 9, 2014
24,258
10,276
✟896,801.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Private
It isn't legal to carry a firearm in public or own one for self-defence here in the UK but I must admit if I lived in the US I'd certainly keep a firearm on my person, especially if I had a girlfriend/wife and family to protect.

I do agree that a lot of people are far too blasé about the prospect of killing someone whether they're guilty or not. I don't know which university it was but there was a study that showed you're more likely to be shot in a home invasion scenario if you are armed yourself, so the false sense of security it gives people is also something perhaps worth addressing.

It's a difficult situation, though. A great many people are American before they are Christian and in situations like that there's never going to be chance of concession on their behalf because to them, the right to bear arms is God-given(something I've always found laughable considering the 13th came what, 70 years after the 2nd... but anyway), so it's a lost cause really.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Shane R
Upvote 0

gym_class_hero

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2016
839
966
state of grace
✟122,069.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
"Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. "

if those poor souls in Charleston had been armed, maybe lives would have been saved. I don't carry a gun, but understand why some people do. What if a police officer is a Christian..should he not carry a gun?
 
Upvote 0

Darkhorse

just horsing around
Aug 10, 2005
10,078
3,977
mid-Atlantic
Visit site
✟288,141.00
Country
United States
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I carry a gun (legally) almost everywhere (including church), and I'm not the only armed person there.

If you wonder why, Charleston is only one of many church attacks, and they can be expected to grow, for reasons which should be obvious...and that DOESN'T include peaceful, law-abiding, mentally-stable, permitted civilians carrying guns. We are not the problem.

God gave us intelligence (part of making us in His image) to evaluate risks and devise means to counter those risks. Should we not use seatbelts, fire extinguishers, locks, alarms, and flotation vests and instead mindlessly "depend on God" to protect us?
 
Upvote 0

High Fidelity

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 9, 2014
24,258
10,276
✟896,801.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Private
"Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. "

if those poor souls in Charleston had been armed, maybe lives would have been saved. I don't carry a gun, but understand why some people do. What if a police officer is a Christian..should he not carry a gun?

That's different. Police officers are part of the government and the government is the sword.
 
Upvote 0

NothingIsImpossible

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2015
5,615
3,254
✟274,922.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Theres nothing wrong with carrying a gun. Legally of course. God knows you don't want to hurt someone unless you have no choice. And God is not against self defense. And technically people say guns kill, but they don't actually. If you aim for the hear or certain organs you can kill. If you shoot someone in the leg or arm, they don't die. Which is my reasoning. When I buy a gun I don't want to kill unless I have no choice. I'd rather shoot someone in the leg so they can't go anywhere so the cops can arrest them.
 
Upvote 0

Winken

Heimat
Supporter
Sep 24, 2010
5,709
3,505
✟168,847.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I "packed" for over 50 years, on my person, in our home, and in our cars........and yes, in meetings of our local Christian assembly. I never felt uncomfortable doing it. I was carefully trained and licensed. I don't carry now because of my age, slower reaction times, slower decision-making skills. Just a thought.

(But I do carry a heavy metal slapper enclosed in thick leather.)
 
Upvote 0

High Fidelity

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 9, 2014
24,258
10,276
✟896,801.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Private
I "packed" for over 50 years, on my person, in our home, and in our cars........and yes, in meetings of our local Christian assembly. I never felt uncomfortable doing it. I was carefully trained and licensed. I don't carry now because of my age, slower reaction times, slower decision-making skills. Just a thought.

(But I do carry a heavy metal slapper enclosed in thick leather.)

Thank you for being honest and responsible. Sometimes having to give something up isn't easy even if it's the right thing for the person at the time.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,119
20,158
US
✟1,440,434.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Theres nothing wrong with carrying a gun. Legally of course. God knows you don't want to hurt someone unless you have no choice. And God is not against self defense. And technically people say guns kill, but they don't actually. If you aim for the hear or certain organs you can kill. If you shoot someone in the leg or arm, they don't die. Which is my reasoning. When I buy a gun I don't want to kill unless I have no choice. I'd rather shoot someone in the leg so they can't go anywhere so the cops can arrest them.

Deliberately striking an offender in an extremity in combat is nearly impossible even for a highly trained person. It's a very small target that will be moving very quickly compared to the torso.

Moreover, a bullet striking an extremity is certain to pass through with enough force to penetrate walls and go on to kill others. And on top of that, it is unlikely to stop the offender.

If shooting in self-defense is truly necessary, that means aiming at the torso--the least likely target to miss and the most likely to be effective and least harmful to others--is also necessary.
 
Upvote 0

Tallguy88

We shall see the King when he comes!
Supporter
Jan 13, 2009
32,459
7,737
Parts Unknown
✟240,396.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Deliberately striking an offender in an extremity in combat is nearly impossible even for a highly trained person. It's a very small target that will be moving very quickly compared to the torso.

Moreover, a bullet striking an extremity is certain to pass through with enough force to penetrate walls and go on to kill others. And on top of that, it is unlikely to stop the offender.

If shooting in self-defense is truly necessary, that means aiming at the torso--the least likely target to miss and the most likely to be effective and least harmful to others--is also necessary.
Center of mass.

When I was doing my CCHL class, the cop that was teaching it told a story of another cop and a bad guy who had a shootout, they were on opposite sides of the car, both emptied full magazines at each other, and neither hit the other. Point was that it's harder to hit your target than the movies make it out to be, especially under extreme stress.
 
Upvote 0

ken777

"to live is Christ, and to die is gain"
Aug 6, 2007
2,245
661
Australia
✟48,308.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
  • Like
Reactions: Darkhorse
Upvote 0

expos4ever

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2008
10,592
5,732
Montreal, Quebec
✟248,004.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
God gave us intelligence (part of making us in His image) to evaluate risks and devise means to counter those risks.
Indeed, but I suggest that in every free country except the United States, that "intelligence" has enabled people to see the foolhardiness of an armed citizenry.
 
  • Optimistic
Reactions: Shane R
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

KWCrazy

Newbie
Apr 13, 2009
7,229
1,993
Bowling Green, KY
✟82,877.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
The Lord made ,me the steward of my wife and grandchildren.
Given the choice, I'd rather die than have to take a life. However, if someone threatens my family I'll use whatever force is necessary to protect them. If I have to kill, I'll kill, but I WILL protect them with my life.
 
Upvote 0

NothingIsImpossible

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2015
5,615
3,254
✟274,922.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I live in Australia so never carry a weapon. Wondering why many Americans do, I googled and came across this
1,000 mass shootings in 1,260 days: this is what America's gun crisis looks like

If this is true, I think I would feel obliged to carry a gun.
To be fair I seen South Korean people say the same thing. They didn't understand the crazy numbers. But I reminded them America has 317 million people. South Korea has 50 million, Australia has 23 million. So obviously we will have more gun violence since there is more people. The biggest problem here in America is our gun laws aren't strict enough. People can still buy them illegally online or on the street. And many who get them legally don't keep them locked up safely, so someone else ends up using it and killing someone or themselves.

I think for now we can't do much since if you told america no more guns, odds are to many would kill anyone who tried to take their guns. Guns mean freedom, but it also means violence. Though I also like to say if you remove all guns from america, people will just use other things whether it be a car, acid, fists, knives....etc.
 
Upvote 0

ken777

"to live is Christ, and to die is gain"
Aug 6, 2007
2,245
661
Australia
✟48,308.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
To be fair I seen South Korean people say the same thing. They didn't understand the crazy numbers. But I reminded them America has 317 million people. South Korea has 50 million, Australia has 23 million. So obviously we will have more gun violence since there is more people. The biggest problem here in America is our gun laws aren't strict enough. People can still buy them illegally online or on the street. And many who get them legally don't keep them locked up safely, so someone else ends up using it and killing someone or themselves.

I think for now we can't do much since if you told america no more guns, odds are to many would kill anyone who tried to take their guns. Guns mean freedom, but it also means violence. Though I also like to say if you remove all guns from america, people will just use other things whether it be a car, acid, fists, knives....etc.
You are right about population of course, but I think it might be where the population is. America has many large cities, and cities tend to breed violence.
Also your history was very different to ours. We both ousted the native people but yours fought back while ours were less organized and easy prey to the white invasion. Guns for defence were an important part of your history but not so much here.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Darkhorse
Upvote 0

NothingIsImpossible

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2015
5,615
3,254
✟274,922.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You are right about population of course, but I think it might be where the population is. America has many large cities, and cities tend to breed violence.
Also your history was very different to ours. We both ousted the native people but yours fought back while ours were less organized and easy prey to the white invasion. Guns for defence were an important part of your history but not so much here.
That is very true. When you look at how our cities expand since the beginning. The urban cores are for the wealthy. Then they move to outside and create suburbs and the not so rich stay in the urban areas. Eventually the rich move out from the suburbs into the "county (emptyish lands) and the not so rich move into those suburbs. And the poor stay in the urban areas. Its like a ripple affect that spreads out from the cities. You can even see it in timelines showing pictures of the cities expanding.

So yes, the big cities have violence issues sadly. We seem to be one of the few countries that grows our cities like this.

I have to say I am always impressed that Australia went from basically a giant penal colony to what it is today. Its a very amazing place that shows it doesn't matter your roots. Though some still choose to harass Australia and claim its a country of criminals. Maybe they are just jealous. I have family in Brisbane who came from Italy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ken777
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums